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Magnetic signals to alter consciousness

I know that transcranial magnetic stimulation TMS is used for migraines.
 
Interesting..I'd like to know if it really works.

I've had a head MRI before which uses magnets and it didn't put me into an altered state. I do not know if the MRI machine works the same way as this device, but I have to say I am skeptical.

Please someone follow up if they decide to purchase this device and let us know if it works.
 
I could understand something like this affecting someones mood or mind-set a little, but I highly doubt that it would project you into some sort of trip, as it would lead you to belive it does.

Personally, I'm not going to go out and spend $230 on something that a $5 joint would do 100X better, espcialy after all this you hear about things like cell phones giving you tumors, tho I would be very interested to hear someone elses experiance with the thing.
 
>>I do not know if the MRI machine works the same way as this device,>>

It is very different.
..
One of my colleagues in the psychology lab was using TMS to temporarily "knock out" sensory-motor areas in a study of kinesthetic processing. He said it was an odd experience, suddenly losing awareness of where his arms where.
...
Yeah, I can only imagine what TMS does when "higher-level" areas are knocked out, particularly considering the role of the temporal lobes in ascribing spiritual meaning.

ebola
 
An MRI machine works by applying a strong magnetic pulse around your brain, and the energy released by the electrons in the hydrogen atoms in your brain going back to the way they were before the magnet hit them is measured. This allows the machine to present a picture of whatever it is scanning based on how much water the thing has in it.

So bone has less water than grey matter which has less water than the (water filled) ventricles and so on.

TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) is a widely used technique in cognitive and neuropsychology to identify what brain areas are responsible for doing what and the architecture of the cognitive and percept creation systems. I'm not very familiar with its theraputic uses so I won't comment on what it works for, but I know research has been done using it and depression, schitzophrenia, and other things.

I don't know about this device. I mean the guy seems for real but without references to it actually working it seems to me to be a pretty big leap of faith. If I were you I'd just get some ayahausca.
 
^ i think ill wait a bit longer until there are more reports... it's a shame there is no forum on the website for customers to share their experiences.

and ayahuasca is out of the question... ive been blown out of my head many times, its time to move on so im just looking for something extra to boost my meditations and developement..
 
I remember reading a wired article about this guy who would induce spiritual experiences with these magnets. I'll have to dig it up tomorrow.
 
It's certainly bullshit.

Like folks have said, you can alter the mind with strong oscillating magnetic fields inside the brain -- it's called TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation, and is being actively researched both for neuroscience purposes and as a safer/nicer alternative to electroshock.

But TMS devices are not cheap. Wikipedia says they run $25000 to $100000. And they're not safe either; certainly you can't just go buy one from some cheesy online store anymore than you can go buy yourself an electroshock setup that way. This stuff is FDA regulated, folks.

In any case, this piece of crap -- which runs from your damn sound card -- won't do jack. To be effective, TMS needs huge magnetic fields. On the order of 1 Tesla, roughly the same field as in MRI machines. If you've ever had an MRI done you know the magnets involved are big, not piddly little things. A standard magnet of that strength takes several thousand watts of power to run. That's the kind of power that you need a special wall outlet & wiring for (like a clothes dryer has.) Your computer's sound card, by the way, can provide maybe 10 watts, and that's being generous. This thing is a joke.
 
Thanks for cutting through the crap.
:)
The psych lab where I worked, I THINK had the most powerful fMRI machine in Oregon. It could suspend a license plate in mid air (not that this was unique to that machine in particular...). "Remove all metal from your person" indeed.

ebola
 
In a lecture a little while ago we got shown a picture of a large metal cart that had been pulled through a wall because of the force of the MRI magnet on the other side.
 
zorn said:
It's certainly bullshit.

Like folks have said, you can alter the mind with strong oscillating magnetic fields inside the brain -- it's called TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation, and is being actively researched both for neuroscience purposes and as a safer/nicer alternative to electroshock.

But TMS devices are not cheap. Wikipedia says they run $25000 to $100000. And they're not safe either; certainly you can't just go buy one from some cheesy online store anymore than you can go buy yourself an electroshock setup that way. This stuff is FDA regulated, folks.

