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Marijuana Users Safer Drivers - Report By Car Insurance Company Says YES

The night I fucked up my ankle by falling off a roof sneaking out, my friend was out like 2-3 parking lots away waiting for me in his truck. That night was probably the most stoned I've ever been in my life, and he said the same. We smoked a lot of bud, and then we ended up smoking a huge ass resin joint. When we left the dealer's house, we sat in his truck for like 15 minutes because we both thought it was going to be impossible for him to drive. When he started his truck up and took off it was actually really easy for both of us, it felt easier than driving sober because you were so focused on the road.
 
I disagree. Unless you have a medical condition, impariment is impairment. Driving high i feel more likely to zone out or get into a silly accident
 
I disagree. Unless you have a medical condition, impariment is impairment. Driving high i feel more likely to zone out or get into a silly accident

I agree. I run red lights and and have slowed reactions when i drive high. Never will again.
 
I agree. I run red lights and and have slowed reactions when i drive high. Never will again.

It all depends on how high, some people if they aren't really zonked out and have only had a small amount can be far more cautious and considerate drivers.

Still, many people aren't able to judge whether they're too high or not and an insurance company saying that is madness!
 
I disagree. Unless you have a medical condition, impariment is impairment. Driving high i feel more likely to zone out or get into a silly accident

Truth. That's not to say some people aren't genuinely capable of being responsible while impaired, but rules are for everyone so the dimmest bulbs have to be the yardstick by which everyone else gets measured.
 
This one time I was high and I accelerated into the parking lot concrete wall. Nothing too bad. I just herped derped. My car just needed a little fixing was all.
 
According to the biggest meta-study to date, driving under the influence of cannabis (and no other drug) increases risk about 1.8 times.

Drivers with a blood alcohol level of 0.02 BAC have a risk of fatal collision ~4 times greater than sober drivers.

A blood alcohol level of 0.08 BAC increases risk of fatality ~13 times, driving with a BAC of 0.12 increases risk by ~25 times, and a BAC of 0.16 increases risk ~35 times.

Cannabis plus alcohol increases risk by ~23 times.

http://www.wigmoreonalcohol.com/meta-analysis-of-fmvc-risk-at-low-bac/

You've proabbly seen stuff recently in the media, about a significant increase in the number of drivers detected with cannabis in their system in Washington State in the last year, (since cannabis use was legalised).
The data from Washington led to articles like this one- http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest...-arrested-for-DUI-A-record-high-in-Washington

But, as usual, the devil is in the details-
<<< In the past two years, the annual total each year for positive marijuana blood tests in Washington is about 1,000. In 2011, there were 506 tests >5ng. In 2012, there were 609 tests >5ng. Overall impaired driving cases, however, are on pace to hit the annual average of about 20,000.
Based on those data, we find the Christian Science Monitor proclaiming “Pot smokers arrested for DUI: A record high in Washington”. Well, that’s not exactly true. To get a blood test, cops must make a DUI arrest and get a warrant, and in years past, about 1,000 tested positive for THC. But before legalization, all those positive tests – at any amount, not just over 5ng – were evidence used to convict on DUI charges. Now, any test below 5ng is proof a driver was below the legal limit. The 420 tests above the 5ng limit work out to 840 DUIs for the year, below the 1,000 any-amount DUIs of the past. >>> (see third link below for more discussion).

Medical Daily led with similar headlines to CSM, http://www.medicaldaily.com/more-wa...e-pot-following-marijuana-legalization-263633 dramatically misreading the data and falsely describing an increase of x 1.49 (from 1,000 THC positives in a year, to 745 THC positives in six months) as a “threefold increase”.

Neither article mentions that according to Washington State’s Traffic Safety Commission “Target Zero” data for 2013, the fatality rate from incidents involving drunk and/or drug-affected drivers is actually the LOWEST that has been recorded in more than seven years.
Download the quarterly data here;
http://www.wtsc.wa.gov/statistics-reports/crash-data/
So far, the 2013 fatality rate is down 22% for alcohol-related road deaths, and down 30% for other-drug-related road deaths, compared to 2012.

If more people really are driving whilst seriously impaired, why is there no spike in road fatalities?

