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Mark of the beast :Agnostic's take

I like to think that technology is making government much more transparent and much less secretive. For every "evil government computer programmer" there are people like Julian Assange or whatever the Wikileaks guy name is. The government will never be able to have a completely complacent population because of how easy information can be accessed. Sure, the government can try and censor the internet but they also tried to criminalize drug use. Look how successful that was.

China is a good example of how you can't censor information. Even though they have one of the most censored societies there are still pro democracy rallies. A super computer or big brother government that can completely control the actions of human beings is just a pipe dream.

I agree with Chinup and say that if there is a "beast" then it is us.

You say the internet is being used more of a tool to keep us down when I believe that the internet is helping us all progress. There is so much information at the tips of your fingers.

Bucklecroft do you think books are negatives? The internet has been the biggest leap in communication since written symbolic language.
 
Problem is C&S that at the moment these technologies have the potential to aid humanity. Make no mistake the internet and freedom of speech are temporary graces. Eventually the government will begin to monitor individual connections, censoring sites - programs like Tor will be outlawed and possession will be a crime. The drug war only continues because the government allows it to. If politicians wanted to win the war they have all the tools they need. They allow it to go on because its politics - war is essential for any government.

The beast being humanity makes sense from a pure philosophical perspective absolutely. In the context of revelation - i'd say no the beast is seperate from humanity. However humanity takes on the image of this beast figure in the myth/prophecy.

Freedom of speech and freedom of information is what you describe, but its precarious.A free internet is not something that will continue for much longer. People wont think twice about censoring the internet to block child porn and sites like Bluelight. Only a matter of time - unless people start excercising their rights as a collective.

Noone mentioned a controlling computer either lol I certainly didnt. Monitoring people's thoughts is an inevitability. Eventually technology will advance to the point that it wil lbecome possible. Once it does im certain that again eventually the government will use it in crime prevention.

What im saying is that a few decades or centuries down the line and the scenarios I describe will become far more realistic and less fantastic. Were thinking of the future here more than anything. Basically in the future we'll have the means to create utopia or dystopia. Tech will be the means but what of the end?
 
Ok, I certainly have a better understanding and more respect for the point your trying to push across after that last post.

I guess where I disagree is where you have an absolute dichotomous end to humanity. Its almost like your saying we will be capable of either heaven or hell on Earth per se through technology, and that the choice is ours. I've always found ideas of utopias and dystopias as mythical as heaven and hell because they are so grounded in so much subjectivity.

I think technology will, as it always has been, be used for both ethical and unethical purposes. People already exercise their "rights" in small collectives, IE Occupy Wallstreet, Green Peace, ect. The idea that all people will rise up collectively and act in anyone motive is comical. The uniting of all people seems really wonderful and all but it is an IMPOSSIBILITY.
 
Oh absolutely the black and white future is unlikely. I didnt mean to divide the future into heaven or hell however. I meant that in the future both heaven and hell will be in sight. We'll probably settle for something in between or more likely is that we'll have exactly what we have today. For some people earth is hell for others its heaven. The two exist superimposed on one another. In the future we may shift the balance to the earth being inhospitable for many while an even smaller percentage of people live in paradise.
The point I made (badly lol) was that for the average worker its highly likely that the future will be fairly dichotomous. Im thinking that society will be stratified leading to reduced quality of life. Or on the other hand we'll manage to purge parliament/congress etc of its corruption and have real political transparency . We will in the future have tools such as terraforming which could transform this barren rock into eden. On the other hand computers might take over and control people's mind ;-)
 
Bucklecroft Rudy said:
I'd differentiate medicine and technology the latter has done more harm than good and its highly likely that in the future if we ever have full scale war some madman will shit a bomb from a great height making the planet uninhabitable.
Weve been holding out for the last century for technology to make us happy and it hasnt yet and I doubt if it ever will.
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you never know how much harm drugs are doing. this is only the beginning of the age of chemistry and we are the first generation to experience it. perhaps all these medically prescribed drugs could have dire consequences in store for us down the road. for instance, its my theory that a mother doing a stimulant can alter her child's dna in such a way that would give him add. this is just my theory and im not implying add is bad or anything but something similar could branch off from any given drug. antibiotics could create super infections that are highly contagious and cause an epidemic. you never know what the future has in store, i just wish i could live alot longer to see and find out.

if you're thinking that technology hinders on our daily lives, just wait 2 generations when we have 256 bit processors out, capable of anything your mind could ever fathom.
 
