marijuana and psychosis?

[HeavilySedated]

The problem I have with cannabis induced psychosis discussions, and as others have mentioned, is that people need to understand exactly what psychosis is.
Psychosis appears to happen to certain predisposed people. Those are people who should have been sort of "off" their entire lives. In fact, there are a specific set of latent psychotic traits in people who would most likely go on to develop full blown symptoms. I theorize that psychosis doesn't break, it becomes apparent as a person grows up and is faced with more difficult life situations and challenges. A child exhibiting psychotic symptoms will be written off as having an over-active imagination. When that child becomes an adult, those symptoms cannot be ignored by others.

As someone mentioned, the barrier between sanity and psychosis is called insight. ie, I may (and had) have delusions that I'm god, inanimate objects are out to get me, voices in my head are telling me to do stuff/comment on actions. This can be experienced on drugs, but usually it would take a heavy duty hallucinogenic to bring that out. However, as long as a person does not identify with the delusions, he or she is not going psychotic yet. I have met many schizophrenics and others with delusions, who seem to like talking to people about their delusions. That's their first lack of insight, not understanding that other people cannot experience and identify with them. When I say to them that those are delusions, they become argumentative, defensive, or just wallow up and refuse to go deeper into the conversation. I believe that what separates people with psychosis and non psychotic people is the ability to criticize and analyze ones own train of thought. It has been theorized that psychosis is a result of certain neural pathways misfiring or something.

To sum it up, I don't believe that cannabis can so much induce psychosis as removing inhibitions, allowing a person to act against their learned instinct to hide their symptoms from other people during baseline, non-manic states of mind.

The oft-quoted statistic from anti-drug organisations, that overall 1 percent of the population will ever develop psychotic symptoms against 6 percent of cannabis smokers is simply a bias. I believe that predisposed people are often outsiders, creative people who would be drawn more to drug use, more than the general population.

To the OP, you might have experienced psychosis-like symptoms, but don't take it too seriously. weird things happen when we are high. I wouldn't take it as a warning sign of sorts because you seem to be insightful. Like how people with anxiety are terrified of losing their mind. This is quite far from what actual psychosis is, which is a terrible thing. A truly psychotic person doesn't talk about their symptoms in an objective, medical way.

 

[dez79]

A long post, indeed. But a misinformed comment typically necessitates a lengthier response to correct its many errors and solecism. How long, I do wonder, could I get a biologist to blather if I told him sincerely that dinosaurs do not exist and implored him to prove me wrong.?



Erhm...sort of.



Absolute bullshit.



The route of administration is of no relevance, insofar as cannabis relates to psychosis.



1.) Orally administered cannabis (as in brownies, cookies, and other edible media) is strongly psychedelic and much unlike the smoked or vaporized drug.

2.) What you experienced was a bad trip resulting from little to no prior knowledge of cannabis-infused foodstuffs and, as per your own admission, taking more than your level of tolerance or state of mind could handle.

3.) There are several subtypes of psychosis. None of them are transitory, evanescent events of brief lapses in contact with reality.

4.) Psychoses do not present immediately upon the administration of some drug.

5.) Psychoses are permanent and difficult to treat severe mental illnesses(SMIs). Once the individual has one, they will always have one. There is no cure and remission is only a temporary effect from pharmacotherapy, such as with a tranquilizer for some or barbiturates/benzodiazepines for catatonia.

6.) Psychosis is not defined as merely a "loss of contact with reality" (whatever that means), however complete or incomplete it may or may not be.

7.) If anything, you had a relatively mild and short-lived reaction to the drug known as a brief psychotic episode (as with, say, stimulant psychosis and post-partum depression), which is distinguished from psychosis in a number of ways, and is nothing at all like experiencing an actual psychosis.

8.) Psychotics have what is known as poor "insight". Insight basically means self-awareness; that is, how aware the individual is about their mental disorder. One symptom of psychoses, like schizophrenia, is a profound lack of insight or awareness of their disorder (this poor insight is not always the case. But, assuming I recall correctly, roughly 60% of schizophrenics have almost no insight into their condition.). Some other, unrelated disorders also present with poor insight (such as psychopathy/sociopathy, narcissism, Aspergers, and several others). On the other hand anxiety disorders, say, present with heightened insight: most anxious people don't require a shrink or MD to tell them they're too anxious.