Well, the most probable reason is that there hasn't been a significant increase in the number of stoned drivers, the data is a product of the fact that police in Washington State have conducted significantly more drug tests in 2013 than in previous years.
But don’t take my word for it- that last piece of information comes from Bob Caulkins, the Media & Community Relations Officer for the Washington State Patrol;
<<< However, the number of tests being ordered has increased, on pace for 180 more than the prior year. It can also be true that cops are more likely to order a blood test in a pot case now. As Caulkins told Huffington Post, “We’re testing blood we didn’t test before.” So do we actually have more stoned drivers on the road or are cops now just better trained and incentivized to go after them? Just because you’re catching more fish doesn’t mean there are more fish; you may just be using a bigger net, fishing longer hours, and picking a better spot to fish.

The real concern isn’t whether there are more drivers caught with THC in their system; that’s not terribly surprising given the state has legalized marijuana. The concern is whether harm has increased. On that front, we see in the various reports that the Washington State Patrol is on pace for their average 20,000 impaired driver stops, so it doesn’t seem like their seeing more impairment on the roads than before. The “on pace” suggests that they’re at about 10,000 stops over six months. So, out of 10,000 stops, cops only felt the need to order a blood test about a quarter of the time and found 420 people over the legal THC limit.

According to Washington State’s Traffic Safety Commission “Target Zero” data for 2013, the state is on pace to record 88 alcohol-related traffic fatalities and 80 drug-related fatalities for the year. Those would be the lowest figures for both for the last five years and a decline of 22% for alcohol and 30% for drugs from 2012. Could it be that greater access to marijuana equals less abuse of alcohol, leading to lower traffic deaths from both?
It is certainly the case that stoned drivers are far better drivers than drunk drivers, but they are also far better than drivers using certain legal prescription medications. According to research published this year in the journal Accident Analysis and Prevention, drivers who tested positive for marijuana had an odds ratio of 1.81:1 of being in a fatal crash compared to a sober (1:1) driver. Those odds were 3.03:1 for narcotics like Vicodin, 3.57:1 for stimulants like Adderall, and 4.83:1 for depressants like Ativan, but each carries a warning on the bottle instructing users not to drive until they know how the medication affects them. None of those drugs carries any per se threshold in a blood test indicating automatic proof of impairment like cannabis and alcohol do. Alcohol comes in with an astounding 13.64:1 odds ratio for a fatal crash, so if some of those drivers are switching to the drug with the 1.81:1 risk, we should all be celebrating… >>>
Click here for some more informed discussion; http://www.theweedblog.com/washington-cops-find-420-stoned-drivers-really/

Of course the same argument was levelled at “medical marijuana” laws, and appears to have been refuted;
<<< States that legalize medical marijuana see fewer fatal car accidents, according to a new study, in part because people may be substituting marijuana smoking for drinking alcohol.

Sixteen states and the District of Columbia, have legalized medical marijuana since the mid-1990s. For the new study, economists looked at 1990-2009 government data on marijuana use and traffic deaths in the 13 states that had passed legalization laws during that time period. The data were from the National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
Comparing traffic deaths over time in states with and without medical marijuana law changes, the researchers found that fatal car wrecks dropped by 9% in states that legalized medical use — which was largely attributable to a decline in drunk driving. The researchers controlled for other factors like changes in driving laws and the number of miles driven that could affect the results.

Medical marijuana laws were not significantly linked with changes in daytime crash rates or those that didn’t involve alcohol. But the rate of fatal crashes in which a driver had consumed any alcohol dropped 12% after medical marijuana was legalized, and crashes involving high levels of alcohol consumption fell 14%.

Read more: Why Medical Marijuana Laws Reduce Traffic Deaths | TIME.com http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/...ana-laws-reduce-traffic-deaths/#ixzz2nh80k53i >>>

Here’s the study that last article is referencing;
http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/c...conomics/research/Documents/Rees_WP_11-05.pdf
<<< Specifically, we find that traffic fatalities fall by nearly 9 percent after the legalization of medical marijuana. >>>

RE: relative risks, alcohol, other drugs, and driving;
Drug use and fatal motor vehicle crashes:
A case-control study.
Guohua Li et al
Accident Analysis and Prevention Sept 2013

<<< ABSTRACT Drugged driving is a serious safety concern, but its role in motor vehicle crashes has not been adequately studied. Using a case-control design, the authors assessed the association between drug use and fatal crash risk. Cases (n=737) were drivers who were involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes in the continental United States during specific time periods in 2007, and controls (n=7719) were participants of the 2007 National Roadside Survey of Alcohol and Drug Use by Drivers. Overall, 31.9% of the cases and 13.7% of the controls tested positive for at least one non-alcohol drug. The estimated odds ratios of fatal crash involvement associated with specific drug categories were 1.83 [95% confidence interval (CI): 1.39, 2.39] for marijuana, 3.03 (95% CI: 2.00, 4.48) for narcotics, 3.57 (95% CI: 2.63, 4.76) for stimulants, and 4.83 (95% CI: 3.18, 7.21) for depressants. Drivers who tested positive for both alcohol and drugs were at substantially heightened risk relative to those using neither alcohol nor drugs (Odds Ratio=23.24; 95% CI: 17.79, 30.28). These results indicate that drug use is associated with a significantly increased risk of fatal crash involvement, particularly when used in combination with alcohol. >>>

