A friend of mine wants to try LSD, but her mom has schizophrenia and I know there's a bit of controversy over LSD and other drugs insinuating schizophrenia in some. She smokes weed, enjoys it, and has never had any issues with it. Would it be a bad idea for her try LSD? I just don't want anything happening to her.
LSD and Schizophrenia
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CrypticArc
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I think that "psychedelics trigger schizophrenia" theory is bullshit because I watched someone who's schizophrenic as all hell smoke DMT for his first psychedelic and love it. If a psychedelic causes someone to change mentally, any other equally traumatic experience could have done the same. That being said, you are putting her at risk to have a traumatic experience. If you do go through with this keep the dose low and make sure you have benzos handy.
I tripped on LSD with a guy who I didn't know had paranoid schizophrenia. I'd smoked weed with him quite a few times prior to that evening. He seemed normal enough - just a bit shy and awkward. I thought maybe he had mild depression or maybe social anxiety issues and that a nice acid trip would sort him out. Man was I wrong.
Some time around the peak of the experience, he had a full psychotic break. I used to know a schizo years back but this was like nothing I've ever seen. He thought that I was somehow responsible for his state of mind on some sort of telepathic level. He refused to believe he was under the influence of a drug - no - I was doing this to him with my own mind (if only I had that ability).
I don't know how bad his schizophrenia was before he took the LSD but that trip sent him to the psychiatric ward. AFAIK he's still there now. LSD is a fucking powerful drug and it absolutely does have the potential to trigger a psychotic episode in someone who has schizophrenia or is predisposed to it.
Schizophrenia is a very complex mental illness. There are many mechanisms involved (glutamate/NMDA, serotonin etc) and one of them is overactivity of D2 receptors (look up stimulant psychosis). It stands to reason that LSD is significantly more likely to trigger a psychotic episode in a schizophrenic person than most other psychedelics... in many ways it is the antithesis of antipsychotic meds.
Some time around the peak of the experience, he had a full psychotic break. I used to know a schizo years back but this was like nothing I've ever seen. He thought that I was somehow responsible for his state of mind on some sort of telepathic level. He refused to believe he was under the influence of a drug - no - I was doing this to him with my own mind (if only I had that ability).
I don't know how bad his schizophrenia was before he took the LSD but that trip sent him to the psychiatric ward. AFAIK he's still there now. LSD is a fucking powerful drug and it absolutely does have the potential to trigger a psychotic episode in someone who has schizophrenia or is predisposed to it.
I wouldn't recommend DMT (or any psychedelic) to a schizophrenic, but it is less likely to trigger a psychotic episode than LSD, at least on paper. LSD is fairly unique as it's a pretty strong dopamine agonist. The psychedelic effects are caused by 5HT agonism, but studies show that its actions as a DA agonist do contribute to the behavioural effects (e.g. the strong stimulant component that other classical psychedelics lack, and that 'edgy' feeling that is often reported).
Schizophrenia is a very complex mental illness. There are many mechanisms involved (glutamate/NMDA, serotonin etc) and one of them is overactivity of D2 receptors (look up stimulant psychosis). It stands to reason that LSD is significantly more likely to trigger a psychotic episode in a schizophrenic person than most other psychedelics... in many ways it is the antithesis of antipsychotic meds.
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CrypticArc
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Actually LSD is a very effective tool in treating schizophrenia in the right setting. You're correct that schizophrenia is very complex, in fact it's most likely a large variety of different problems manifesting in similar ways, but LSD cured 15 children of schizophrenia during trials. http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html
With all respect. But it is very unclear whether LSD can be a useful tool for schizophrenia.. I would not suggest that at all, until there is more research done and that might easily take another 20 years at least.
Any stressor could trigger schizophrenia if you are sensitive for schizophrenia (and since her mom has schizophrenia, she is). Taking drugs can be a big stressor for the brain. So if she wants to be safe I'd recommend to wait until she is around 30. By that time she is less likely to develop schizophrenia or psychotic episodes.
