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Martial Arts

sounds like you just dont have that good of a teacher. imo any teacher who doesnt teach you to be as lethal as you can be is diluting the art and mis training you. prolly also a school that gives more a shit about the color of belt youre wearing than your actual skill level.

ive never had anything made easier by my teachers, in fact, if they feel something is too easy, they just make it harder and more painful. yesterday all these parents came in to check out the school, so this one teacher (a young female half my size) asked me to spar with her so she could show the parents what to expect their kids to go through. i have a series of bruises up the right side of my leg, i cant even fuck my gf my hips are so beat up, my jaw got cracked and i cant even open my mouth properly, and both my fore arms are bruised up from my hapless attempt at blocking. this took her about 7 seconds to do to me, and that was her being nice and being soft. most of the parents got up and left without even saying a word, because that is real kung fu training. im also at a level where im not allowed to show pain, wince, admit i am too hurt to fight back, etc. i simply maintain a stoical face, say "thank you, ma'am" and walk off the floor in a graceful manner.

so, if youre teacher says, "do this in a way that wont hurt someone," youre not learning martial arts. youre learning something that looks like martial arts to an outsider, and thats all.

we have one mantra at our school, "deadly serious." anyone who does not respect the 'deadly serious' attitude is forced to just do knuckle pushups till their hands bleed, or leaves the school. its not 'fun' and its extremely painful, but thats the difference between someone with a warrior's discipline and someone that wants to look like a ninja from the movies.
 
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^That's what I was afraid of to be honest. Luckily I only signed a 1 month commitment.

I had a better teacher in the parking lot at my college who taught me for free or perhaps for a smoke-up.

You live the Big Apple so you have lots and lots to choose from, but I don't exactly know what to look for in a quality dojo.

Do you have to learn kata in your dojo? I really don't like doing kata. Especially after reading the Tao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee and how he shuns preconceived movements and forms.
 
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ahh, but this is the thing: theres only 2-3 schools worth going to in all of NYC, in my opinion.

I went around and interviewed at about 9 diff schools this summer, knowing absolutely nothing about martial arts.

the very last school i was at was the one i chose. i diddnt know it at the time, but there was something about the master's manner when speaking to me that made me join. no salesmenship, in fact, he diddnt even seem to care if i joined or not, and in some ways, was trying to talk me out of it or make me second guess joining.

we dont use belts. we learn traditional chinese martial arts, and rank is based on amount of time invested in the art. we have everything form 2 week students to 11 year students, masters to newbies. theres some 8 year old kids in my school that im convinced could kick the shit out of me.

as for the other schools i interviewed at, well, again, i diddnt know it at the time, but they just diddnt feel right. looking back, they all struck me as a place for parents to dump their teenage kid off after school so they can play 3 ninjas until dinnertime. this is very apparent when our "yellow/green belts" destroy other schools black/brown belts in tournaments.

im not trying to brag about "my school." im simply discussing that in the west, rarely do you find a genuine martial arts school. almost always you do find something that looks like martial arts, but has no real application in warfare.


FYI we have mad respect for the 'country' people - that is, people from upstate NY, PA, new england, etc, cuz all those fighters do is TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN. I am told that you tend to see better martial arts in tournaments in Eastern PA than in NYC. I dont have enough experience to give an opinion on my own on that matter.
 
did you specifically look for Kung Fu or were you open to training in whatever dojo appealed to you the most? The more I read up on Kung Fu the more I want that to be my style.
I didn't interview dojos like I probably should have, I just went with the ones that were closer to my home.
 
eh, gotta say, i picked kung fu cuz it looked the coolest to me. again, mind that i started martial arts with 0 real knowledge of martial arts. everyone i know that did tae kwan do was a pussy, so i just assumed it was for wankers. when i was 15, i kicked the shit out of a black belt in karate in a street fight (he diddnt touch me once). so, i was kinda biased against those two, and juijitsu just diddnt look 'cool' to me.

so knowing what i know now, id never, ever utter such disgraceful and challenging remarks. but at the time, like i said, kung fu just 'looked cool.'

keep in mind there are hundreds of styles of kung fu. some are extremely different from each other. some are better for certain body types, some are designed for universal body type. some will make you quite defensible in a street fight very quickly, some may take many months before you can take it out on the streets.

