Loperamide-COVID-19: Loperamide is a Potent inhibitor of SARS-cov-2, COVID-19 virus in vitro

[SpaceWanderer]

Antibodies from covid will not give you lifetime immunity. 3/6 months from what I’ve been reading. The vaccine will be a yearly thing.

High dose loperamide is so bad for your heart. Even, even, if it did help, getting Covid is nowhere remotely near as bad as taking loperamide at high doses.

I admit maybe not life-time immunity. I most likely had it about 1 year ago, and I have a lot of antibodies. I had a serological test done weeks ago. The doc confirmed it and I have the lab results as proof.

I believe it was 1 year ago, end of January, because that’s when China closed its borders and isolated Wuhan . My gf flew in from Wuhan days before that city’s confinement began. She would have been exposed at that city. I saw her a day later when she arrived at my city. 4 days later I had a sore throat. For 1 hour. This was treated by gargling salt water and running outside in the cold rain for 10 miles.

As for life time immunity, I'M being optimistic. But 1 year later, and I have massive amount of antibodies.

The truth is that covid19 is new and remains poorly understood. The experts do not know. But the confirmed cases of covid19 reinfection remains around 1 in 1 million. Of the 100 million plus infected, only around 100 confirmed reifection. Data available on WHO website.

At around 1 in a million, optimism is justified. For those who were reinfected, it’s a good guess that they have other underlying health issues that have damaged their immune system : extreme old age , alcoolism, cancer, diabetes, high level of stress, etc.

My question for you is why does lope damage the hearts of some people but not others ?

Is it dosage? Time of use? Underlying health problems? Lack of exercise ? I've looked at some studies--medical research , and nobody seems to know.

I was very thoroughly checked weeks ago, and my heart is in excellent shape. I was tested twice. The day I quit and a few weeks later. This despite using lope at recreational levels every day for 2 years.

 

[MsDiz]

I admit maybe not life-time immunity. I most likely had it about 1 year ago, and I have a lot of antibodies. I had a serological test done weeks ago. The doc confirmed it and I have the lab results as proof.

I believe it was 1 year ago, end of January, because that’s when China closed its borders and isolated Wuhan . My gf flew in from Wuhan days before that city’s confinement began. She would have been exposed at that city. I saw her a day later when she arrived at my city. 4 days later I had a sore throat. For 1 hour. This was treated by gargling salt water and running outside in the cold rain for 10 miles.

As for life time immunity, I'M being optimistic. But 1 year later, and I have massive amount of antibodies.

The truth is that covid19 is new and remains poorly understood. The experts do not know. But the confirmed cases of covid19 reinfection remains around 1 in 1 million. Of the 100 million plus infected, only around 100 confirmed reifection. Data available on WHO website.

At around 1 in a million, optimism is justified. For those who were reinfected, it’s a good guess that they have other underlying health issues that have damaged their immune system : extreme old age , alcoolism, cancer, diabetes, high level of stress, etc.

My question for you is why does lope damage the hearts of some people but not others ?

Is it dosage? Time of use? Underlying health problems? Lack of exercise ? I've looked at some studies--medical research , and nobody seems to know.

I was very thoroughly checked weeks ago, and my heart is in excellent shape. I was tested twice. The day I quit and a few weeks later. This despite using lope at recreational levels every day for 2 years.

You “think” you got covid a year ago. You could have easily caught it a few months ago and had no symptoms. It’s highly contagious and there are a high amount of asymptomatic carriers. You could have been one, easily. Of course you will have antibodies. They will last you 3/6 months but to think you’ve lifetime immunity is beyond optimistic.

Please do not think that loperamide has ANY had anything to do with your not having symptoms. It has not. Taking high amounts may not have caused an issue YET but you are pushing it. You are risking your life every time you take those high amounts. It builds up in your system and you will overload it eventually.

 

[SpaceWanderer]

... They will last you 3/6 months but to think you’ve lifetime immunity is beyond optimistic.

