Love: Our only defense

[greenmoon]

Interesting. I wonder if you use your reasoning to decide what you believe is good for yourself or others - or do you just believe that whatever you come up with at the time is good enough? If you truly believe that love is so important don't you think that some care could fit in there as well? You may have the ability to dissect other people's words and views and perhaps be impartial and accept these as simply different views - but many people cannot. Words can hurt.

 

[buzzn_all_nite_long]

just because u can type 3 big paragraphs of bullshit that only 5% of the people on here read, doesnt mean your good!!!!

 

[psychoblast]

See, I've always felt that if you understood another person completely, you would necessarily love that person. Can't help it. For every mean, petty, perverted thing that person has ever done, you would see what forces drove them to do it and you would empathize, sympathize and accept it without hating the person.

Perhaps, NT, I can tie this to your post. Because if we have a constant desire to LOVE more than we love right now, or to BE LOVED more than we are right now (which, together, I will call "feeling more love than we feel right now") we cannot do so by staying with people who we fully understand and who fully understand us. We can only INCREASE our feelings of love by spending time with people we do not know/understand and who do not know/understand us.

For a romantic relationship, this means that the amount of love that bonds the two of you will continue to grow as you reveal more and more of yourself to the other, and as more of the other is revealed to you. And this may satisfy your desire to INCREASE your feelings of love. But eventually, you and your lover will reach a point where you have each revealed all you are going to reveal to the other, and your feelings of love remain at the same level. I mean, it may be a high level. You may feel a ton of love for each other. But that does not matter. What NT seems to be saying is that we have a need for our feelings of love to be increasing. Which may drive a loving couple apart even though they still feel that love, because they have a need for a GROWING sense of love, not a STATIC sense of love.

I'm not sure if I buy that. Since two lovers are, themselves, constantly changing, they will always have something new to reveal to their lover. Also, growing love need not only be found with a lover. They could channel their need for growing love to their children or to friendships.

Though if the sense of growing romantic love is a heady feeling, I guess it is possible some people would throw away a very strong, loving -- but not growing -- bond of love even if it meant starting over with less love with another person, because they crave the sense of growing romantic love.

Well, I'm still not sure how much I agree with this idea of people craving "love," let alone craving a growing sense of love.

~psychoblast~

 

[NecroTrance]

...But if two lovers change and decide to venture into the unknown of the future together, they can keep a growing love, because not only will they love all of their lover's past experiences, but they will also love gaining new experiences with that person. However, a coupling like this is rare, it happens, but definitely not enough and I believe that is directly related to society as a whole impacting our senses of love with FORCED visions, brainwashing, if you will.

 

[NecroTrance]

...Because entertainment is just another part of the mathematical equation which is life.

 

[PottedMeat]

Three cheers for NecroTrance!

Screw you intollerant hippies!

P.S. NecroTrance does not mean you fong dead folks?

 

[rewiiired]

Very interesting. I liked reading this.

First of all I'll explain that what I've discovered throughout my life so far is that there is a natural rhythm to the cycle of life and it can be as obvious as an ecosystem or as indiscernable as the puffs of air we breathe in numerous times a day and take for granted each one. Everything happens for a reason...I just gritted my teeth after hitting my last period+space combination...For a reason. I'm talking nuances and nuances, nano-motions in space that maybe send a wisp of air into the right whirlwind, ultimately affecting the space around you in an infetesimal chain of coincedences and causes which, in turn, results in equally as infetesimal effects causing the next person to react and keep the chain going.

What I like about this is probably not what you intended; the light it sheds on morality. We'd all agree it's rather ignorant to be short-sighted; our minds focusing on short-term outcomes rather than long term effects. This cigarette I'm smoking, for instance, is quite relieving at the moment, but I'll probably get cancer and die sometime down the road. However, when we think in terms of `good' and `bad', we all to often ignore the cause-and-effect web like that which you've descirbed above. You may help an old lady cross the street, but that act, percived to be good and moral to a short-sighted mind, may tip the scales just enough so that a war to end all life on the planet may come to pass. Of course, we can't be expected to realize the full range of effect every choice we make will have, but it does seem to indicate, at least to me, that there is no absolute good or evil. It's all subjective, relative, dependent on perspective.

However, as biological beings we are flawed, simply because our bodies weren't meant to last...We're meant to produce as much as we can to the natural cycle of life and to take only what we need to produce more and that's always how it happens now matter what your mindset is, it's a mathematical certainty, but anywho...We are all decaying and dying so that one day we will not be a part of this system actively any longer, instead we will be a passive, yet integral part of the cycle of life, for our impressions left on the living will act as causes to their decisions and also our actual matter which is decaying will prove to be a nutrient for the growth of more life.

