Heroin MAJOR HABIT - Help trying to get clean with suboxone

[nycblueskie]

Some of you may know i have a major habit. I m trying to kick...yesterday i took maybe a 1/4 of a 8mg sub and used 3 hours after and i felt it fine, just slightly underpowered. But i want to get off this weekend and start taking subs tomorrow.

Basically my habit goes like this: shot in morning 9 am, shot at 5 pm, shot at 10pm. each shot has 15 bags or 1.5 grams , so a total of 4.5 g a day habit. I dont bang unless i have a 100ml/1cc syringe COMPLETELY full. Wish they made larger ones.

How much suboxone should i take to get off? And please dont say ask a docotor, fuck a doctor they only care about money im better off using before i take any advice from them (suggesting i go to methadone clinics! SMH)

Please if anyone with a habit like mine kicked before , plz offer any advice you can thankx!!!

 

[morphonorconic]

How did 2mg work? Buprenorphine is extremely potent, so despite your large habit, a dose of 8mg or less should relieve w/d symptoms. Start small and titrate as needed.

 

[95Land]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the level of your habit.
I used to either go to NYC or got from people who picked up there and sold here at a profit. So, my habit was mainly sourced from where yours was. Mine was 4 or so shots a day. When it was fire, I'd typically do 2 bags. When it was iffy, I'd do no more than 4 and still be fine. Kicking has almost always hellish at my previous level.

What I'm getting at is..... Is your habit THAT extreme? Or is the quality middling?
Cause if you're doing 15 bags of average to fire NYC dope, you've got a fucking bear of a time ahead of you. I know you say "major habit" in the title. I'm just trying to get a better grasp.

I would wait 24-48 hours since your last shot and try a small dose of Sub. You're obviously gonna feel like hell at that point. If the small dose of Sub(2-4mgs) makes you feel better, maybe add a couple more mgs. If it's helping, redose at a reasonable rate until you reach a point where you feel like "This is the best I'm gonna feel, for now."
The times I've used Suboxone as a "aid" in kicking have, with one exception, been nightmares. I hate the shit. But, I also recognize that it works wonders for some and I would never want to push someone in the direction of the clinic.
However, with that level of a habit, if I'm understanding correctly, you're gonna have to be very committed to kicking. While also understanding that it is not gonna be a pain free detox, by any means.
You can do it, and you'll be much better off on Sub than Methadone. It sounds like your head and heart are in the right place.

The whole key to kicking in this manner is to wait until the dope is far enough at of your system and then just dose depending on how the size of the dose made you feel. Titration, as Morpho mentioned.

 

[rhun]

Don't knock it till you've tried it. Despite having a huge tolerance and a fairly large habit, getting started on methadone gave me my life back. It really just stabilized me and allowed me to focus on what I'm doing with my life now that I'm not having to worry about my next shot every few hours. It's been a huge load off. I know many people who have gone through the same clinic who can say the same.

Edit: And just an FYI, after finding a dose that held me I stayed on it for a month or two then started tapering. It's a slow process but so far I've had no discomfort and I'm down to under 50mg.
Having your dose lowered automatically every few days or once a week or whatever rate you'd prefer really helps... I don't even have to think about it or stress on it but I know I'm tapering.
And I chose my taper plan and can stop at any time.

 

[KillSurfCity]

i have a kind of large habit. either a big (about a gram) of H a day or 160mg oxycodone per day....been on that kick for a little over a year now. 4mg sub/nal alleviates WD for an entire day and i'm not sick until i wake up the next morning.

and don't just straight up say "fuck doctors". a lot of suboxone docs. are former addicts that understand these things. you should seek one if you don't think you can control yourself. tread lightly.

that being said, even the smallest doses of suboxone can alleviate WD. you may be surprised.

 

[The Dope Man]

Ibogaine. Research.

 

[JM357]

my big question recently has been this: when used for a short period of time (like 5-7 days) do you go through suboxone WD's? I guess I had been told that when only taking the subs for a short period the WDs from them are minimal to non-existant.... thats what they had claimed at the detox I was in years ago (they LOADED people up for a few days then stopped; such a short period of time would probably not work for such a large habit...) and I don't remember getting any major WDs. I am confused; I did just post a thread a few hours ago about an incident I had while taking the subs. I wasn't even planning on a taper, just a week or less of subs then stop. Am I completely mistaken?