That figure is speculation. Covid19 is new. Therefore there is not much data on it. There is too little data to conclude thay antibodies last only 3 -6 months. Any scientist who says that is hypothesizing. Furthermore, the immune system does not act in such a weak manner in healthy people. Memory cells are capable of producing antibodies for a life-time, even when exposed to the antigen during childhood. The fact that there are only 100 cases of reinfection should assure a person with some basic knowledge . Poor health of course weakens the response.
January a year ago is a reasonable assumption. It's the only time I was directly exposed. The only time I had a symptom. My region has been under strict confinement or curfew since then. Everybody wears a mask and practices socual distancing.
As for your assertion that loperamide didn't keep me from getting sick, you’re wrong. Before lope, I had at least 5 bad colds a year. When I was taking it, I didn't catch anything despite being exposed to colds and flu. Perfect health for 2 years. Never in my life have I gone so long without getting so much as a cold.

Once again, my heart was thoroughly checked twice after quitting lope. My heart wasn’t damaged. I have the heart of a marathon runner. Doc said so.

 

[Nagelfar]

…
So while a lope fiend, I never got symptoms. I didn't get sick. Before taking up lope, I would get colds that kept me in bed for days. With lope, I have the immune system of a champion.

I don't usually like putting my two-cents in about this; being a moderator and concerning myself with at least emulating what should be conduct conducive of an example or beacon for harm reduction.

Especially when it comes to me adding content which prospectively risks inspiring a constituency whose basic portfolio tends to consist of whom are with propensity to be addicts. I am wanting to be even only seeming to try and maintain some façade of a precedent-setter in that regard. (By “façade” I do not mean deceptive or disingenuous misdirection, but simply my outermost presentation)

Loperamide was my drug of choice daily for three years, doing, roughly, at least 200mg a day (one 96 ct. bottle usually) almost never more than twice that (but sometimes I actually did: upper limit that I never crossed was a gram and a quarter in 48 hrs which almost killed me. EMT in parking lot got me before unconsciousness so I informed them it was an “opioid” that wouldn't show on a test. Consequently I was Narcan'd five times, in ICU, in ten minute intervals)

Regardless I certainly took more loperamide than “for 4—5 days max” I am not exaggerating in the least. Three years and over ten grand worth of shoplifted product. In my area nobody carries the large number bottles, for many cities around, anymore; at least four retailers stopped carrying it. Even card membership wholesalers put it behind the counter - even though it's OTC. I didn't do this quite single-handedly, several of my running buddies caught on and we'd work in tandem to do "lope runs". I was locked up for two years after doing it for three (on completely unrelated charges, only ever had ineffectual run-ins with loss prevention scheming to get free loperamide. To me: basically heroin on a shelf) when I got out and was released to a new county of origin, those locations quit carrying it by then. I was brazen enough to ask the sales people, who confirmed, they quit carrying those count boxes very recently.

I digress. I, much like when doing heroin, never got sick when taking it. The withdrawals were easier than Suboxone and the maintenance high was better, it didn't show up on a UA and it wasn't even illegal to possess. Unlike Suboxone it would do more than block the craving, I could get higher if I took more, I was subjectively immune to hot and cold, all the benefits of all full agonist.

After dealing with Suboxone, if I were to do anything else to come off an opioid, it would be loperamide. I would purchase a CostCo card for their 400 ct. boxes, which here you can only buy one a day, behind the counter, without a prescription. One lasts me half a week for less than $6.00, which would be at least $80 from the heroin dealer.

Because Suboxone is a mixed inverse agonist with a full inverse agonist as an extra active ingredient, taking Suboxone after will precipitate withdrawal. It would take large amounts of loperamide to jump from Suboxone but I tried this recently and it works (my usual, "single", dose), due possibly to the nature of Suboxone it actually took two days or so to get the full effect, but it felt closer to a heroin high than to my 'staying normal' of my regular Suboxone dose, no fatigue, warm tingly sensation, unlimited proactive initiative, mind is disconnected from result or prospect of hard labor and you go about your merry way and a full days exertion amounts to an emotional taxation of nought.