I'd recommend her to take it easy on the weed to.
Any stressor could trigger schizophrenia if you are sensitive for schizophrenia (and since her mom has schizophrenia, she is). Taking drugs can be a big stressor for the brain. So if she wants to be safe I'd recommend to wait until she is around 30. By that time she is less likely to develop schizophrenia or psychotic episodes.
I'd recommend her to take it easy on the weed to.
PriestTheyCalledHim
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If someone is schizophrenic they should not use drugs including cannabis, and alcohol.
I know more than a few people who are schizophrenic who did take psychedelic drugs including acid and cannabis, and one who took MDA/MDMA. These drugs did not cure their schizophrenic, and made their schizophrenia worse.
As for your friend, ultimately it will be he choice to take drugs or not. Personally if a close relative of mine were schizophrenic I would not use any drugs especially psychedelics.
I know more than a few people who are schizophrenic who did take psychedelic drugs including acid and cannabis, and one who took MDA/MDMA. These drugs did not cure their schizophrenic, and made their schizophrenia worse.
As for your friend, ultimately it will be he choice to take drugs or not. Personally if a close relative of mine were schizophrenic I would not use any drugs especially psychedelics.
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Tranced
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I agree with the past couple of posts.
I have a friend who is highly likely bipolar/schizophrenic. We'd know for sure, but he refuses to see a doctor (that said, the doctor has made an unofficial diagnosis to his parents, and his brother is schizophrenic).
If you asked his opinion then he would say that modern medicine is a scam and psychedelics help better him as a person and regulate his anxiety. His diagnosis is bullshit and everyone is wrong.
If you were to ask my opinion, then I'd say that psychedelics make him a serious threat to others, as evidenced by his track record. Furthermore, they make him think illogical, irrational thoughts, significantly and obviously worsen his anxiety, and his diagnosis is absolutely correct.
He makes a pretty good case for himself, but seeing him in the depths of mania/psychosis isn't pretty, and it's seriously detrimental to his life. There is no doubt that his abuse of psychedelics has almost entirely contributed to this, though he would never agree with you.
I have a friend who is highly likely bipolar/schizophrenic. We'd know for sure, but he refuses to see a doctor (that said, the doctor has made an unofficial diagnosis to his parents, and his brother is schizophrenic).
If you asked his opinion then he would say that modern medicine is a scam and psychedelics help better him as a person and regulate his anxiety. His diagnosis is bullshit and everyone is wrong.
If you were to ask my opinion, then I'd say that psychedelics make him a serious threat to others, as evidenced by his track record. Furthermore, they make him think illogical, irrational thoughts, significantly and obviously worsen his anxiety, and his diagnosis is absolutely correct.
He makes a pretty good case for himself, but seeing him in the depths of mania/psychosis isn't pretty, and it's seriously detrimental to his life. There is no doubt that his abuse of psychedelics has almost entirely contributed to this, though he would never agree with you.
I think it's reasonable to say that we don't know for sure as of now, but to stay safe i guess it is better to stay away from psychedelics.
As someone said before, any traumatic event can set off psychosis (a very broad term), and psychedelics can be extremely traumatizing, and even trigger psychosis in otherwise sane people, so thered be a even greater risk with someone with a predisposition to psychosis already (schizos).
Any kind of mental instability doesnt go well with psychedelics, or drugs in general.
There doesnt seem to be any consensus on this matter... Be careful.
That being said, fwiw, personally, i find that marijuana makes me waaaay more 'weird' than psychedelics, which usually make me feeling more clear headed AFTER a GOOD trip. Id think it would have a greater link, if any, to psychosis than psychedelics...
As someone said before, any traumatic event can set off psychosis (a very broad term), and psychedelics can be extremely traumatizing, and even trigger psychosis in otherwise sane people, so thered be a even greater risk with someone with a predisposition to psychosis already (schizos).
Any kind of mental instability doesnt go well with psychedelics, or drugs in general.