I am worm food.

So, getting to gender...Well, basically, the obvious thought and conclusion is that we must, as a species, conceive in order to continue our survival...Sure, that's true and it's quite obvious, but the nuances behidn this conclusion are much more profound and somewhat grotesque. Bare with me... If the mathematics of the 'cycle' are so easy for us to see with our own eyes and for us to see and feel and sense in each other, wouldn't it be logical to assume that therein would lie yet another nuance which would be something of another dimensional aspect of these thre dimensions that we exist in? Isn't it safe to assume that by looking at something that is infinite we can continue to look into it forever? Yes, we can...Ever put a mirror to a mirror and popped your head in between? See the numerous images of yourself...

I've been caught by this `infinite regress' idea the last few months, thanks to RA Wilson and Dunne's An Experiment With Time (good book; if you haven't read it, it's highly recommended). But though a series can go on forever, doesn't it have to start somewhere? I used to get irritated with this left-cerebral hemisphere dominent friend of mine who used to tell me how there can be many infinities. It just didn't make sense to me. But take your pencil and poke a dot in a peice of paper. You could magnify that forever, I would assume, and see the initial dot composed of dots which were composed of dots composed of dots composed of dots... Infinity. Now erase the dot. Infinity go bye-bye. I'm rambling.

Well that's the way every step of life is, including pro-creation, but that is the most stripped down it gets. Sure, we're researching genetics and all, but that's not what I'm thinking of...I'm thinking of the energy it takes to reproduce, the anomalee of attraction. Pay attention... Animals, as you may know, use attraction just as we do, but in a much more primitive way, they will mate with the one who they believe to be the best survivalest in a trait that is specific to that specie's survival...Humans do as well, woman seek responsible, kind, successful, level-minded, able-bodied men whom they can get along with and enjoy to be around...

Okay, here's why I can't get laid.

Now, this is generally speaking, because since there are so many humans in the world almost any mating is possible...Loser to loser, if you understand what I mean.

So you're saying I might still get laid before I become worm food. Goodie.

So, what is this attraction, this love, that us humans seem to be able to expres so vividly? Its true meaning is something you should all be aware of...

This mathematical situation is infenitely destroying us and since alone we will never be able to compete with the entirety of the universe and all it's mathematical strategies, which are always trying to simplify our existance mind you, then we use love as our one true weapon against the math...

I've always hated math. Sex was nice, what I remember of it.

But isn't love just another part of the equation? No, it's not...Love is not a forced decision, that's the beauty of it, love is not controlled by the mathematics of life, even if we are attracted to someone and even if we want to love them, we don't have to,

Here's where I disagree. Granted, human beings, as a whole, are fairly horrible at controlling their emotions, and if we had reached a point where mastering such self-control was typical, we might find evidence that falling in love is a choice. As the human race is now, I don't see it. I see too many broken hearts, and I've got one of my own to deal with (don't tell anybody). If it was as simple as choosing not to love someone, damn would life be easier. Damn, would seeing her deep blue ocean eyes be nothing. But as it is, I drown in them. And others are torn by love. They learn to deal with the pain of unreturned or unacheivable love, but they cannot choose not to love who they love. Not currently, anyway.

why? Because love's whole essence is in direct contradiction to the simplifying and consuming mathematical equation that is our life...Love is always seeking more. Think about that. Love and attraction are two emotions or ideas that are always trying to improve and gain strength, always...if you ever think that you've lost love for someone you haven't, you've simply gained mroe love for something else, either yourself, another person, money, etc... So, life is always trying to destroy us and love is always trying to create us...

Without feedback, love is just another vampire. Love can kill as well.

Sorry to end on a bitter note. I really do like your post.

 

[NecroTrance]

No...Necro is greek and it pertains to death. (Necropoils = City of the dead for necro and polis)NecroTrance is a play on words which can basically equate to Trance of the dead. It's my way of conforming to that which is unconformed by mentioning death in a scene that is somewhat based around the positivity and creativity of life.