If youre reading a lot about kung fu, its highly likely youve read a lot about some breed of Shaolin kung fu. Its most popularized in the modern media, but certainly not the only style of chinese martial art. There is a Wing Chun school, contemporary wushu school, and a Shaolin southern style school all within the same 5 block radius in my neighborhood, all of these are chinese but all of these are very very different styles. There is nothing wrong with doing a month at a few different schools to see which suits you best; its your journey, approach the top from whatever path you wish.

i have a friend who trains at an MMA school near my kung fu school. He has been there 3 weeks, is already a yellow belt, and is convinced he can disarm anyone with a knife or a gun. I surely hope he does not learn the hard way.

How good your martial arts is = how much you train, period.
 
also gotta quote that new Ip Man movie, "you already have everything you need to beat me." Some people say Wing Chun is for little girls, id advise them to watch that movie and remember its based on the real deal (he was Bruce Lee's teacher).

Meaning, ultimately, no one style is better than another - its all about how much you train, how well you are conditioned to fight, and how well you can maintain attention to the here and now of combat.
 
That's the thing. I'm very self motivated to train, but I have no good direction, and the fact that it's apparent that I have a less than adequate dojo right now isn't helping matters. I think something about being a former addict and now I'm moving on with my life just makes me that much more motivated.

I would be in the gym nearly every day, but I know that lifting weights can be detrimental to martial arts if you don't know exactly how to train. So I'm just dong some body weight conditioning, and shadow boxing with resistance bands in addition to running. I also recently added parkour training to my routine.

I have to say that I am a jazz guitarist first and foremost, and I think the way of thinking that comes with playing improvised music really helps me stay mentally flexible and very much in the "here and now." When you are playing along with a band you could play for 15 minutes and not know whatsoever where the jam is going, but if you listen closely and intently you can react skillfully and never lose the groove. Some of the people I used to spar with last year were also jazz musicians. Those were the guys who would spar with me and teach me lots of good lessons about the martial arts in the parking lot of my college.
 
Yeah, i think alot of places ARE just 'baby sitters' for alot of parents. Kind of sad really, that martial arts are being ruined by spoiled brats and retards who want to make money off it.

Oh and 'the closest to my home' definitly wont be the best.. well, most likely not. You should explore any that are in range of what you are comfortable traveling(ie 45mins).
 
Coffee: train hard. become the best student in your school. then write to nearby schools, tell them of your endeavors, and how youre looking for a more challenging environment. perhaps you will see some answers pointing you the right way.

perhaps this is also a message from the universe, telling you that you are fated to become a great martial arts master, and must leave your local area in order to discover this.

/queues intro credits...
 
omg ive finally worked up in our system enough to understand conditioning!

today i had to just get punched in the rib cage, punched in the head, punched in the hip bones... good lord i cant even lift my bong to my face right now...

im told i take punches worse than the 14 year olds in my school :-/ that was enough motivation for me to stand right back up and get knocked right back down.
 
went to my first martial arts tournament this weekend

was a karate tournament, but open to all martial arts. mostly was karate schools competing, but a couple tae kwan do and some other styles i diddnt know. ours was the only kung fu school.

i took 2nd place for adult male forms (beginner)

2nd place for adult male sparring (beginner)

trophy pics forthcoming!

it was funny, i really saw the differences in how schools train by watching people fight. tis a shame it wasnt continuous sparring, we wouldve shown the karate kids a whole new definition of pain >:-D
 
so I'm doing lots of out of dojo training both in the gym and in my basement, and I have no time to sit through those lame ass classes anymore.
I scheduled a 1 on 1 lesson with a black belt for once a week. I'm hoping this is a better situation. I know I would progress much faster if I get to actually spar against a skilled fighter rather than just do the "requirements" for advancing a belt level, which I have no interest in. We'll see this friday how this new arrangement goes.
 
thats an excellent attitude, that school you describe sounds pretty westernized.
i hope for your sake hes a total dick and doesnt give you a second to rest.

im starting to realize how lazy i really am. actually over all, that scene in the matrix where morpheus has the plaque on his wall that reads "know thyself" in latin is really starting to make more and more sense to me. martial arts provides internal revelations not unlike reflections ive had after psychedelic drugs.
 