Full text available;
http://www.uniad.org.br/desenvolvimento/images/Drug_Use_and_Fatal_MVC_CaseControlStudy.pdf

Drivers who tested positive for cannabis (detected either as actual THC in blood or THC-COOH metabolites in saliva) were found to have a 1.81:1 odds ratio – this equates to roughly an 81% greater chance of a fatal accident. Another way to express this is that a driver’s current cannabis intoxication increases the risk of road fatality by 1.8 times.

The study also examined prescribed pharmaceuticals and illicit drugs in the following classes;

Opioids such as morphine, oxycodone and hydrocodone were found to have an odds ratio of 3.03:1, ( or three times the risk) of fatal crash.

Stimulants such as methamphetamine, dexamphetamine, methylphenidate and phentermine have a 3.57:1 odds ratio, ( >three and a half times the risk)

Benzodiazepines such as valium or alprazolam registered a 4.83:1 risk, (nearly five times the risk).

The study compared these risk levels to alcohol, alone and in combination with other substances;

Alcohol, absent any other drug in the driver’s system, had an odds ratio of 13.64:1 (more than thirteen and a half times the risk of a sober driver).

This risk was even worse in drivers with alcohol and other drugs in their system- averaged over all it was 3.41:1.
Cannabis plus alcohol recorded the highest risk of all- this combination had an odds ratio of 23.24:1.

Just to put these figures into perspective, cannabis alone increased the risk of a fatal collision by 1.8 times.

Drivers with a blood alcohol level of 0.02 BAC have a risk of fatal collision 4 times greater than sober drivers.
(Of course, in Australia we let people with a BAC of up to 0.05 drive on our roads every day).

A blood alcohol level of 0.08 BAC increases risk of fatality 13 times.
(In many US states this is still the legal limit).

A BAC of 0.12 increases risk by 25 times.

A BAC of 0.16 increases risk 35 times.

http://www.wigmoreonalcohol.com/meta-analysis-of-fmvc-risk-at-low-bac/

Alcohol intoxication is responsible for approximately ¼ of all motor vehicle fatalities.

There is an excellent discussion of cannabis, alcohol, and motor vehicle fatalities, including some of the confounders, (such as age and gender), and the uncertainties (eg serum levels of THC are a less effective measure of impairment than blood alcohol levels), here;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

Please be aware that I do not endorse driving under the influence of any psychoactive drug. Except perhaps coffee.
Please be aware that I do endorse and advocate for evidence-based policy.

Regards,
Outrigger.
 
Hmmm... seems some of my brackets have turned into smilies. :?

A section of Washington states Cannabis Legislation (specifically, Part 5 of Initiative 502 http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/i502.pdf ), defines a legal limit for charges of Driving Under the Influence (DUI) of cannabis. The limit is set at 5 nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood ( that's 5 billionth of a gram per mil, 5 ng/mL). The metabolite THC-COOH, also known as carboxy-THC, is explicitly excluded as this metabolite has no psychoactive effect, and may be detected for several days or even weeks after consuming cannabis. However some medical cannabis advocates are concerned that this arbitrarily chosen limit will still lead to DUI convictions for some medicinal cannabis users, who are routinely driving with blood THC levels greater than or equal to 5 ng/mL.

While Blood Alcohol Count is generally a very good measure of significant functional impairment, even in individuals with a high tolerance to the effects of alcohol, blood levels of THC are not as reliable an indicator of impairment. In general the greater the level of THC detected, the greater the detectable impairment on driving ability, however many chronic cannabis users show little or no detectable impairment in driving ability at levels well above 5ng/mL.

There is an excellent discussion of the nuances here;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

<<< Meta-analyses of over 120 studies have found that in general, the higher the estimated concentration of THC in blood, the greater the driving impairment, but that more frequent users of marijuana show less impairment than infrequent users at the same dose, either because of physiological tolerance or learned compensatory behavior. Maximal impairment is found 20 to 40 minutes after smoking, but the impairment has vanished 2.5 hours later, at least in those who smoke 18 mg THC or less (the dose often used experimentally to duplicate a single joint).