The point is that even if you had some hitherto unheard of drug-induced, ephemeral psychosis you'd still deny it due to lack of insight.

9.) And finally, your experience seems very common. You did, after all, ingest a psychedelic drug. 'Psychedelic' , mind you, is synonymous with 'psychotomimetic', which means 'psychosis mimicking'.

Marijuana has its good therapeutic qualities but to say it doesn't have potential to bring on psychcosis is something a dumb bong head would say , of course it can.

 

[camjua]

I'm a recovering polysubstance abuser... I used to smoke weed daily for years until an unfortunate psilocybin trip that was horrendous (I took wayy too much, was unprepared to what to expect, and a terrible environment with people I hardly knew) and from that day forward weed would trigger nasty panic attacks.. mainly due to paranoia.

Since then, I tried a shit load more drugs in an attempt to self medicate the anxiety disorder and depression triggered by my unfortunate psychedelic experience.. and eventually I tried MDxx drugs.. and on the comedown of a high dose of MDMA I smoked weed and it triggered one of the most intense hallucinogenic experiences I've ever had. I shortly after became a meth addict, and continued smoking weed.

I wouldn't say marijuana triggers psychosis.. but what is indeed interesting is.. since that experience on MDMA.. I constantly hallucinate (Wiggling lines, static, neon colored worms etc.)... and now I haven't used any stimulants in a while (Last time was meth over a month ago).. and whenever I smoke weed the hallucinations definitely intensify.. by quite a bit. Depending on how much I smoke. If I smoke A LOT of weed, my hallucinations can be so distracting it makes driving difficult.. and also the more I smoke the more paranoid I feel often to the point of panic.

I think I can say with confidence that marijuana intensifies my psychosis. It didn't trigger it though... and it doesn't seem to make it worse once I sober up.. my hallucinations are about the same as when I originally quit meth (when sober)..

Dunno if this info helps at all.

 

[Nom de Plume]

Marijuana has its good therapeutic qualities [...]

As do all other substances. As we know, a medicine differs only from a poison in its dosage.

but to say it doesn't have potential to bring on psychcosis sic

To bring on' is not the same as to cause, any more than turning on my cellphone means I created it. This is a necessary distinction you simply failed to make.

Just like how a person's inability to understand this distinction is no more my problem than is their inability to distinguish their anus from a hole in the ground.

[...]something a dumb bong head would say, of course.

Yes, of course. As if you honestly believe I sound to you like more of a "dumb bong head" than you sound to me.

 

[dez79]

Defend ya bong all you want! but I have seen it first hand cause people to become paranoid enough to become psychotic

 

[Mafioso]

ive heard from several different people and websites including a few of my phyciatrists that weed can cause psychosis. Is this a confirmed proven scientific fact, a possibility that hasnt been proven or disproven, or just a myth? also ive never heard anything more specific than just psychosis, which basically just means a warped perception of reality. if it causes psychosis can someone be more specific and clarify what that means? thanks


EDIT: after reading your responses, i started wondering if weed is causing psychosis for me. i never got any hallucinations off weed other than the normal 3-D visions and stuff, but i started mixing weed with adderall a few months ago and had a huge crazy hallucinogenic trip, ill post a link to it. whenever i smoke since then, i see mainly rainbow spirals and tunnels and flashing patterns but sometimes other trippy designs. nothing too big though. i take adderall normally so im always on it when i smoke weed, exept a few times recently when i smoked without taking it for like 2 days, but i got the same effects. i think the combination is hallucinogenic because when my friends are on it they see similar things. im a bit worried though because when im off the adderall and smoke i see the same stuff. i see spirals and flashing patterns when i look at a plain white surface while sober too, but theyre colerless and barely noticeable unless i really focus hard on it. i can kinda control it too, its usually only there when i think about it. i like the hallucinations while high and i dont mind them while sober, but im kinda worried if theyll lead into anything bad.


huge crazy weed and adderall trip report: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ll-hallucinogenic-experience-powerful-visuals

I think that it is widely accepted as scientific fact that heavy use is associated with changes in the brain such as reduced grey matter, changes in the shape of the hippocampus and I think frontal lobe region as well, but don't quote me on that. These are relatively permanent changes in that they don't immediately return to normal with abstinence but do heal over time. There are also fairly new studies coming out that claim that even mild or infrequent use can be associated with changes in the shape of the brain. If you are curious or doubtful you can google search "cannabis changes in the brain reduced grey matter" or similar search queries. Regardless, I think it is undeniable that smoking will affect levels and balance in the brain, as will any psychoactive drug. I've been told by a psychology teacher who used to smoke weed heavily that it reduces the chemical in your brain that helps you cope with stress...can't remember which one or researched it personally, but I assume it to be true based on my experience.