Maybe I just didn't notice the sub WDs then? I had a lot less responsibilities and could pretty much sit around most of the day....

 

[95Land]

I've observed 2 separate girlfriend's(I used to habitually date dope users) do quick tapers off of Suboxone and they were fine when they stopped. Very, very mild WD symptoms. Neither one of their habits was on the level that we're talking about here, but they were both somewhat significant. I think a short taper is a good idea.
When I went to rehab in 2007, they pushed hard for me to detox with Sub and stay on it. I went with what the 2 doctors and counselor recommended and spent the next couple years vacillating over whether I wanted to be on it, if it was even doing anything, or if I wanted to get off. I got off it and noticed 0 difference in levels of cravings, etc.

@rhun- I didn't intend to knock Methadone. I know many people whom it has been a godsend for. I do feel like if you can manage to get off just utilizing Sub or, best case scenario, nothing, and stay clean after, you're in the best position in regards to freedom. Freedom from the clinic, freedom from Bupe docs and piss tests, etc, freedom to move around if you want and not have to stress about a new clinic and all, etc....
I also realize that people that can just quit and stay quit are few and far between. But, if I'm offering my recommendation, I would always recommend the less life altering method of jumping off. If that doesn't work, then it's up to the OP or whoever, to go from there.

 

[oxyaddict05]

Just to give you an idea of how strong bupe is, there was a time when I was on 18mg. When I wanted to take a week off and get high, I would fire 600mg of oxycodone in one shot, 2 or 3 times a day. Not much sub was in my system as I always gave it time to clear out before using. (I was in south Florida @ the time...had dirt cheap access to Roxies and dope would have been cost prohibitive with my tolerance. But damn did grinding down 20 pills take some effort.... I also required a 3CC 23 gauge rig to fit all that oxy solution.)

Only did that for a month. Injecting pills, even with a micron filter, is bad for business. I wouldn't recommend it to my enemies.

Ended up getting MRSA endocarditis. Not sure if the pills had anything to do with it, or the crack I would mix in with vinegar. Never know whose mouth a crack rock was in.8(

P.S. last I heard, 32mg was the ceiling. So you can't take any more than that. Unless science has discovered something new in the last 4 or 5 years.

 

[rhun]

^ 32mg is the ceiling but they've found that the most effective doses are in the 2mg-8mg range. Doing 32mg isn't going to be of any more benefit to you than doing 6mg.
In fact, my dad was one of the first people described bupe when it first came out and no one really knew much about it. He and a bunch of others were prescribed different doses.
The people in his group in that 2mg-8mg range were the most successful. My dad was on 32mg and just ended up on methadone because it didn't do anything for him.
I believe there's a lot of other evidence out there too though that backs up the success of doing a smaller dose.

And 95land, I didn't take what you said the wrong way. However, methadone has not been life altering for me. I kept my dose low, get my take homes quickly, and as soon as I was stabilized started tapering. I've never experienced any real high but I feel happy and normal with minimal side effects even now that I'm half way done with my taper. I think it just depends on the person and the habit. I don't think a partial agonist would have been enough for me.

 

[OCeric40]

^ 32mg is the ceiling but they've found that the most effective doses are in the 2mg-8mg range. Doing 32mg isn't going to be of any more benefit to you than doing 6mg.
In fact, my dad was one of the first people described bupe when it first came out and no one really knew much about it. He and a bunch of others were prescribed different doses.
The people in his group in that 2mg-8mg range were the most successful. My dad was on 32mg and just ended up on methadone because it didn't do anything for him.
I believe there's a lot of other evidence out there too though that backs up the success of doing a smaller dose.

And 95land, I didn't take what you said the wrong way. However, methadone has not been life altering for me. I kept my dose low, get my take homes quickly, and as soon as I was stabilized started tapering. I've never experienced any real high but I feel happy and normal with minimal side effects even now that I'm half way done with my taper. I think it just depends on the person and the habit. I don't think a partial agonist would have been enough for me.

^^^^
I just learned the hard way with Bupe less is more! as backwards as that is to my addict thinking it has been proven true
too many times by too many people on it to be bull!
I am trying to taper now at 2mg from a 8mg-12mg a day dose because for me the long term higher dose
actually stopped having any effect on my(it took 1 month shy of a year to happen)
had my doctor told me or if i would have had the insight to reasearch Bupe i could have prevented what happened by lowering my dose down to the sweet spot for me.