In any case, this piece of crap -- which runs from your damn sound card -- won't do jack. To be effective, TMS needs huge magnetic fields. On the order of 1 Tesla, roughly the same field as in MRI machines. If you've ever had an MRI done you know the magnets involved are big, not piddly little things. A standard magnet of that strength takes several thousand watts of power to run. That's the kind of power that you need a special wall outlet & wiring for (like a clothes dryer has.) Your computer's sound card, by the way, can provide maybe 10 watts, and that's being generous. This thing is a joke.

I'll take your word for it, tho I was under the impression that the human brain operated under fairly low watteges, which required only a slight 'suggestion' from an outsite souce to make it work differently.

Infact, just tonight I had my friend put a muscle stimulator on my forearm (which runs on batteries), and on the 10th setting, my whole arm was shaking madly, like I was on an olde wodden rollercoaster.

If it takes several thousand watts of power to influence a delicate piece of equipment such as a brain this way, then howcome it only takes a cheapo battery worth of wattage to make my arm twitch like an MS patient?
 
If it takes several thousand watts of power to influence a delicate piece of equipment such as a brain this way, then howcome it only takes a cheapo battery worth of wattage to make my arm twitch like an MS patient?

High voltage electricity very easily affects nerves; magnetic fields do not. By way of analogy, people can see even very low levels of light in the 'visible spectrum', but you can pound them with infrared light until they cook alive and they'll never see it. The reason is simply that the eye responds much more readily to some forms of light than others. Likewise, while you can get a nerve to fire very easily with electricity (like with the 'visible light') it's much much harder to get it to fire (or not fire) using magnets (like the 'infrared light'.)

So, it's not simply a question of the total amount of energy being used.
 
Akoto said:
I'll take your word for it, tho I was under the impression that the human brain operated under fairly low watteges, which required only a slight 'suggestion' from an outsite souce to make it work differently.

Infact, just tonight I had my friend put a muscle stimulator on my forearm (which runs on batteries), and on the 10th setting, my whole arm was shaking madly, like I was on an olde wodden rollercoaster.

If it takes several thousand watts of power to influence a delicate piece of equipment such as a brain this way, then howcome it only takes a cheapo battery worth of wattage to make my arm twitch like an MS patient?
That's true, the power levels in the brain (and the peripheral nerves) are relatively low, and it doesn't take too much current to affect them. The difference between your electric stimulator and a TMS machine is in how we are trying to affect the nerves.

With the electric stimulator you're using, you were hooking up electrodes to your arm and so directly running current through it. In that case, as you discovered, it's relatively easy to muck with the nerves; a battery provides enough power. It's the same with the brain. In fact, for some serious neurological conditions, doctors do something very similar to your little muscle stimulator -- they implant electrodes directly into the brain, and connect them to a small battery powered-powered device usually implanted underneath the skin.

However, if you wish to affect the brain (or nerves) without directly touching them, things become much more difficult. Instead of just shoving current into a nerve, you have to create electric or magnetic fields in space which have to be strong enough to induce nerve activity on their own. This is quite difficult, mainly because the human body is very good at blocking electromagnetic fields. (The body is mostly water with lots of ions in it, and ionized water is an extremely good electrical conductor. As you may (or may not) know, conductors block the propagation of electromagnetic fields -- this is why it's almost impossible to get a cell signal inside a metal elevator, for example.) It's easy to induce big fields in empty space, but getting them to penetrate into the body where they might do any good is very hard. This is what makes TMS machines so expensive and power-hungry. It's also why they didn't exist until recently, while electrical stimulation of nerves (and the brain) has been known for well over a century.

Here's an interesting article in the NYTimes from a few days ago, about rTMS and direct nerve stimulation devices for migraines. Note the electrical devices were battery-powered and implanted under the skin, while the rTMS devices were modified fMRI machines weighing 80 pounds and so required an ER visit. They do say new rTMS machines weighing only 3 pounds have been developed; that's pretty amazing in itself, though I still doubt they're battery-powered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/health/07migr.html?ref=science
 
Shakti is a tantric practice. As for electromagnetics, you might look into kundalini and raising energy. The brain is elctrochemicalso you might look into psychedelics.

trip more...learn more.
 
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