MAPS MAPS research on use of Ayahuasca and Ibogaine to treat addiction`

ebola?

ebola?

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 21, 2001
Messages
22,070
Location
in weaponized form
MAPS has recently conducted a few interesting studies examining the use of Ayahuasca and ibogaine to treat addiction. I am hoping to open up discussion of these studies here.

What do people think about the methodology of the Ayahuasca study in particular? I'm wondering in particular about whether their use of subject-matched controls "from the community" is ideal. Clearly, it is very challenging to establish placebo conditions for administration of psychedelic drugs (eg, one could use some sort of nasty but non-psychoactive plant brew that has been adulterated with ritalin or something).

The studies examining ibogaine appear a bit different, in that they focus on extended case-studies. What do people think about the limits to this methodology?

ebola
 
I think the iboga studies being confined to case studies is probably due to the narrow therapeutic index & generally sparse funding. I believe it would be quite difficult to convince an IRB to let you administer ibogaine, but I'm sure people at the clinics in Mexico & Canada are quite happy to cooperate with researchers. Clearly it's quite limited, but probably the best way it can be studied at the moment.
 
^Agreed. Obviously not ideal, but it's a great way to get the foot in the door with the scientific community and provide some legitimacy. Providing case study data at least allows some number crunching once a decent volume of data has been produced - once there's a good lit review done, it's more likely that more formal research can take place. One of the largest struggles in "alternative therapies" research is gaining enough traction with both the public and the academic community to remove the stigma/unreasonable skepticism around treatments that have overwhelming anecdotal evidence to support further research.
 
Very true. & even though it does seem safe in most instances the researchers I've spoken with are leery of it because the other substances they're interested in have a much wider therapeutic index (psilocybin, LSD, ketamine, & even MDMA). In addition to the way all modern research takes pains to avoid adverse events, most psychedelic researchers still feel like they're walking on eggshells & one potential SAE from the govt shutting things down again.

I definitely agree that anecdote-> case study-> more rigorous trials is the natural progression for ibogaine research and it'll likely just take some time before it ends up in RCTs. Though I can't imagine how one would attempt to preserve a blind in such a study, it's difficult enough with psilocybin & mdma, ha.
 
Very good point. Hopefully we'll have a springboard for expanded, more detailed regimented study on its efficacy.

It would be difficult to find a good active placebo for ibogaine. Maybe a peripherally selective anti-cholinergic, to cause various symptoms, like dry mouth, blurry vision, etc. over a long period...or maybe a lengthy adrenergic agonist, though this would have a psychological effect.

ebola
 
This may seem like a dumb question, but, in the case of addiction, why is there a need for placebo type studies at all? It seems to me that evidence of efficacy in treating addiction would be based solely on long term following of people who claim to have been helped immediately afterward. I have no doubt that they are helped by the insights both plants provide but what has foiled every single treatment for addiction so far is not quitting (no matter how many compelling reasons for doing so are revealed), but changing or eschewing usage of the addictive substance over the longterm.
 
I have never experienced Ibogaine and from all my research I fully believe it is beneficial to Opiate addicts, now is it more beneficial than Suboxone? That's my number one question.

I have used Ayahuasca from all around the world, South America, ASIA, The United states and more.... My initial hope was it would be the ultimate cure for my Benzo, opiate and amphetamine addictions. This was never the case, it really helped with relationships, deeper thought, spirituality, and becoming comfortable with death.

I also have a peer who takes Aya 3 times a year, initially he thought he was cured of all drug habits, however he continues to drink and leans back in the drug world.

It is simply how one chooses to live that will put an end to an " addiction "

my2cents
 
herbavore said:
This may seem like a dumb question, but, in the case of addiction, why is there a need for placebo type studies at all? It seems to me that evidence of efficacy in treating addiction would be based solely on long term following of people who claim to have been helped immediately afterward. I have no doubt that they are helped by the insights both plants provide but what has foiled every single treatment for addiction so far is not quitting (no matter how many compelling reasons for doing so are revealed), but changing or eschewing usage of the addictive substance over the longterm.
Click to expand...

A placebo group would still be helpful because as rare as it might be, some people do recover spontaneously from addiction.

Let's say you have two seperate groups with active treatments (the ibogaine and ayahuasca groups), and three months after the study you find that 20% of the people in each group are no longer addicted. What do you make of that? Did either drug have an effect? Neither? If you had a third placebo group to compare to, where say only 5% were recovered, then you can say the drugs had a positive effect for those 15% of people that wouldn't have improved spontaneously.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top