I can imagine getting told you take hits worse than a 12 year old would be a pretty big realization lol


congratulations on the ranking in the tournament! What was the style of the 1st place winner?
 
I have studied Karate, Taekwondo, Judo, and Boxing from the age of 4 until almost present.

I grew tired of them all, kind of where I seen the barriers "You can't strike like this even if it is more effective" or "keep this stance even if your body is not comfortable holding it". Therefore I have been researching many new styles of martial arts to widen my horizons.

My first step was incorporating everything I was taught into one simplified training system, I took all of my favorite workouts, strikes, sweeps and throws [ridding of anything too complex or ineffective] along with some useful hand to hand combat skills from the military.

My next step was to research Jeet Kune Do, a style I have been obsessed with for many years. I have gotten my hands on a Jeet Kune Do training routine which I am adding to my daily workout as well.

Not sure what else I will do with this but I have lots of time to think as I am recovering from a heart condition and can't exercise at a benefiting rate yet.
 
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Jeet Kune Do outline

NSFW:
Jeet Kune Do (JKD) is the name Bruce Lee gave to his combat philosophy in 1967. Originally, when Lee first began research into fighting styles, he gave his martial art his own name of Jun Fan Gung Fu. JKD as it survives today – if one wants to view it "refined" as a product, not a process – is what was left at the time of Bruce Lee's death. It is the result of the life-long martial arts development process Lee went through. Bruce Lee stated that his concept is not an "adding to" of more and more things on top of each other to form a system, but rather, a winnowing out. The metaphor Lee borrowed from Chan Buddhism was of constantly filling a cup with water, and then emptying it, used for describing Lee's philosophy of "casting off what is useless". He also used the sculptor's mentality of beginning with a lump of clay and hacking away at the "unessentials"; the end result was what he considered to be the bare combat essentials, or JKD.

Bruce Lee, and thus JKD, was heavily influenced by Western boxing and fencing. Although the backbone concepts (such as centerline, vertical punching, and forward pressure) come from Wing Chun, Lee stopped using the Wing Chun stances in favor of what he claimed were more fluid/flexible fencing and boxing stances. The claim is that they allowed him to "flow", not to be stuck in stances. For instance, instead of using footwork to position the body for maximum fighting position vis-a-vis the opponent, JKD uses flowing "entries" that do not require "bridges" from Wing Chun. Bruce Lee wanted to create a martial art that was unbounded and free. Later during the development of Jeet Kune Do, he would expand that notion and include the art for personal development, not just to become a better fighter. To illustrate Lee's views, in a 1971 Black Belt Magazine article, Lee said "Let it be understood once and for all that I have NOT invented a new style, composite or modification. I have in no way set Jeet Kune Do within a distinct form governed by laws that distinguish it from 'this' style or 'that' method. On the contrary, I hope to free my comrades from bondage to styles, patterns and doctrines."

While practicing Western wrestling, Lee was once pinned by a more skillful opponent, who asked what Lee would do if he found himself in the situation in a real fight. Lee replied, "Well, I'd bite you, of course". One of the theories of JKD is that a fighter should do whatever is necessary to defend himself, regardless of where the techniques used come from. Lee's goal in Jeet Kune Do was to break down what he claimed were limiting factors in the training of the traditional styles, and seek a fighting thesis which he believed could only be found within the event of a fight. Jeet Kune Do is currently seen as the genesis of the modern state of hybrid martial arts.

Jeet Kune Do not only advocates the combination of aspects of different styles, it also has to change many of those aspects that it adopts to suit the abilities of the practitioner. Additionally, JKD advocates that any practitioner be allowed to interpret techniques for themselves, and change them for their own purposes. For example, Lee almost always chose to put his power hand in the "lead," with his weaker hand back, within this stance he used elements of Boxing, Fencing and Wing Chun. Just like fencing, he labeled this position the "On Guard" position. Lee incorporated this position into his JKD, as he felt it provided the best overall mobility. Lee felt that the dominant or strongest hand should be in the lead because it would perform a greater percentage of the work. Lee minimized the use of other stances except when circumstances warranted such actions. Although the On-Guard position is a good overall stance, it is by no means the only one. Lee acknowledged that there were times when other positions should be utilized.