 

[Xorkoth]

I don't usually like putting my two-cents in about this; being a moderator and concerning myself with at least emulating what should be conduct conducive of an example or beacon for harm reduction.

Especially when it comes to me adding content which prospectively risks inspiring a constituency whose basic portfolio tends to consist of whom are with propensity to be addicts. I am wanting to be even only seeming to try and maintain some façade of a precedent-setter in that regard. (By “façade” I do not mean deceptive or disingenuous misdirection, but simply my outermost presentation)

Loperamide was my drug of choice daily for three years, doing, roughly, at least 200mg a day (one 96 ct. bottle usually) almost never more than twice that (but sometimes I actually did: upper limit that I never crossed was a gram and a quarter in 48 hrs which almost killed me. EMT in parking lot got me before unconsciousness so I informed them it was an “opioid” that wouldn't show on a test. Consequently I was Narcan'd five times, in ICU, in ten minute intervals)

Regardless I certainly took more loperamide than “for 4—5 days max” I am not exaggerating in the least. Three years and over ten grand worth of shoplifted product. In my area nobody carries the large number bottles, for many cities around, anymore; at least four retailers stopped carrying it. Even card membership wholesalers put it behind the counter - even though it's OTC. I didn't do this quite single-handedly, several of my running buddies caught on and we'd work in tandem to do "lope runs". I was locked up for two years after doing it for three (on completely unrelated charges, only ever had ineffectual run-ins with loss prevention scheming to get free loperamide. To me: basically heroin on a shelf) when I got out and was released to a new county of origin, those locations quit carrying it by then. I was brazen enough to ask the sales people, who confirmed, they quit carrying those count boxes very recently.

I digress. I, much like when doing heroin, never got sick when taking it. The withdrawals were easier than Suboxone and the maintenance high was better, it didn't show up on a UA and it wasn't even illegal to possess. Unlike Suboxone it would do more than block the craving, I could get higher if I took more, I was subjectively immune to hot and cold, all the benefits of all full agonist.

After dealing with Suboxone, if I were to do anything else to come off an opioid, it would be loperamide. I would purchase a CostCo card for their 400 ct. boxes, which here you can only buy one a day, behind the counter, without a prescription. One lasts me half a week for less than $6.00, which would be at least $80 from the heroin dealer.

Because Suboxone is a mixed inverse agonist with a full inverse agonist as an extra active ingredient, taking Suboxone after will precipitate withdrawal. It would take large amounts of loperamide to jump from Suboxone but I tried this recently and it works (my usual, "single", dose), due possibly to the nature of Suboxone it actually took two days or so to get the full effect, but it felt closer to a heroin high than to my 'staying normal' of my regular Suboxone dose, no fatigue, warm tingly sensation, unlimited proactive initiative, mind is disconnected from result or prospect of hard labor and you go about your merry way and a full days exertion amounts to an emotional taxation of nought.

Wow, that's crazy. I have never gotten actually high from lope, but it can make me go from feeling withdrawals to nearly fully comfortable. But then I've never taken more than 80mg, and when I've taken it recently for withdrawals I have never gone above 40mg. It makes my insides feel like a parched desert, moreso than other opioids do. It even makes it hurt to swallow sometimes because my esophagus seems to work less well due to being so dry.

 

[MsDiz]

As for your assertion that loperamide didn't keep me from getting sick, you’re wrong. Before lope, I had at least 5 bad colds a year. When I was taking it, I didn't catch anything despite being exposed to colds and flu. Perfect health for 2 years. Never in my life have I gone so long without getting so much as a cold.

Once again, my heart was thoroughly checked twice after quitting lope. My heart wasn’t damaged. I have the heart of a marathon runner. Doc said so.

All I’m going to leave you with is this.

Any scientist who says that is hypothesizing.

You can’t conclude that loperamide is the reason you aren’t getting sick.

