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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Manipulating opioid pharmacokinetics – Thinking out loud
- Thread starter Bamboozle
- Start date
diacetyldeath
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 329
I didn't read much about CCK inhibition (e.g. Proglumide/Milid) apart from a post that mentioned it in passing.
I experimented with Proglumide as a potentiator and also to attenuate/block tolerance with moderately successful results.
A problem is that Proglumide, in itself, promotes the formation of tolerance, so any course of Proglumide intended for opiate enhancement should be given in alternating weeks.
I dosed at 400mg every day for a period of seven days, at which point I would stop the Proglumide for a period of seven days, rinse, and repeat.
Since that time, I have read articles that suggest the opiate-enhancing effects of Proglumide (potentiation, tolerance blocking/attenuation) are most apparent at 200mg, and actually fall off as dose increases. This property did not make any sense to me, and could simply be a misinterpretation of the article due to wording.
Has anyone else used Proglumide in this fashion? What was the most effective dose?
Kudos to the user who started this thread, although it does appear that a bunch of worthless trolls have discouraged him/her from continuing to post. This is exactly the kind of research in which I am most interested, and it appears that subjective experimentation is really one of the only ways to make progress beyond reading about rats and tail-flick tests. I experimented on myself with ultra low doses of opiate antagonist (Naloxone) co-administered with my usual dose of diacetylmorphine, resulting in a marked decrease in opiate consumption, whether from placebo or from bona fide opiate tolerance attenuation, I couldn't tell you. Regardless, it was an enlightening experience and I wish I had some more Proglumide (or better yet, an opiate antagonist NOT found in solution with buprenorphine known as Suboxone) to continue such testing.
I certainly respect this user's decision to stick to codeine to analyze the effects of the various substances with which he/she is experimenting. If I could go back and do things differently, I would have chosen the same route.
However, since there's little to no opioid tolerance of which to speak in this dose range of this particular opiate (codeine), it's difficult for this user to analyze effects of these experiments on opioid tolerance (if any). Whereas, in myself, there is quite an opioid tolerance with which to deal, one that I don't imagine will ever truly return to baseline, if people's accounts of what moderate-term opioid addiction/abuse can do to the notion of "baseline" are correct.
I have read articles on blocking/attenuating opioid tolerance using CCK inhibition (Proglumide), NMDA antagonists (DXM/Ketamine), and ultra low dose antagonist therapy (Naloxone/Naltrexone). I would be very interested in other forays into this realm of opioid use, if any.
Other threads like this are encouraged, at least by me!
I experimented with Proglumide as a potentiator and also to attenuate/block tolerance with moderately successful results.
A problem is that Proglumide, in itself, promotes the formation of tolerance, so any course of Proglumide intended for opiate enhancement should be given in alternating weeks.
I dosed at 400mg every day for a period of seven days, at which point I would stop the Proglumide for a period of seven days, rinse, and repeat.
Since that time, I have read articles that suggest the opiate-enhancing effects of Proglumide (potentiation, tolerance blocking/attenuation) are most apparent at 200mg, and actually fall off as dose increases. This property did not make any sense to me, and could simply be a misinterpretation of the article due to wording.
Has anyone else used Proglumide in this fashion? What was the most effective dose?
Kudos to the user who started this thread, although it does appear that a bunch of worthless trolls have discouraged him/her from continuing to post. This is exactly the kind of research in which I am most interested, and it appears that subjective experimentation is really one of the only ways to make progress beyond reading about rats and tail-flick tests. I experimented on myself with ultra low doses of opiate antagonist (Naloxone) co-administered with my usual dose of diacetylmorphine, resulting in a marked decrease in opiate consumption, whether from placebo or from bona fide opiate tolerance attenuation, I couldn't tell you. Regardless, it was an enlightening experience and I wish I had some more Proglumide (or better yet, an opiate antagonist NOT found in solution with buprenorphine known as Suboxone) to continue such testing.
I certainly respect this user's decision to stick to codeine to analyze the effects of the various substances with which he/she is experimenting. If I could go back and do things differently, I would have chosen the same route.
However, since there's little to no opioid tolerance of which to speak in this dose range of this particular opiate (codeine), it's difficult for this user to analyze effects of these experiments on opioid tolerance (if any). Whereas, in myself, there is quite an opioid tolerance with which to deal, one that I don't imagine will ever truly return to baseline, if people's accounts of what moderate-term opioid addiction/abuse can do to the notion of "baseline" are correct.
I have read articles on blocking/attenuating opioid tolerance using CCK inhibition (Proglumide), NMDA antagonists (DXM/Ketamine), and ultra low dose antagonist therapy (Naloxone/Naltrexone). I would be very interested in other forays into this realm of opioid use, if any.
Other threads like this are encouraged, at least by me!