Lee felt the dynamic property of JKD was what enabled its practitioners to adapt to the constant changes and fluctuations of live combat. Lee believed that these decisions should be done within the context of "real combat" and/or "all out sparring". He believed that it was only in this environment that a person could actually deem a technique worthy of adoption.

Bruce Lee did not stress the memorization of solo training forms or "Kata", as most traditional styles do in their beginning-level training. Lee often compared doing forms without an opponent to attempting to learn to swim on dry land. Lee believed that "real" combat was "alive" and "dynamic". Circumstances in a fight change from millisecond to millisecond, and thus pre-arranged patterns and techniques are not adequate in dealing with such a changing situation. As an anecdote to this thinking, Lee once wrote an epitaph which read: 'In memory of a once fluid man, crammed and distorted by the classical mess.' The "classical mess" in this instance was what Lee thought of classical martial arts.

Bruce Lee's comments and methods were seen as controversial by many in his time, and still are today. Many teachers from traditional schools disagreed with his opinions on these issues.

The notion of cross-training in Jeet Kune Do is similar to the practice of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) in modern times -- Bruce Lee has been considered by UFC president Dana White as the "father of mixed martial arts". Many consider Jeet Kune Do to be the precursor of MMA. This is particularly the case with respect to the JKD "Combat Ranges". A JKD student is expected to learn various combat systems within each combat range, and thus to be effective in all of them, just as in MMA.

Jeet Kune Do Principles

The following are principles that Lee incorporated into Jeet Kune Do. He felt these were universal combat truths that were self evident and would lead to combat success if followed. The "4 Combat Ranges" in particular are what he felt were instrumental in becoming a "total" martial artist. This is also the principle most related to mixed martial arts. JKD practitioners also subscribe to the notion that the best defense is a strong offense, hence the principal of "Intercepting". Lee believed that in order for an opponent to attack someone they had to move towards them. This provided an opportunity to "intercept" that attack or movement. The principal of interception covers more than just intercepting physical attacks. Lee believed that many non-verbals and telegraphs (subtle movements that an opponent is unaware of) could be perceived or "intercepted" and thus be used to one's advantage. The "5 Ways of Attack" are attacking categories that help Jeet Kune Do practitioners organize their fighting repertoire and comprise the offensive portion of JKD. The concepts of Stop hits & stop kicks and simultaneous parrying & punching were borrowed from western Fencing and comprise the defensive portion of JKD. These concepts were modified for unarmed combat and implemented into the JKD framework by Lee. These concepts also compliment the other principal of interception.

I. Be like water

Lee believed that martial systems should be as flexible as possible. He often used water as an analogy for describing why flexibility is a desired trait in martial arts. Water is infinitely flexible. It can be seen through, and yet at other times it can obscure things from sight. It can split and go around things, rejoining on the other side, or it can crash through things. It can erode the hardest rocks by gently lapping away at them or it can flow past the tiniest pebble. Lee believed that a martial system should have these attributes. JKD students reject traditional systems of training, fighting styles and the Confucian pedagogy used in traditional kung fu schools because of this lack of flexibility. JKD is claimed to be a dynamic concept that is forever changing, thus being extremely flexible. "Absorb what is useful; Disregard that which is useless" is an often quoted Bruce Lee maxim. JKD students are encouraged to study every form of combat possible. This is believed to expand one's knowledge of other fighting systems; to both add to one's arsenal as well as to know how to defend against such tactics.

II. Economy of motion

JKD students are told to waste no time or movement. When it comes to combat JKD practitioners believe the simplest things work best.

A. Stop hits & stop kicks

This means intercepting an opponent's attack with an attack of your own instead of a simple block. JKD practitioners believe that this is the most difficult defensive skill to develop. This strategy can be a feature of some traditional Chinese martial arts.

