Low Estrogen?

[OverDone]

Age: 44
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 223
BF: ~10% - 12%

Hey guys,
I was pinning sustanon 250mg e3d for 12 weeks. At the end of this I had bloods drawn. I was unable to have estrogen checked due to the technician not providing "enough quantity" to perform the test. However, my doctor stated that my estrogen was low. Below are my test levels and DHT:

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL: 1458
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, LCMSMS: 167
DHT FREE: 22.73

Am I correct in concluding that she diagnosed the low estrogen by recognizing high DHT?

I am now pinning 125mg of sustanon e3d. If the above theory is sound, lowering the test dose should lower DHT which would then allow my estrogen to increase, correct?

Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[Genetic Freak]

Age: 44
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 223
BF: ~10% - 12%

Hey guys,
I was pinning sustanon 250mg e3d for 12 weeks. At the end of this I had bloods drawn. I was unable to have estrogen checked due to the technician not providing "enough quantity" to perform the test. However, my doctor stated that my estrogen was low. Below are my test levels and DHT:

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL: 1458
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, LCMSMS: 167
DHT FREE: 22.73

Am I correct in concluding that she diagnosed the low estrogen by recognizing high DHT?

I am now pinning 125mg of sustanon e3d. If the above theory is sound, lowering the test dose should lower DHT which would then allow my estrogen to increase, correct?

Any insight would be appreciated!

Without a blood test your Dr can only surmise E2 levels... High DHT doesn't necessarily correlate to low E2, the only way to check E2 is to test for it...

250mg E3d day, total testosterone should be nearer 2200...?

 

[OverDone]

Thanks GF.

I'm using UGL so I assumed it is under dosed. Didn't realize it was THAT under dosed, though.

I plan on having them test estrogen only this week. I don't know how they did not draw enough blood for the lab to test.

Now, if my bloods come back with low estro... what do i do to have them "normalized"? Is cutting my test dose sufficient or is it somethoing I will just have to deal with?

 

[Genetic Freak]

Thanks GF.

I'm using UGL so I assumed it is under dosed. Didn't realize it was THAT under dosed, though.

I plan on having them test estrogen only this week. I don't know how they did not draw enough blood for the lab to test.

Now, if my bloods come back with low estro... what do i do to have them "normalized"? Is cutting my test dose sufficient or is it something I will just have to deal with?

I've got reference ranges for DHT at 30-85 ng/dL, so might conclude at 22.73 you may be on the low side...

Blood tests will confirm levels of E2, I think from memory the Androgen:Estrogen ratio is about 50:1...

A low dose AI (aromatase inhibitor) adex 0.5mg E3rd day could be used to lower E2.. To raise E2, add more test..

If you are not showing symptoms of high E2, personally I wouldn't worry about it...

 

[flyhighk]

lowering the test dose should lower DHT which would then allow my estrogen to increase, correct?

No.
To increase your estrogen levels, use MORE testosterone. Estrogen is produced from test, by an enzyme called aromatase.

 

[OverDone]

I've got reference ranges for DHT at 30-85 ng/dL, so might conclude at 22.73 you may be on the low side...

Blood tests will confirm levels of E2, I think from memory the Androgen:Estrogen ratio is about 50:1...

A low dose AI (aromatase inhibitor) adex 0.5mg E3rd day could be used to lower E2.. To raise E2, add more test..

If you are not showing symptoms of high E2, personally I wouldn't worry about it...

Thanks again.

I'm experiencing sexual side effects. I'll wait until I get my blood work before I pursue any further changes.

I haven't had the need for an AI as of yet. I do have letro on hand for any "emergencies". I'm grateful I haven't had to use it as of yet.

 

[Serotonin101]

I have a hypothetical question. Can or has anyone successfully nuked estrogen and supplemented with exogenous e2? Imo this woukd allow perfect management of estrogen without having to mess around with conversion between test and estro.

 

[flyhighk]

^ So you basically reduce estrogen levels to almost zero using an AI and then supplement with an adequate amount of estradiol?
That should work, but it would be a waste of money imo.

 

[Serotonin101]

^ So you basically reduce estrogen levels to almost zero using an AI and then supplement with an adequate amount of estradiol?
That should work, but it would be a waste of money imo.