In regards to HR, I’m advising you to lower your dose. It’s your choice but I also warn you that whilst your heart may be fine now that does not guarantee the future.

 

[Nagelfar]

Wow, that's crazy. I have never gotten actually high from lope, but it can make me go from feeling withdrawals to nearly fully comfortable. But then I've never taken more than 80mg, and when I've taken it recently for withdrawals I have never gone above 40mg. It makes my insides feel like a parched desert, moreso than other opioids do. It even makes it hurt to swallow sometimes because my esophagus seems to work less well due to being so dry.

Dry mouth is a problem at first, but living on the street walking all day helps bowel motility and I just drink a lot of water for the first day or two then I balance out. Have bowel movements daily on 100 tablets / 200mg a day. (height 5'8", at the time roughly 135 lbs. The past year being only on prescribed psychotropics and Suboxone I gained *a lot* during quarantine, last clinic visit I weighed 210 lbs — which I realized recently is exactly 15 stone to the British among us. The one time recently I tried about 240mg loperamide at that weight I threw up misrrably within three hours, and didn't feel it until the next two days after. I am still on 0.5mg buprenorphine so that likely had more to do with it than my weight but I thought that was worth noting.)

200mg is equivalent for me, concerning the high, as a twenty bag of heroin. It does take one to three hours to kick in; probably how long it takes it to overwhelm p-glycoprotein, it's substrate, and saturate the BBB.

 

[MsDiz]

Dry mouth is a problem at first, but living on the street walking all day helps bowel motility and I just drink a lot of water for the first day or two then I balance out. Have bowel movements daily on 100 tablets / 200mg a day.

200mg is equivalent for me, concerning the high, as a twenty bag of heroin. It does take one to three hours to kick in; probably how long it takes it to overwhelm p-glycoprotein, it's substrate, and saturate the BBB.

That’s scary amounts. I’m so glad you are ok.

I’ve watched accidental ODs in the A&E of loperamide where the patient did not make it. Although obviously there were other factors but it was the heart issue due to loperamide that was the final nail in the coffin as it were.

 

[Nagelfar]

Yes sudden death is a potential side-effect. Something I told a user friend whom was scared away by that fact, though: sudden death is also a known side-effect of heroin.

Heroin also in recent history hasn't been considered by medicinal journals as one of the “top ten indispensable OTC medicines” of modern times and doesn't have a pharma corp. actively trying to keep it from having any black marks against it, and support any research that comes out to dissuade it from becoming a major player in the opioid epidemic — upon being booked in county jail explaining that I needed the detox housing, and being told in no uncertain terms by an arrogant on duty specialist that "there are no over-the-counter opiates", ignorance is bliss, wouldn't even listen to my succinct explanation and dismissed me as some ignorant junkie.

 

[Skorpio]

That’s scary amounts. I’m so glad you are ok.

I’ve watched accidental ODs in the A&E of loperamide where the patient did not make it. Although obviously there were other factors but it was the heart issue due to loperamide that was the final nail in the coffin as it were.

Is the toxicity from hERG channel inhibition chronic? (not referring to letting dose levels sneak up over time until we is wide enough to drive a car through it, as that is a very real risk with a habit) Isn't torsades de pointes a fairly binary occurance?

 

[MsDiz]

Is the toxicity from hERG channel inhibition chronic? (not referring to letting dose levels sneak up over time until we is wide enough to drive a car through it, as that is a very real risk with a habit) Isn't torsades de pointes a fairly binary occurance?

I just want to say I’ve seen this and I’m going to reply when I’ve more time.

 

[SpaceWanderer]

I

All I’m going to leave you with is this.

You can’t conclude that loperamide is the reason you aren’t getting sick.

In regards to HR, I’m advising you to lower your dose. It’s your choice but I also warn you that whilst your heart may be fine now that does not guarantee the future.

Not sure if you followed all of my comment. I explained in my first post that I quit loperamide over a month ago. I quit because I realise the risks to the heart and the rectum. You are right about the risks. I understand them.