Getting back to the post at hand...I may not be human, at least emotionally or mentally. I have complete control over my emotions, so much so that I can equate and dissect every emotion into being dangerous to my long-term health, simply by thinking about its origin and the reason I felt it. I still feel them, but I rarely show them. To me, the only emotion worth showing is love and that could be a reason my love life is so 'up and down'...Perhaps women see me loving them, but being as immune to other emotions as oil is to mixing with water and somehow think I may be manipulating them for sex. Well, they wouldn;t trust me if they deduced something like that AND had evidence for it, perhaps by believing that I have control over my emotions but only choose to show them emotion in order to get something. That's poor judgement, but I don't care. If ever that were the case, which it probably has been, I would simply tell myself that I didn't need to love a woman who couldn't trust me or could think me capable of such a poor task. This is what I mean by being able to turn on and off emotions or love at will. I can outthink them. That's one thing we have, as humans, that seperates us from animals. The ability to profoundly think and reason every facet of life. It's only natural that we have taken our feelings of love/attraction(mating in general)to such an extreme, because we have thought out those feelings to such a degree. See, animals don't question their feelings, they know each and every one serves a purpose and that's all the knowledge they need, but humans want to know what purpose serves what purpose and where those purposes come from and who decided this and so forth ans so on. However, some humans don't think enough and consequently allow themselves to become enveloped in emotions, either good or bad, they still prove to damage your sense of self, obviously. The negative emotions make us feel horrible, but the good emotions give us a false sense of well-being, for instance, the most unhealthy person on the planet could never own a mirror or anyone to tell him he/she was digustingly fat and that his/her arteries were soon going to clog with cholestorol and kill him and he/she could be as happy as ever because they'd be able to eat whatever they wanted. Get it?

If humans were to utilize our natural abilities, rather than question them, i.e. think about our feelings rather than feel what we were thinking, we would be a much more peaceful, and overall well-off race because we would be more productive to the cycle of life, and as I've stated before, the more productive you are to life, the less life tries to kill you.

What about rewards, you ask? Are we just supposed to bend over and let life give us the ass-ramming of our life(no pun intended)? Well, to answer honestly...Yes. There's no way to fight life, only a way to put yourself out of active participation, but I doubt anyone wants to do that(die). However, we have rewards hidden within life that are easy to exploit. All we have to do to exploit these rewards is recognize them and filter our thoughts/feelings to coincide with them. One is love.

So, we actively change ourselves in order to gain love? Yes and no. If the time comes and we decide that we want to experience a love of some kind all we must do is think. We must think and discover where we can get the love and what will bring it to us. No, this isn't manipulation, I'd like to call it 'love-fishing' rather. After all, in a relationship, aren't we supposed to make compromises with our lovers about certain areas of our life that they don't particularly enjoy? So, why do wait until soemthing drastic happens to change our self-image? Why don't we do this on a moment-to-moment basis? We certainly have the capability of reasoning to do this. All we must do is put our mind to it, and just to weed out those of you who think my posts may be leaning towards the extreme of EVERY subject I speak about(btw, you're all wrong, you just see the surfaces rather than think for yourselves about the topic), I will tell you all that if we were chaning ourselves in order to gain love, but then we reached a choice to either lose the love or change a part of ourselves that we did not agree to changing, well, who would really lower their standards?

 

[NecroTrance]

Much love for you shadowbunny, I was aiming my discussion of the word 'necro' to the one who didn't understand its meaning...Call it deepening your initial clarification of the word.

Something else I realized lately is that as lovers go through life together, they are constantly thrown obstacles that could prove to be hazardous to the health of their love for each other. This is the way life works, essentially. Life is always trying to destroy itself...After all, there could be no death without life and vice versa. So one goes to the other and they are each one in the same, yet seperated by levels of reality which have been filtered out by our consciousness. In this 'reality' one more thing is possible: the act of realization that the only truly righteous thing about life, ocne stripped down to it's simplest equation, is the act of love and caring sincerely about another person who is also bound to life's ultimate end, just as you are. There are enough people in the world so that a single human's life could consist of nothing but love for all the other beings in the world and their love would constantly be quenched because there are so many people, there's not enough time in a single life for them to all be loved. So, what am I saying? I'm simply saying people should realize this and instead of trying to find a means around this inevitability, they should simply accept the fact that they ARE going to die and decide then that the best thing for them to do is GIVE their life to those in need. Instead of stepping on others in order to get ahead, and ultimately deper into life's web of decay, we should lift each other up. Perhaps, with te strength of everyone we could stand high enough above life that we may find the answers we're looking for, figuratively speaking. Two heads are better than one.

 

[nvr2old]

Bump
Give me liberty or give me DEATH!

 

[yougene]

I see what you are saying NecroTrance. It is just difficult to put into words, especially if your concept of something is radically different compared to someone elses concept of the same thing.