'Lost war' sabotaging American economy

kong said:
Governments love problems. They can always offer the solution, even if that solution will never work. Spending money is the government version of making money. So for government, cartels existing is profitable. They get to spend billions of dollars "fighting" them, with little or no oversight.
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Governments like problems, but thet love war, for this same reason.

And yes, vote for Ron Paul. Painting his name on rooftops is only the very beginning of what the masses of us real people need to do, if he's to get elected. Right now, getting the nomination in the Republican primary is already such an uphill climb, that it will take a million painted rooftops just for starters. But we have to do it. We have to do something.

DO SOMETHING!
 
Kucinich is, I believe, another candidate who would do something about the drug war. I agree with the Ron Paul vote however. Saw him speak recently and was impressed.
 
" If we legalized heroin tomorrow, it'd certainly nail the taliban's financial resources a bit."

Yeah it would help my finacial resources a lot too..
 
Are poppies legal to grow? For some reason I want to say that it's poppies you can grow legally, but it's only once you process that it's illegal. Mulberry?
 
Not exactly, in the states anyway, but people do tend to look the other way. Its not like its pot plants or anything 8) And all those people selling the dried pods on ebay... The govenment, Wall St, the CIA, congress and most of the pres. candidates are all deeply dependent on drug money anyway, so you might as well make some cash **and donate some to ...Ron Paul ?
 
that's weird - I was actually just getting back from home depot with some seeds, and started think 'hey, can't I grow poppies legally?'

I remembered seeign those dried pods on ebay, but I tried showing my girlfriend this and they're not there anymore! Home depot didn't have poppy seeds either :(

While I was there I did pick up some salvia seeds, but they're the 'blue bedder' variety, which I don't think is what I was looking for (damnit!).

I also got morning glory seeds, although I have no interest in LSA extractions on these (it'd be easier to just buy some psychedelics lol), but something about a flower growing in my yard that has psychoactive properties, and is legal, is just hella cool to me! I wish I had a giant san pedro in my front lawn!!!! <those are legal right? Just illegal once you cut them / consume them>
 
Yeah, pedros are legal, there just way too common in the southwest for the DEA to deal with. Plus there's the environmental aspect; they had people actually out in the desert burning peyote with flame torches. That combined with so many people eating them, peyote is now endangered. Pedros are much more common, and yes its legal to sell cuttings since they can root themselves in soil. Its only illegal to consume them or extract them mescaline. As for the poppy pods, I just checked, and they're still there, hundreds of listings. Sorry I don't know much about salvia, but they probably don't sell the seeds at Home Depot, there's a strong push to make it illegal, and it already in 4 states. Opium poppies are the strangest, they're Schedule I, and completely illegal to grow, sell, buy, possess, and consume. But the government looks the other way if they're sold for "decorative" purposes. Hell, some florist shops still sell them, even live plants.
 
Damn. I'm gonna say that I've recently moved into my first house (I'm early 20's), and am starting to do some gardening. Now, I have no desire to have the cops kick in my door at 5am because I decided I'd grow pot, so I won't because of that. However, in all honesty, even drugs that I don't like the alkaloids of, I'd like to plant. When looking at plants, sure, beauty and stuff is important, but to me (and I'd imagine many others), just knowing the 'power' of that plant makes it that much cooler. Like I said, I'm gonna plant some morning glories. I don't even think you can trip on them, you need to go through a crazy amount of seeds to even get a proper lsa dose. But looking at a beatiful flower patch and knowing they have psychoactive ingredients just makes that patch much, much cooler in my eyes.

So, which can we grow (not process for drugs, just straight up grow for aesthetics)?

Definites:
morning glories, salvia (for now anyways), san pedro

Maybes:
peyote, poppies

Definite no's:
marijuana, coca leaf


Am I pretty much on point there? (btw, I see I'm kind of derailing the thread with this talk, so maybe I should just start a new thread on this topic, but any quick responses to my stated list, especially corrections to it / additions to it, are greatly appreciated. I'll never forget reading an account of sasha shulgin's residence, how when you were walking up, there were plants all over, and he could just point to one and explain so much about it (more than the regular plant talk obviously), I just thought it was the coolest thing. For instance, if coca plants were legal to grow, I'd grow them - I don't even like cocaine. But just knowing there's so much more to the plant makes it way cooler in my eyes lol)
 
Well, you have to be at high altitude to grow coca. It will still grow at low altitude, but it won't produce cocaine. I wish I could grow san pedro here, but it would never survive the winter, and from what I've heard, it doesn't do so well indoors. Kava is another one I'd like to grow, but is even more picky, since its also tropical and you need volcanic soil and have to mist it with saline water. But kava is so nice, and completely legal. I've actually seen a webiste a while back run by this guy in Houston selling 6 ft Mimosa hostilis trees, and only five bucks each, but only if you pick them up. He also had 3 ft trees for sale online, though. The idea of growing my own DMT is quite tempting, but again, I'm not sure it would do so well here. Damn, I should move down south! :D
 
mulberryman said:
Well, you have to be at high altitude to grow coca. It will still grow at low altitude, but it won't produce cocaine. I wish I could grow san pedro here, but it would never survive the winter, and from what I've heard, it doesn't do so well indoors. Kava is another one I'd like to grow, but is even more picky, since its also tropical and you need volcanic soil and have to mist it with saline water. But kava is so nice, and completely legal. I've actually seen a webiste a while back run by this guy in Houston selling 6 ft Mimosa hostilis trees, and only five bucks each, but only if you pick them up. He also had 3 ft trees for sale online, though. The idea of growing my own DMT is quite tempting, but again, I'm not sure it would do so well here. Damn, I should move down south! :D
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Hmm, as far as growing the DMT containing plants (this is based on legally growing plants mind you, not extracting DMT or eating the plants!), are you sure they don't grow near your climate? I was under the impression that many, many plant species contain DMT.