What I came here for is to find out why I never got sick when I was taking it. Or other opiates.

You are correct that I can’t conclude lope is why I didn't get sick, but a number of people report the same thing. And there is that in vitro study mentioned at the beginning of the thread. For these reasons it is reasonable to ask wether loperamide or opiates have an effect on immune system. As in strengthening it .

I also want to know why some people have damage to their hearts while others don’t. Is it bad luck ? Is it dosage ? Metabolism ? Does anybody know? I can find nothing in the medical literature. Why it didn't affect my heart I don’t know.

Nagelfar reports the same experience. He never got sick either. But he almost killed his heart.

Quitting is hard if you don’t taper. I've read that it's worse than heroin withdrawals simply because WDs last weeks for lope. Maybe 5 days for heroin. Wouldn't be terrible if it lasted only 24 hours.

I went from loperamide to 300 mg morphine sulfate the next day. Injected into my arm, the morphine had no effect on me other than to reduce the WDs.

Tapering off the morphine now. Down to 30 mg morphine per day. This is much easier than quitting lope. Or kratom. And no more loperamide.

 

[MsDiz]

I

Not sure if you followed all of my comment. I explained in my first post that I quit loperamide over a month ago. I quit because I realise the risks to the heart and the rectum. You are right about the risks. I understand them.

What I came here for is to find out why I never got sick when I was taking it. Or other opiates.

I also want to know why some people have damage to their hearts while others don’t. Is it bad luck ? Is it dosage ? Metabolism ? Does anybody know? I can find nothing in the medical literature. Why it didn't affect my heart I don’t know.

Nagelfar reports the same experience. He never got sick either. But he almost killed his heart.

Quitting is hard if you don’t taper. I've read that it's worse than heroin withdrawals simply because WDs last weeks for lope. Maybe 5 days for heroin. Wouldn't be terrible if it lasted only 24 hours.

I went from loperamide to 300 mg morphine sulfate the next day. Injected into my arm, the morphine had no effect on me other than to reduce the WDs.

Tapering off the morphine now. Down to 30 mg morphine per day.

I didn’t see that you’d quit and I’m glad you have. Good luck with your taper.

 

[SpaceWanderer]

I don't usually like putting my two-cents in about this; being a moderator and concerning myself with at least emulating what should be conduct conducive of an example or beacon for harm reduction.

Especially when it comes to me adding content which prospectively risks inspiring a constituency whose basic portfolio tends to consist of whom are with propensity to be addicts. I am wanting to be even only seeming to try and maintain some façade of a precedent-setter in that regard. (By “façade” I do not mean deceptive or disingenuous misdirection, but simply my outermost presentation)

Loperamide was my drug of choice daily for three years, doing, roughly, at least 200mg a day (one 96 ct. bottle usually) almost never more than twice that (but sometimes I actually did: upper limit that I never crossed was a gram and a quarter in 48 hrs which almost killed me. EMT in parking lot got me before unconsciousness so I informed them it was an “opioid” that wouldn't show on a test. Consequently I was Narcan'd five times, in ICU, in ten minute intervals)

Regardless I certainly took more loperamide than “for 4—5 days max” I am not exaggerating in the least. Three years and over ten grand worth of shoplifted product. In my area nobody carries the large number bottles, for many cities around, anymore; at least four retailers stopped carrying it. Even card membership wholesalers put it behind the counter - even though it's OTC. I didn't do this quite single-handedly, several of my running buddies caught on and we'd work in tandem to do "lope runs". I was locked up for two years after doing it for three (on completely unrelated charges, only ever had ineffectual run-ins with loss prevention scheming to get free loperamide. To me: basically heroin on a shelf) when I got out and was released to a new county of origin, those locations quit carrying it by then. I was brazen enough to ask the sales people, who confirmed, they quit carrying those count boxes very recently.