True for instance scientists only recently discovered that opiates can cause brain damage due to reduced oxygen flow in the nod. Then there are the mechanisms of tolerance and addiction which doctors still are clueless about. We still arent even certain exactly how opiates work. They trigger the Mu receptor inhibit GABA stimulate Dopamine and switch off the Adrenaline producing centers, other than that we're in the dark and we have no specifics.
Opiates are millennia old so consider drugs like Cocaine and MDMA which are just over a century/40-50 years old respectively. We cant know how much damage is being done
 
Bucklecroft Rudy said:
Africa:Developed Africa draws on western ideals and systems of government due to globalisation
Middle East:Military presence is destabalising the region, but America is in a position to install a puppet government if it so chooses, given the current lack of an administration
Israel:Relationship between America and Israel is fascinating to watch, there is clearly an antagonistic bond between the two
Europe:Western
China:Antagonistic but both nations cooperate - for now
Russia:Plenty of troubling rumours and vague echoes of the soviet past

What we see is a polarity. Russia China and Brazil are said to be forming a breakaway union from America which would have disastrous consequences but ultimately it would be replacing one corrupt admin with another. The union of these three nations would bring more stability to geopolitcs and pave the way for a smoother east/west dialogue. Overall however the effect would be to further perpetuate western culture. Oriental culture aspires to western ideals in many many ways (why i'll never know since oriental culture in all its subtle variations is far far richer) for example.


What im getting at is that the beast in my interpretation is representative of western society. Whether that representation be a man or government is irrelevant. The globalist agenda is critical since it allows this society to be perpetuated worldwide. Once you have a world which has succumbed to the western way of thinking the geopolitical description in revelation can come about.
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im curious what you or anyone might think of, or if you are familiar with, Sophia Anti-Polis, France.?
excerpt and link bellow

personally, i think this is one of the most "revolutionary" ideas that has been looked past for what-ever reason, for far too long - implementing the Theory behind a "Mythological" story or the idea of a Goddess, to help manifest then as a result ultimately, the Ideology behind Sophia or Isis for example, is to many how the world works...
so, why not try and do so in the form a miniature 'technological-thinkTank-city'.? she does constantly reward with more creative~motivation.
;-)


better late then never though.



Sophia Antipolis is probably the most international spot in the whole of France – 30 000 people from more than 60 countries gathered on some 20 square kilometers, most of them researchers and employees in R&D intensive companies. The University of Nice Sophia Antipolis (UNSA) has a campus in Sophia and there are inumerable high profile educations and institutes in the park, such as Theseus, CERAM and Eurecom.

Sophia Antipolis is something of a hub of the "Telecom Valley", which stretches from Milano in the east to Valencia in the south-west. As the name implies, IT and telecom in general are the basis of the activities in Telecom Valley, and even more so in Sophia Antipolis. Apart from IT and telecom there are several companies doing research in medicine in Sophia Antipolis.

Most companies establishing here choose to place their Research and Development departments in Sophia. One of the obvious reasons is the possibility to collaborate with other companies. One fourth of the activities are being run by international companies - most of them American such as HP, IBM, Texas Instruments, Infineon Technologies, Cisco, Nortel Networks and Accenture. Not to mention all the young IT companies.

Sophia also hosts the European telecom standardization organization, ETSI which plays an important role even for setting the global telecommunication standards. You find both formal and informal networks of professionals in Sophia, something that must be considered very important both for collaborators and competitors. Someone has compared the activities in Sophia with a Trojan horse; through Sophia Antipolis you get a foothold in the often so secluded French market.

Bienvenue à Sophia


http://www.bikupan.se/sophia/sophia.html
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the beast is the christian devil and is as untrue as the christian god.
 
^^
actually, i read in the Bible last night, where it said that the God who created Christ, is the same as the one in the Belly down Below.

there is no Good and Evil out there, just neutrality...our dramas/dualities are not allowed.
(get all it out now!)
 
There are many forms of ignorance really. Not believing on god is not one of them.

I'd love to think that earth is on the middle of some epic struggle between mighty forces of light and darkness, but the reality is that is probably isn't. Life on earth is not a comic book. I don't know why, as humans, we need to grasp onto these extraordinairy dualities, as if our existence, the existence that we are all apart of, isn't awe-inspiring enough.

I do have a certain theistic belief, but it isn't limited by human minds. It isn't about one-or-the-other, its about all things. The beast, or the dark side, is as important as the Light.

That said, I simply don't believe in a personal god. If the christian god existed and is the type to condemn his creations to eternal fire for having sex or even thinking about having sex, then he is neither omnipotent or omniscient.

Portillo said:
The look on your face when you die and realise that the Christian devil is real will be priceless. ;)
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Are you serious?

This view, coming from christianity, is utterly bizarre to me. What is more 'beastly', not believing in a supernatural deity or invoking an eternity of sufferring in flames? The answer is obvious to me. Better to live your life doing good for the sake of it as opposed to doing it from fear of eternal damnation.

Even so; if god does exist, I feel that, in his omnipotence, he will be aware that he has made me flawed and unbelieving and will have to accept me as I will still be gods creature. I'm pretty sure that there is divinity in this life, but I doubt it resides where christians think it does.

In disbelief of god/yahweh, I therefore disbelieve in the Beast. I think it is really quite sad that our society is still so obsessed by christianity.

Either way, end off topic rant...
 
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