B. Simultaneous parrying & punching

When confronting an incoming attack; the attack is parried or deflected and a counter attack is delivered at the same time. Not as advanced as a stop hit but more effective than blocking and counter attacking in sequence. This is also practiced by some Chinese martial arts.

C. No high kicks

JKD practitioners believe they should target their kicks to their opponent's shins, knees, thighs, and mid section. These targets are the closest to the foot, provide more stability and are more difficult to defend against. However, as with all other JKD principles nothing is "written in stone". If a target of opportunity presents itself; even a target above the waist one could take advantage of the situation without feeling hampered by this principle.

III. Learn the 4 ranges of combat

* Kicking
* Punching
* Trapping
* Grappling

Jeet Kune Do students train in each of these ranges equally. According to Lee, this range of training serves to differentiate JKD from other martial arts. Lee stated that most but not all traditional martial systems specialize in training at one or two ranges. Bruce Lee's theories have been especially influential and substantiated in the field of Mixed Martial Arts, as the MMA Phases of Combat are essentially the same concept as the JKD combat ranges.

IV. Five Ways Of Attack

A. Single Angular Attack (SAA) and its converse Single Direct Attack (SDA).

B. Hand Immobilization Attack (HIA) and its counterpart Foot Immobilization attack, which make use of “trapping” to limit the opponent to function with that appendage.

C. Progressive Indirect Attack (PIA). Attacking one part of the opponent's body followed by attacking another part as a means of creating an opening.

D. Attack By Combinations (ABC). This is using multiple rapid attacks as a means of using volume of attack to overcoming the opponent.

E. Attack By Drawing (ABD). This is creating an opening with positioning as a means of counter attacking.

V. Three Parts of JKD

Jeet Kune Do practitioners believe that techniques should contain the following properties:

* Efficiency - An attack that reaches its mark
* Directness - Doing what comes naturally in a learned way.
* Simplicity - Thinking in an uncomplicated manner; without ornamentation.


Edit:
I did not write this, This information came from completemartialarts.com
 
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How good your martial arts is = how much you train, period.

well im not sure about the "period"
as you said earlier "...unless someone has formally instructed you how to..."
i would say its half technique, half training

and im happy to see you found what seems to be a good school for you (n congrats on that tournament )
((and that school provide the technique so yeah at that point, for you, " how much you train" is whats left))



but thats not what i wanted to say, i was gonna mention that kung fu pretty much means what you said there, it means hard work

and ill leave it to wiki to say more :
In its original meaning, kung fu can refer to any skill. Gōngfu (功夫) is a compound of two words, combining 功 (gōng) meaning "achievement" or "merit", and 夫 (fū) which translates into "man", so that a literal rendering would be "human achievement". Its connotation is that of an accomplishment arrived at by great effort.

In Mandarin, when two "first tone" words such as gōng and fū are combined, the second word often takes a neutral tone, in this case forming gōngfu.

Originally, to practice kung fu did not just mean to practice Chinese martial arts. Instead, it referred to the process of one's training - the strengthening of the body and the mind, the learning and the perfection of one's skills - rather than to what was being trained. It refers to excellence achieved through long practice in any endeavor. You can say that a person's kung fu is good in cooking, or that someone has kung fu in calligraphy; saying that a person possesses kung fu in an area implies skill in that area, which they have worked hard to develop. Someone with "bad kung fu" simply has not put enough time and effort into training, or seems to lack the motivation to do so. Kung fu is also a name used for the elaborate Fujian tea ceremony (Kung-fu cha).
 
^^ that-strange-guy thanks for the info on jeet kune do! Interesting stuff. The principles behind it seem pretty similar to krav maga (economy of motion, simultaneous blocking and attacks, practical combat (i.e. stuff you wouldn't find in a ring like biting) etc). I could be wrong though; I'm a bit of a MA newbie :)
 
^^ that-strange-guy thanks for the info on jeet kune do! Interesting stuff. The principles behind it seem pretty similar to krav maga (economy of motion, simultaneous blocking and attacks, practical combat (i.e. stuff you wouldn't find in a ring like biting) etc). I could be wrong though; I'm a bit of a MA newbie :)

Jeet Kune Do isn't about fighting dirty its simply the easiest way to win a fight in any situation.
 
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