Well depending on how much is needed one could use the new fina pellets with estradiol and tren periodically vs just tren to keep things balanced. Even oral versions could be used as estradiol is orally active if memory serves right

 

[brink]

Without a blood test your Dr can only surmise E2 levels... High DHT doesn't necessarily correlate to low E2, the only way to check E2 is to test for it...

250mg E3d day, total testosterone should be nearer 2200...?

That'd make a lot more sense.

Was the e3d pinning at 1mL? Pharm grade? Any long breaks in injection until blood was taken?

If you take a 5ar inhibitor, this would lower DHT, raising T and E relative to what's administered. You may not want to lower DHT, and it would first be best to know if E is actually low. If there are no negative sides from DHT, resulting sides from potentially high E wouldn't be great to chance. Lowering DHT is more likely to negatively impact mood, vitality, libido. imo

 

[Genetic Freak]

Thanks again.

I'm experiencing sexual side effects. I'll wait until I get my blood work before I pursue any further changes.

I haven't had the need for an AI as of yet. I do have letro on hand for any "emergencies". I'm grateful I haven't had to use it as of yet.

Letro can be a very harsh compound... 250mg E3rd day, shouldn't necessitate using an AI...(unless you are very sensitive to E2 fluctuations)

 

[Genetic Freak]

That'd make a lot more sense.

Was the e3d pinning at 1mL? Pharm grade? Any long breaks in injection until blood was taken?

If you take a 5ar inhibitor, this would lower DHT, raising T and E relative to what's administered. You may not want to lower DHT, and it would first be best to know if E is actually low. If there are no negative sides from DHT, resulting sides from potentially high E wouldn't be great to chance. Lowering DHT is more likely to negatively impact mood, vitality, libido. imo

A 5-alpha reductase inhibitor would reduce the DHT:Estrogen ratio this could leave the OP prone to estrogenic side effects like gyno.... bad idea..!!

 

[OverDone]

Was the e3d pinning at 1mL? Pharm grade? Any long breaks in injection until blood was taken?

Yeah, 250mg/1mL was done e3d of UGL sustanon (it appears to be under dosed). I had the blood drawn the day after an injection

Letro can be a very harsh compound... 250mg E3rd day, shouldn't necessitate using an AI...(unless you are very sensitive to E2 fluctuations)

Agreed. I bought the letro in the very beginning of using test as a precaution (and possible remedy) for potential gyno.

No.
To increase your estrogen levels, use MORE testosterone. Estrogen is produced from test, by an enzyme called aromatase.

I love the idea of taking more test but, I'm in favor of following directions. A typical blast/cruise is 10 to 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off. I just completed 12 weeks.
If I'm incorrect in this common procedure, I would be completely ok with taking more test.

There were some red flags on my urine and blood screen that may prevent increasing dosage, however. Primarily in regards to cholesterol:

HDL - HDL CHOLESTEROL 18 mg/dL >40
LDL-C - LDL (Calc.) 120 mg/dL <100 H
CHOL_HDL - CHOL/HDL 8.4 Ratio <4.6 H
A CHOLESTEROL / HDL ratio greater than 6.0 indicate a High risk of CHD.
LDL_HDL - LDL / HDL 6.7 Ratio < 3.5 H
Risk Interpretation: Above Average Risk (Greater than 3.5)​

My plan was to do 6 weeks of 125mg e3d, have blood/urine tested again and then increase to 250mg for 10 to 12 weeks if everything was well and good. Since the measurements are off on this gear, and estro is low, perhaps 300mg e3d.

I'm leaning towards getting cypionate in order to remove the variable of 4 esters in order to dial in more stable blood levels.

My primary concern right now is the lack of sex drive and inability to perform. I'm hoping this will pass with the lower dosage I am currently taking but, until e2 is checked, its only an assumption that this is the culprit due to what my doctor is stating

 

[brink]

That'd make a lot more sense.

Was the e3d pinning at 1mL? Pharm grade? Any long breaks in injection until blood was taken?

If you take a 5ar inhibitor, this would lower DHT, raising T and E relative to what's administered. You may not want to lower DHT, and it would first be best to know if E is actually low. If there are no negative sides from DHT, resulting sides from potentially high E wouldn't be great to chance. Lowering DHT is more likely to negatively impact mood, vitality, libido. imo

A 5-alpha reductase inhibitor would reduce the DHT:Estrogen ratio this could leave the OP prone to estrogenic side effects like gyno.... bad idea..!!