With increasing doses of alcohol, however, there is general dose-dependent lowering of both sustained attention and overall attentional capacity, with consequently more concentration paid to the main component of a complex skill (steering, for example), and less and less attention paid to secondary tasks (such as speed or driving skill). Functional imaging on the effects of increasing doses of alcohol up to a BAC of 0.08% in simulated driving has demonstrated that orbitofrontal areas (subsuming judgment) and motor areas are affected first, then cerebellar areas controlling coordination show functional deterioration, and finally, at high doses, global cognitive networks and simulated driving performance are impaired.
Interestingly, three reports indicate that chronic marijuana smokers are less susceptible to impairment from alcohol on some measures compared with nonsmokers or infrequent smokers. As far back as 1970, Reese Jones noticed that alcohol’s effects were diminished in heavy cannabis smokers. A subsequent study showed that regular cannabis smokers demonstrate less of a decrement in peripheral signal detection under the influence of alcohol than do infrequent users, and a later study still found that regular cannabis users given alcohol alone showed less of a decrement in tracking accuracy and dizziness ratings than infrequent users given the same alcohol dose. The reason for this is unclear, but is hypothesized to result from either pharmacological or behavioral cross-tolerance between marijuana and alcohol.
3.2.3 Summary of experimental studies
It appears that cannabis use may impair some driving skills (automatic functions such as tracking) at smoked doses as low as 6.25 mg (a third of a joint), but different skills (complex functions that require conscious control) are not impaired until higher doses, and cannabis users tend to compensate effectively for their deficits by driving more carefully. Unexpected events are still difficult to handle under the influence of marijuana, however, and the combination of low-dose alcohol and low-dose cannabis causes much more impairment than either drug used alone. Alcohol appears to impair tasks requiring cognitive control more than it does automatic functions, whereas marijuana at a comparable dose impairs automatic functions more than those requiring cognitive control. Together, the effects on impairment are additive and may even be synergistic. Chronic marijuana smokers are less impaired by both alcohol and marijuana than would be expected, however. >>>

So, the moral of the tale is threefold-

1- Don’t drive within less than 3 hours or so of smoking cannabis.

2- Don’t drive if you have been drinking and smoking cannabis. In fact don’t drive if you are under the influence of alcohol and/or any other psychoactive drugs.
(Incidentally, regardless of your local traffic laws, you probably shouldn’t use your mobile device or text with your phone while driving either; see http://hfs.sagepub.com/content/48/2/381.abstract ).

3- Finally, if you are a journalist,- Please don’t cherry pick one statistic (eg: quoting n x drivers detected who are positive to THC without examining whether there has been an equivalent increase in n x drivers tested for THC) and then make alarmist assertions that are completely unfounded.

Outrigger.
 
I have had plenty of experience with driving after having partaken of the herb. I have also dealt with driving under the influence of a good amount of alcohol, around 7-8 beers at times...fortunately, have never run into the long arm of the law in either case.

From my own subjective experience, driving under the influence of alcohol is, comparatively, much more difficult than driving while just high.

When I drive on a few beers, I have to be very conscious about what the fuck I'm doing - staying in one lane, paying attention to the lights, etc. When I drive on a few hits, though, I really never feel like I have anything to worry about.

The only caveat I really feel the need to offer about weed is that driving while high can get pretty hard, in a sense, but still not as hard as driving after a few beers, when you just got high after having not smoked for a few months or something along those lines. Then just the newness of getting high again plus having to drive can be pretty fucking annoying, but, still, not that technically difficult to do.

Driving while very high is more than possible - you just have to concentrate. Driving while extremely drunk is only possible if you're talking about driving on subdivision roads out of the way where no one can fucking see you...

I'd take my chances with weed any day.

Then again, I used to cruise all the time in high school with my smoking buddies, so I've had a lot of experience driving high as a motherfucker - not bragging, just saying. I don't think it's a big deal at all, personally. If you can't deal with it, stay the fuck inside.
 
i've seen stoned as motherfuckers driving my car like complete retards, of course very drunk is worse, but at low levels i find i am able to actually drive pretty good after a few drinks ( i lost my license i dont do it anymore) or stimulants, but since weed makes me ultra anxious and shaky and spastic these days, i can say id never attempt it. It was like when i first had oxies and tried driving it was so hard but i was more euphoric than on weed..........my "mates" lately drove my shitbox car stoned and were that dopey they were almost hitting other cars and one wrecked my aerial............hit some bushes
 
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