LSD and the novelty factor

[skarz]

I watched a show called "Explorer" on NatGeo and feel that they did a pretty good overview of LSD.

I recall a part where they were explaining how and why LSD works in the brain. They said that it inhibits part of our brain dealing with memory (hippocampus?), more specifically where our brain makes "shortcuts" per se to make our brain run more efficiently. They said that due to this area being inhibited, our brains are forced to experience things as new, therefore boosting the "novelty factor" - does this sound accurate to anyone? And if so, what area of the brain were they talking about?

 

[PepperSocks]

Yep, very familliar.

The brain acts like a filter. It filters out information that isn't important (the vividness of a sunset for example) and lets things that are important (look both ways when crossing the street) pass through.

It's the pre-frontal cortex that is the executive center and I believe that's where LSD does most of it's thing. It obviously affects other parts of the brain but I believe it lets things bypass the PFC which is why things become more profound and vivid.

 

[NeuroDr]

I think the "novelty" factor is common to most psychedelics. Hence the phrase I may or may not have heard somewhere before "Psychedelics make everything new again". I'm not sure where to localize that effect to in the brain, Pepper is probably pretty close if not right, but LSD's effects are so widespread that its hard to say whats effected where in what way. And afaik LSD's mechanism of action isnt really understood too well. They know the receptors it reacts with and where those receptors are, but why it does what it does isn't really clear I didn't think. Another interesting side-note with LSD i think is that it isn't the LSD molecule directly causing the effects, but rather a cascade caused by the LSD. For example, IV LSD doesnt really kick in significantly faster than other ROA. Magic it is, magic

 

[PepperSocks]

Another interesting side-note with LSD i think is that it isn't the LSD molecule directly causing the effects, but rather a cascade caused by the LSD. For example, IV LSD doesnt really kick in significantly faster than other ROA. Magic it is, magic

Good point. Also of note, is that LSD is metabolized and excreted within the first couple or few hours, yet the experience lasts 12 hours.

 

[NeuroDr]

Yea thats amazing! Idk where i saw the exact figure but I'm pretty sure I read that you eat micrograms of it, only nanograms actually enter ur brain, and a couple hours in an overwhelming majority of that is gone. Idk if it is, but i hope thats true. It's hard to say enough about how amazing LSD is, just thinking about it makes me happy :D

 

[ebola?]

serotonergic neurons in the brain are located mostly in the ralphe nuclei (IIRC), but project out to numerous areas of the brain. Of particular note are projections to the thalamus, a routing center of sorts, which is responsible for one step of integration of information, and the visual cortex. Again, IIRC, serotonergic activity inhibits the inhibitory signals that visual cortical neurons send to adjacent visual cortical neurons, overall turning up the 'gain', but leading to feedback loops that could plausibly physiologically implement the fractal patterning that appears.

Also of note, is that LSD is metabolized and excreted within the first couple or few hours, yet the experience lasts 12 hours.

This is a common misconception that is rooted in fact: measuring instruments of the early sixties were not accurate and precise enough to measure single and sub microgram quantities of organic molecules reliably. Subsequent research has found the intensity of LSD intoxication to correlate quite closely with its levels in blood serum, making its long duration no longer mysterious.

ebola

 

[skarz]

Yep, very familliar.

The brain acts like a filter. It filters out information that isn't important (the vividness of a sunset for example) and lets things that are important (look both ways when crossing the street) pass through.

It's the pre-frontal cortex that is the executive center and I believe that's where LSD does most of it's thing. It obviously affects other parts of the brain but I believe it lets things bypass the PFC which is why things become more profound and vivid.

Cool, thanks to you (and everyone else!).

 

[NeuroDr]

Well thanks for spreading the knowledge and ruining the fun ebola Ur right about the Raphe, idk about the visual system very well so you could very well be right (or wrong ) but thats an interesting concept to understand the fractalling. Cool stuff. Still magical

 

[busted bones]

Yea thats amazing! Idk where i saw the exact figure but I'm pretty sure I read that you eat micrograms of it, only nanograms actually enter ur brain, and a couple hours in an overwhelming majority of that is gone. Idk if it is, but i hope thats true. It's hard to say enough about how amazing LSD is, just thinking about it makes me happy :D

I cant find the link anywhere but someone posted it, it was a study done and showed that 10% of what you ingest crosses the blood brain barrier and the rest tends to be stored in the liver

 

[waynard]

from what i've read LSD inhibits and speeds up parts of your brain simoltaneoulsy(sp) and the parts of your brain that are sped up have information coming in at such a fast rate that it feels like a completely new experience because you havent experienced the memory overload previoulsy

 

[psood0nym]

Yea thats amazing! Idk where i saw the exact figure but I'm pretty sure I read that you eat micrograms of it, only nanograms actually enter ur brain, and a couple hours in an overwhelming majority of that is gone. Idk if it is, but i hope thats true. It's hard to say enough about how amazing LSD is, just thinking about it makes me happy :D

Hate to ruin the fun, again, but this rumor has been popping up again lately.

LSD is quite nice, but I really don't find it superior to other top-shelf psychedelics. I think there's a lot of mythic grandeur attached to it from history that influences people's expectations (set) and positively skews memories of it more than with others. Plus, it has a degree of exclusivity attached to it because it's harder to get than most others, which makes it special. The last time I saw this rumor I dug up this statement taken from an interview with Albert Hofmann from here: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro04/web1/mfichman.html

A C14 marking of ingested LSD shows that about 10% of LSD molecules ingested by a subject pass through the blood brain barrier and bind to serotonin receptors in the hypothalamus.

The novelty factor is associated with most psychedelics. I seriously doubt that it's just due to re-routing signals away from the hippocampus that we experience a sense of novelty, though I suppose that could play a part. As evidenced by the past popularity of bullshit science like phrenology, the idea that there are modules in the brain where broad aspects of human experience are localized is appealing. But in many cases appealing is all it is (in their defense, if the media didn't use simplifications, I doubt as many people would be interested!). In the past, there was talk about the "reading center" of the brain, even though it now appears from fMRI data (also quite limited) there are at least three major interconnected areas involved in processing, and that picture will undoubtedly grow more complex; the inferior frontal gyrus plays integral roles in a number of seemingly very different behaviors, and it's unknown what function it might have that could possibly be applicable to all. I don't know about you, but typically my experience of the world isn't amplified and distorted the way it is on psychedelics. Encountering the same things with this new perspective alone creates a sense of novelty.