A lot of stoners like to tote that weed is completely harmless but I believe this to be grossly misleading. Besides the obvious fact that inhaling any kind of smoke is detrimental to one's health, there seem to be a lot of hidden or unseen negative side effects to peoples psyche's. It can definitely mess with your head, and some more so than others. When you start mixing it with other drugs I no longer think cannabis can be considered "safe" or "harmless", not that it really ever should be but using it in combo with other drugs, stimulants in particular, can exacerbate the negative side effects on the mind.

That all being said, I am unsure if it is a direct cause to psychosis but I think that there is most definitely a link. Whether it be due to predisposition, other drug use, or environmental factors ... well I'll leave that for others to debate.

I've recently had a couple month long binge on mostly xanax but was using coke to keep me going because of how many bars I was taking. I tried to taper as best as possible but once if I had them I basically took them until I was out, so the taper was pretty steep considering the dose I had worked up to. Long story short, during the WDs smoking weed was no longer a relaxing or even pleasurable experience. The initial high was semi relaxing and much more psychedelic than really ever, but after that I would get extreme paranoia and start getting mild auditory hallucinations like hearing my phone ring/vibrate when it was completely silent. Long story short, I ended up having a seizure about 1-2 weeks after taking my last bar. Since then I haven't smoked more than a few hits at a time, except a couple times, because I no longer enjoy it like I used to. Feels like I have no tolerance but the high is much more disorientating and confusing than it was before.

I give that story to say that cannabis is still somewhat of a mystery. Up until fairly recently, studies on cannabis have been largely banned by the federal government, requiring special permitting and what not that no one ever gets because the government never gives it out. So to say that there it can not cause psychosis or other mental ailments because there is no proof or studies showing a direct link is a bit naive IMO. The reason no studies have turned up yet could have a lot to do with the legal status of the substance(up until recently most stoners would be afraid to talk publicly/openly about their use) as well as government regulation and funding.

So the fact that it isn't proven, to me, seems like more reason to take precaution. I think in the next decade we will have an explosion in the knowledge and understanding of how cannabis affects the mind and body both over short term and long term and all the risks associated. Until then, I do not wish to be a guinea pig... although I already am somewhat given my history of drug use....

hope this helps in some way.

IMO people underestimate the psychedelic powers of marijuana and the fragility of sanity

while i don't think marijuana and psychedelic use can change your brain and make you develop a tendency to go psychotic (schizophrenia, chronic psychotic ilnesses, 'psychoses', whatever...) i do believe anyone can go psychotic (acute psychosis, psychotic episode) from too much psychedelics

if OP is like 15-18 i'd say stay away from it... lol come on that can't be good for your mental health

I'd have to agree with this. I've always considered myself to be strong mentally.

I don't think most realize how close they live to insanity until they cross that line and get a taste of it first hand.

 

[camjua]

I'd also like to add, when I took MDMA it wasn't until I smoked weed that I became psychotic. The weed definitely triggered the psychosis on my MDMA come down... same with on meth too.. if I ever smoked weed on the comedown... I'd shortly after begin hallucinating like crazy.

 

[Mafioso]

I'd also like to add, when I took MDMA it wasn't until I smoked weed that I became psychotic. The weed definitely triggered the psychosis on my MDMA come down... same with on meth too.. if I ever smoked weed on the comedown... I'd shortly after begin hallucinating like crazy.

yup my experience as well. it was like smoking set off the crazy. I know it doesn't directly make me crazy but on benzo wd and 3 days no sleep it had me thinking my roommate drugged the drinking water(my explanation to hallucinations) and my neighbors were conspiring to get me. I even remember hearing(or so I thought) their voices talking about their plan. Also I kept hearing a song on repeat but couldn't figure out what direction it was coming from(because it was in my head...) and even though I was stoned it made me bug eyed and jumpy. Would not recommend that experience.