Gotcha, that was the part about sides from potentially high E. No good reason to lower DHT unless there are prostate or other unwanted issues like hair loss, cystic acne. I actually had great skin with high DHT, but the PCT was always horrid.

 

[brink]

My primary concern right now is the lack of sex drive and inability to perform. I'm hoping this will pass with the lower dosage I am currently taking but, until e2 is checked, its only an assumption that this is the culprit due to what my doctor is stating

Wow, hopefully you find resolution soon. May be worth trying another doc, unless the current is wanting to continue with e2 testing before drawing conclusions.

 

[nolys]

Would a dht blocker be any use for acne??

 

[brink]

Would a dht blocker be any use for acne??

Many sources say yes. This article is mostly pertaining to women, but there's plenty of data saying the same thing wrt males. There's also some information on estrogen, which also applies:

...testosterone can take two paths: it can be converted to the potent androgen DHT by 5α-reductase activity or the less potent estrogens via aromatase activity. 5α-reductase is an important enzyme in androgen-dependent disorders, such as acne, male pattern baldness, and hirsutism. There are two forms: type 1 and type 2. Type 1 is the predominant form in skin with high concentrations seen in sebaceous glands and face and scalp skin.10,13,14 Finasteride, a type 2 5α-reductase inhibitor, is well known for its use in male pattern baldness. Since type 2 5α-reductase enzymes are not found in the skin, it is unlikely to be a helpful treatment for acne.6

While testosterone and DHT have clear roles in acne pathogenesis, research continues on the role of estrogen. Estrogen is known to suppress sebum production when given in sufficient amounts. Other mechanisms for estrogen’s effect include direct opposition effect on testosterone and inhibition of testosterone secretion.6,15 In addition, through the metabolization of estrogen in the liver, estrogen increases sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).16 SHBG has a high affinity for testosterone and will bind to it preferentially over estrogen. Since testosterone and its conversion to DHT are the primary androgens in acne, increased SHBG leads to improvement in acne.17

I'm not at all sold on DHT=acne, per se. Hormone balance seems to have more to do with it, as many other males have reported having clear skin on cycle with test, and terrible acne during PCT. Would love to hear if someone has more information on this.

Have personally taken finasteride and dutasteride with no big noticeable difference in breakouts... the data above says fina wouldn't make any difference with sebum and acne. Some folks seem to have good luck on dutasteride/avodart. If it were a slam dunk cure, there would be plenty of info on the subject, at least anecdotally.

 

[nolys]

Interesting read. Thanks for that
Mine generally flares up during pct and there is a slam dunk cure it's called accutane lol

 

[brink]

Interesting read. Thanks for that
Mine generally flares up during pct and there is a slam dunk cure it's called accutane lol

Took moderate doses of accutane as a teen but haven't tried for PCT. Not sure my liver ever recovered from the first bout! :D

Do you take a lot? Guys have reported good luck with low doses like 10mg... wonder if that's enough for the PCT madness

 

[flyhighk]

I love the idea of taking more test but, I'm in favor of following directions. A typical blast/cruise is 10 to 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off. I just completed 12 weeks.
If I'm incorrect in this common procedure, I would be completely ok with taking more test.

There were some red flags on my urine and blood screen that may prevent increasing dosage, however. Primarily in regards to cholesterol:

HDL - HDL CHOLESTEROL 18 mg/dL >40
LDL-C - LDL (Calc.) 120 mg/dL <100 H
CHOL_HDL - CHOL/HDL 8.4 Ratio <4.6 H
A CHOLESTEROL / HDL ratio greater than 6.0 indicate a High risk of CHD.
LDL_HDL - LDL / HDL 6.7 Ratio < 3.5 H
Risk Interpretation: Above Average Risk (Greater than 3.5)

My plan was to do 6 weeks of 125mg e3d, have blood/urine tested again and then increase to 250mg for 10 to 12 weeks if everything was well and good. Since the measurements are off on this gear, and estro is low, perhaps 300mg e3d.

I'm leaning towards getting cypionate in order to remove the variable of 4 esters in order to dial in more stable blood levels.

My primary concern right now is the lack of sex drive and inability to perform. I'm hoping this will pass with the lower dosage I am currently taking but, until e2 is checked, its only an assumption that this is the culprit due to what my doctor is stating

Wow
From what I remember, estrogen helps reduce LDL and increase HDL so your blood levels could be the result of low estrogen. I think it's really important to get it checked.

How's your diet?