I have some morning glories (heavenly blues) growing right now that I'm prolly gonna put in my front lawn, I want a big ass san pedro or peruvian torch out there!!!!!! (yes, I'm fully aware I can't trip on morning glory flowers, just assloads of the seeds - I wasn't joking when I said I straight up wanted to grow plants just knowing they were 'special' lol) But I looked around for a pedro or a peruvian torch yesterday, the best I could find was either seeds (I'm impatient and would only get a larger specimen), small specimens online, and I think I saw meat online too (but I just want the plant! ahhh!!)

I'm gonna need to look into that mimosa stuff, I actually have a link saved on my comp waiting to be read to learn more about that, but I'm *pretty* sure that's fully legal.
 
Yeah, Mimosa is legal. DMT is produced by many plants, but most don't produce noteable quantities. The only one I'm familiar with that grows around here is the mantis plant, or Illinois bundleflower, of which the seeds are available online, although rare and often out of stock, IME. One plant I'd really like to grow is the Syrian rue, but though the seeds are legal and easily obtainable, almost all of them are not viable.
 
I've used rue before on top of mushrooms and alone. Alone, it just made me puke my brains out and feel weird. On mushrooms, it gave me by far the strongest experience I've ever had, actually waaaaay stronger than I could integrate or even explain. I just laid on a bed motionless for hours in awe lol. Worlds beyond other trips, even what I'm sure would be considered ego loss trips.
 
Its pretty wild stuff, I've always wanted to try and grow it the actual harmal fruit, which is said to be used to make a tea in middle eastern countries. I'm guessing it wouldn't be as strong and harsh in its effects as the seeds, and maybe not as bitter tasting. I think the thought of how bad they taste is enough to make one puke. I've found encapsulating them to be easier that trying to gag them down. (ugh.) Incredibly intense effects, though. I haven't tried them with mushrooms, but with San Pedro, the effect was almost exactly like ecstacy, and of course, rue +mimosa is probably the most powerful natural combination I've ever experienced. If I ever do move to a warmer climate, I'm definitly gonna try growing both of these. Harmal plants are a perennial vine and mimosa is a tree, so they'll grow for years, and don't have to be harmed when harvesting their psychoactive parts, since you only need a small amount of root bark from mimosa.

Consuming DMT containing plants is not entirely legal, of course, but the União do Vegetal church won the right to use Ayahuasca in the supreme court, and since I've heard that one guy in Oregon who wasn't a member supposedly got a charge dropped against him, based on that decision. Maybe its the Ayahuasca revolution, haha. The thing is though, with psychedelics, there's a kind of self-enhancement that stays with you. The desire to use anything to excess, addiction or instinctuality, (is that a word?) things like unconscious habits and behaviours kind of become one with your conscoius mind. I know that's not exactly right, but there really isn't a way to explain it.
 
mulberryman said:
I think the thought of how bad they taste is enough to make one puke. I've found encapsulating them to be easier that trying to gag them down. (ugh.)
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It wasn't the taste in my experience, I didn't puke til well after I ate them (the time I tried syrian rue alone - when tried with mushrooms I didn't puke, just had a trip that was way too intense to enjoy. It wasn't good or bad, it was just soo intense it was like a waste of a night. I couldn't make sense of it, couldn't enjoy it, it wasn't good or bad. Actually, come to think of it, it wasn't a wasted night - I had my friend hold my wallet because I knew I'd prolly be a dumbass and lose it, and he was tripping too. When I started coming down, he told me he used some of my cash to buy us some ecstasy lol!!!!! So actually it was a good night once that stuff wore off and we dropped some rolls!



mulberryman said:
Incredibly intense effects, though. I haven't tried them with mushrooms, but with San Pedro, the effect was almost exactly like ecstacy, and of course, rue +mimosa is probably the most powerful natural combination I've ever experienced.
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hmmm, and mimosa AND rue are both 100% legit to both grow AND consume? Nothing illegal about growing rue and mimosa, and consuming them? Interesting!



mulberryman said:
Consuming DMT containing plants is not entirely legal, of course, but the União do Vegetal church won the right to use Ayahuasca in the supreme court, and since I've heard that one guy in Oregon who wasn't a member supposedly got a charge dropped against him, based on that decision.
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I've read a number of these cases - I would never feel comfortable growing something just because it's been sanctioned for native american churches.

mulberryman said:
The thing is though, with psychedelics, there's a kind of self-enhancement that stays with you. The desire to use anything to excess, addiction or instinctuality, (is that a word?) things like unconscious habits and behaviours kind of become one with your conscoius mind. I know that's not exactly right, but there really isn't a way to explain it.
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You're right, there isn't, stop putting words to things that are indescribable! =D
 
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