I digress. I, much like when doing heroin, never got sick when taking it. The withdrawals were easier than Suboxone and the maintenance high was better, it didn't show up on a UA and it wasn't even illegal to possess. Unlike Suboxone it would do more than block the craving, I could get higher if I took more, I was subjectively immune to hot and cold, all the benefits of all full agonist.

After dealing with Suboxone, if I were to do anything else to come off an opioid, it would be loperamide. I would purchase a CostCo card for their 400 ct. boxes, which here you can only buy one a day, behind the counter, without a prescription. One lasts me half a week for less than $6.00, which would be at least $80 from the heroin dealer.

Because Suboxone is a mixed inverse agonist with a full inverse agonist as an extra active ingredient, taking Suboxone after will precipitate withdrawal. It would take large amounts of loperamide to jump from Suboxone but I tried this recently and it works (my usual, "single", dose), due possibly to the nature of Suboxone it actually took two days or so to get the full effect, but it felt closer to a heroin high than to my 'staying normal' of my regular Suboxone dose, no fatigue, warm tingly sensation, unlimited proactive initiative, mind is disconnected from result or prospect of hard labor and you go about your merry way and a full days exertion amounts to an emotional taxation of nought.

I'm glad you're okay. Do you have long term damage to your heart ?

For me, it’s better than heroin simply because I never had to dose more than once a day. I still prefer Mexican brown over lope, but lope is better then east coast powder.

I suspect the lope and opiates really are helping the immune system. Too bad there is no research on the subject.

 

[SpaceWanderer]

I didn’t see that you’d quit and I’m glad you have. Good luck with your taper.

Thanks.

 

[Nagelfar]

I'm glad you're okay. Do you have long term damage to your heart ?

No, during that three years of use I had three running buddies who used the same amount as me daily for the same amount of time and we're all fine. In fact I didn't even use it the longest of those three, but I went over 200mg the most.

 

[MsDiz]

Is the toxicity from hERG channel inhibition chronic?

The hERG channel is very susceptible to drug binding which I’m sure you know, loperamide significantly prolongs the action potential duration.

Isn't torsades de pointes a fairly binary occurance?

Well look, torsades is usually self terminating, you do have a real risk of VF though and SCD can and does occur. When you have a presentation of torsades IV Mg is usually the go to from memory. (Obviously along with discontinuation of the drug.)

 

[Skorpio]

The hERG channel is very susceptible to drug binding which I’m sure you know, loperamide significantly prolongs the action potential duration.

Well look, torsades is usually self terminating, you do have a real risk of VF though and SCD can and does occur. When you have a presentation of torsades IV Mg is usually the go to from memory. (Obviously along with discontinuation of the drug.)

I guess my question is that if hERG is inhibited without causing torsades (which without medical attention is pretty close to a death sentence) going to induce like cardiac hypertrophy or some other nasty more permanent effect.

Like a month ago I was shown the rough SAR for the hERG binding site. The pharmacophore kind of looked like a slice of pizza pointed upwards, with big aryl or other fatty groups at verticies (especially the bottom 2) and a protonatable tweet nitrogen in the middle. (I'm no med chemist but always love learning simple SAR).

 

[MsDiz]

I guess my question is that if hERG is inhibited without causing torsades (which without medical attention is pretty close to a death sentence) going to induce like cardiac hypertrophy or some other nasty more permanent effect.

Like a month ago I was shown the rough SAR for the hERG binding site. The pharmacophore kind of looked like a slice of pizza pointed upwards, with big aryl or other fatty groups at verticies (especially the bottom 2) and a protonatable tweet nitrogen in the middle. (I'm no med chemist but always love learning simple SAR).

When hERG is inhibited it will cause torsades. You might find this interesting though.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.116.024279

 

[Skorpio]

When hERG is inhibited it will cause torsades. You might find this interesting though.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.116.024279

That's interesting, didn't know about it but makes total sense when comparing to sulfonylurea inhibition of ATP sensitive K channels to increase insulin release.


I feel in the interest of harm reduction this needs to be said even if it is really obvious: nobody should be using hERG channel blockers to control glucose levels.