 

[Ignot]

I suffer from Depersonalization. I believe It was caused by taking massive amounts of Xanax,Weed and then having a full blown psychotic trip from benzo withdrawal. It makes accomplishing goals in life almost impossible

 

[Nom de Plume]

Defend ya bong all you want!

I don't smoke. Weed makes me terribly anxious.

but I have seen it first hand cause people to become paranoid enough to become psychotic

A posteriori knowledge is not any more convincing than mere guesses and conjecture. It is the device with which dullards, devoid of critical thought, erroneously conflate subjective experience with objective reality.

Seeing is actually not believing, nor should one's anecdotes be thought believable in absence of sufficient evidence.

Anyway, let's get to my point, forthwith:

There seems to be a fundamental miscommunication here. When I use the term 'psychosis', I am referring to a subset of psychotic disorders (which I prefer to call 'primary' or 'endogenous' psychosis).

The reason is so I can differentiate the organic mental illness from the brief, non-pathological disorders.

This distinction used to be the norm in psychiatry and psychology.

But now, thanks to the pernicious trend of the pathologisation of non-pathological illnesses, we have come to this modern, more all-inclusive paradigm.

Disorders of psychosis that meet the original criteria are called Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorders.

They are primary disorders, not caused (but can be exacerbated) by outside factors.

On the other hand, you seem to think secondary or brief reactionary psychosis is tantamount to or the same as a psychotic disorder. You're very misguided, imo.

Just research something like 'psychotic disorder' on Google and save us both the time, please.

 

[Blendincolor]

I had psychosis a few years ago, Depression,schizophrenia,insomnia,paranoia and anorexia. Probably a lot of other things as well but most of that period of my life is blurred. I had a major breakdown after a week or regular weed smoking but mixed with synthetic weed and random insomnia plus a bunch of energy drinks i really fucked my biology up. I went to the best psychiatrist i could find and he mentioned that weed is the cause of the breakdown. BUT what he also said was that if i smoke weed one more time after i get better (Which took me 1 year) i could put myself back in the psychosis state. After i recovered i moved to holland to study what i breath for, music. And ever since (2 years) I have been smoking the strongest weed, eating great shrooms and taking a bunch of other things along the way. I could not feel any better. I think weed can make you feel bad if you are not in a mental well being, but psychosis? HELL NO. its just so that the doctor can prescribe you some anti depressive bullshit meds instead of the natural medication. If he didnt do that he would loose money.. And who wants that right ? Smoke green, stay green brother.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Cannabis and other drugs do not cause psychosis to happen out of nowhere to people.

The person has to have a predisposition for it, or have a genetic history of it like with other relatives having issues with going psychotic.

It's also been argued that if someone goes psychotic from drugs that it eventually would have happened anyway even if they had never used drugs.

 

[Nom de Plume]

Cannabis and other drugs do not cause psychosis to happen out of nowhere to people.

The person has to have a predisposition for it, or have a genetic history of it like with other relatives having issues with going psychotic.

It's also been argued that if someone goes psychotic from drugs that it eventually would have happened anyway even if they had never used drugs.

My argument in a nutshell. Thank you for having a brain.

 

[David Wooderson]

I have seen a few girls have "episodes" when smoking with me. One in particular seemed like she was on acid. I remember having to call a friend because I was about to take her to the ER. Can't imagine what that person would have been like on synthetic cannabinoids.

Cannabis is not for everyone and I think it can provoke a psychotic episode for people very ill suited for any kind of hallucinogen. I doubt the ppl I seen have reactions are predisposed of mental illness. But none of the incidents were permanent. I hate how ppl treat cannabis like drinking a beer. It like all mind altering substances should be treated with lots of respect. There are tons of people that can't handle alcohol why ppl think weed is for every single person is why it gets negative attention.

I smoked cannabis for a long time, all day and everyday, and looking back it made life harder for me.

Now I just smoke occasionally and enjoy it and my life much more.