There doesnt seem to be any consensus on this matter... Be careful.
That being said, fwiw, personally, i find that marijuana makes me waaaay more 'weird' than psychedelics, which usually make me feeling more clear headed AFTER a GOOD trip. Id think it would have a greater link, if any, to psychosis than psychedelics...
SixBuckets
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That setting is definitely not sitting in your bedroom with a friend who is not a psychiatrist, or at a party or festival, or any other environment the average user is likely to ever be in.
CrypticArc
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I was able to draw therapeutic value from psychedelics with only the knowledge of a basic college level psychology course I took for free on the internet, and a couple documentaries, alone in my room or with a friend many times.
Thomas29
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Yeah lsd AND schizophrenia is about as good for u as it is bad for you meaning it is neither but it depends on the person AT BEST they will be FINE or have a Good Time but most likely it will be bad Or just Not Enjoyable because they Do Not Think Normally they have Daily Auditory Hallucinations And Visuals Nevermind Adding some Hallucinogenics to the mix but i would think a low dose lsd or shrooms so your not tripping for 24 hours whichi is just insanely ridiculously unnenccessarily Long If you Ask Me 6 To 8 Hours is More then enough Time to Blow My Mind On A Good Shroom Trip..
That being Said it is Safer And Hell Of A Lot Better Choice then Trippin Ballz on One Of the New Hallucinogenic Research Chemicals Or The Old And Or Illegal One Such As 2-CB Is Illegal If I Am Not Mistaken Correct Me If I Am Wrong Lol.
That being Said it is Safer And Hell Of A Lot Better Choice then Trippin Ballz on One Of the New Hallucinogenic Research Chemicals Or The Old And Or Illegal One Such As 2-CB Is Illegal If I Am Not Mistaken Correct Me If I Am Wrong Lol.
SixBuckets
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Pretty sure you would have mentioned if you had a history of psychotic illness before this.
There's a world of difference between someone with no history of or tendency towards mental illness getting a benefit from recreational drug use and someone living with mental illness getting 'therapeutic' value from it. The latter might be possible, but to recommend that people with potentially life threatening conditions experiment in uncontrolled settings is phenomenally irresponsible.
murphythecat
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can you cite some if his irrational and illogical thoughts?
very special dude though and I think that once they are schizo, if well surrounded, lsd could help the user to see into his problems. but for a schizo, the setting will be even more important.
I mean, the person accompanying the schizo should be very kind and compassionate with him and never let him feel like he is judged.
lets say that my friend schizo was able to be with me on shrooms but my other friend wasnt as kind and that made him anxious, but when we were just two, he seems better.
I had a friend that though he was the gabriel angel. he was schizophrenic. we did shrooms and mdma a couple of time. it didnt seem to make him really worse. it actually made him more open about his problems.
very special dude though and I think that once they are schizo, if well surrounded, lsd could help the user to see into his problems. but for a schizo, the setting will be even more important.
I mean, the person accompanying the schizo should be very kind and compassionate with him and never let him feel like he is judged.
lets say that my friend schizo was able to be with me on shrooms but my other friend wasnt as kind and that made him anxious, but when we were just two, he seems better.
Listen to SixBuckets. That guy is talking sense. I am highly skeptical of the notion that LSD can 'deconstruct' schizophrenia. I do believe it can help people deal with psychological issues, but schizophrenia is a very complex and serious mental illness. I don't think you appreciate the severity of this condition - these people think very differently to us.
When you or I have a bad trip on acid, we get anxiety and dysphoric mania. When a schizo has a bad trip on acid, they completely lose touch with reality... it's called a psychotic break and it's not pretty.
Schizophrenics shouldn't be playing around with any rec drugs, except maybe sedatives.
When you or I have a bad trip on acid, we get anxiety and dysphoric mania. When a schizo has a bad trip on acid, they completely lose touch with reality... it's called a psychotic break and it's not pretty.
Schizophrenics shouldn't be playing around with any rec drugs, except maybe sedatives.