 

[moon8blood]

maybe it depends on the person and their resilience. can definitely say smoking weed left me more depressed than I was before - I am clinically depressed. I used it to kind of ease it, and it more or less dragged me back down. I agree it makes you paranoid. For me, once my high was gone, I couldn't stop thinking - I got more anxious than I was before. So I don't know about any scientific theories, but I literally toned down smoking just because I hated feeling sketchy and sad all the time - well more than usual lol.

 

[the_void]

This is absurd nonsense; unmitigated malarkey.

To say cannabis causes or can potentially cause psychosis is a rather insidious and specious assertion to make; most especially when one comes to realise there is only an incredibly basal and incomplete level of scientific understanding on the etiology of psychosis and psychosis-related disorders.

Moreover, scientists, specialising in a variety of fields of study—including neuroscience, cognitive science, psychology, psychiatry, medicine, biology, sociology, and innumerable interdisciplinary and subdisciplinary derivative fields of study—haven't even begun to consider the construction of a cogent theory on the elucidation of the actual cause or causes of psychoses.

Instead, we've nothing but conjecture, many irreconcilable hypotheses (to wit: the Glutamate hypothesis; the Dopamine Hypothesis), and a bunch of laymen who don't know shit from shinola yet are absolutely convinced of the veracity of one hypothesis over the other without the slightest idea why.

And the confidence and temerity with which the assertion (that psychosis is a sequela of cannabis consumption) is announced is surprising, seeing as there is an absolute dearth of scientific evidence to corroborate it and warrant such cocksure conviction.

The only real, tangible evidence is that:

1.) psychoses are genetic and that certain individuals possess a genetic predisposition to psychosis, and

2.) certain environmental or social factors, such as frequently partaking in the use of cannabis, have been correlated with an earlier age of onset and greater susceptibility of developing psychosis in those individuals already genetically predisposed to the abnormality.

In other words, cannabis only lowers the age at which one experiences what are known as prodromal symptoms, and it is also implicated in increasing the likelihood of a predisposed individual transitioning from solely predisposed to psychosis to demonstrably psychotic.

To put it succinctly, cannabis is not a cause, but it may possibly serve as an initiator. It's a gene/environment interaction or an epigenetic mechanism at play, in this case. To say cannabis caused the psychosis is tantamount to saying cannabis caused the genes.

Verbose...

 

[Shady's Fox]

No, the only enemy it's you. Green is not a drug, green in it's purest form will not do anything but help you feel good. Even Jamaicans don't have the purest weed but it doesn't mean that every weed in every corner of the earth needs to be laced. You probably need to get the fuck off green and just do something that doesn't make you paranoid. I can agree that if you buy weed from a NYC's candy shop -- you can experience some stuff as it's laced. I see this thread being a waste of time and the void, revisited this thread to say ''Verbose'', hold for yourself. There's stupidity, void listen there's 10 thread rn on the front page that are worse than this, do you see me goin and say close this shit? No, try and ignore the stupidity it's what will save ur mental health. Good luck.

 

[ions]

Psychosis is just a word doctors use to admit you to a psychiatric ward. Schizo too. But really the judges and doctors have a personal hangup with illicit drug use and they need to make money off you. Really, you are taking a psychoactive substance and yeah largely unregulated and tainted.

 

[burn out]

I don't want to get into a debate over the meaning of the word psychoses but I will say that heavy marijuana use had a profound negative effect on my mental health. When you smoke multiple times daily you don't even realize how much it's messing with your head. Other factors which I believe contributed were the fact I used to meditate while I was high, which would take me into very deep altered states of mind which your average person who just smokes and plays video games isn't going into on such a regular bases like I was. I was also very shy and socially isolated and all those hours smoking weed and meditating by myself is what gave me, what I consider psychoses.

I also don't buy the argument that "it would have happened anyway". Sure, I would have struggled with psychological issues had I never smoked weed just like a lot of non drug users (and drug users) do. I already had problems with anxiety and depression before I started smoking weed. However, marijuana had specific effects on my mental health that I highly "would have happened anyway". There's just no evidence to suggest that.

 

[wallywogs]

I smoke daily and find that if I don't smoke I get moody. It is also a demotivator for me as well. I am smoking lots of pot right now as it is winter. I don't smoke as much in the summer or nothing would get done. I have heard of people doing weird shit anecdotally but never seen it myself. I don't drink and haven't for 31 years...now that fucks me up.