Lookimg for advice on safe and effective CWE levels

[CMH]

Hi guys,

Just looking for some basic advice on CWE for someone I know well.

They are currently trying to use CWE with prescription panadeine forte tabs (30 mg codeine) but the results are always negligible.

They are using 8 tabs (240 mg codeine) and using a technique read on the website:

Crush tabs, mix into half glass warm/hotish water (not boiling) cool in freezer and fridge (not allowing it to freeze), and straining with paper coffee strainer.


The first thing they notice is the mix is still a little cloudy - never water clear like pictures they have seen on the web.

Secondly, they are experiencing little to zero affect after they use the CWE extract?

Is 8 x 30mg codeine considered weak based on potential tolerance levels? Or is it more likely the way they are processing the CWE?

Just for dosage/tolerance perspective, they are currently using no other drugs. They have been addicted to Tramal and Oxycontin in the past and now avoid these stronger prescribed opioids. Their past tramal usage peak at 900MG a day with major issues including regular seizures and lead to loss of employment and basically turning their life upside. They have never tried illegal opioids as they think there will be no turning back.

So, for a person with historically high tolerance for morphine pathway agonists, is 8x30mg codeine via CWE too low a dose for any real impact?


All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

Depending on the brand of pills, the binders used may make it through to your final solution making it cloudy. This is not an indication that the technique was wrong. As long as there aren't any noticeable solids in the final product it should be ok.

How long has your friend been sober from the oxy/trams? A month should drop their tolerance levels significantly and it shouldn't be an issue after that.

I find Mr. Blonde's CWE method better than the Erowid one:

Mr Blonde's CWE: 1) If using Nurofen + or a similarly hard tablet, they may be ground in a coffee grinder; most other codeine combo meds dissolve quite quickly by themselves i.e. just drop into a glass of cool water. The least amount of water possible should be used; 50mL for 24 tablets of 10mg codeine/500mg APAP or more will work. For preparations known to be more ‘sludgy’ (e.g. N+, certain codeine/APAP brands), the amount of water used can be increased. At most only 150-200mL of water should be used.

2) Once the tablets are dissolved, stir them and then place your filter over a cup. Coffee filters or lab filters may be used, but do take time to let the solution through. A shirt made of fabric that isn't too thin can be used also. The filter should be made damp with water, as this allows the solution to pass through easier.

3) Pour the solution through the filter, and wait until the stream of filtered solution slows to droplets. The filter may then be squeezed to extract any remaining liquid. NOTE: If you have use a shirt or other fabric as your filter, it is advisable to then filter the solution through coffee filters to ensure there is little to no paracetamol/ibuprofen in the solution.

4) That’s it! Dispose of the liquid by drinking, and dispose of the filtrate (paracetamol/ibuprofen) in your bin. Some users also do a second extraction on the paracetamol/ibuprofen left behind.

By using warm water, you initially dissolve more paracetamol/ibuprofen into the solution, I don't know if it will all precipitate out again as it cools. I use cold (almost freezing) water to dissolve my pills and the solution is nearly always clear at the end.

I rarely use CWE so I don't have tolerance issues, but I have always found < 300mgs to be very weak. This obviously won't be the same for everyone, but try upping the dose a little.

There will also be some loss of codeine.

 

[CMH]

Thanks heaps for the info mate.

After reading some other threads it is most likely the dose is just too low. But how do people maintain higher dosers now that all OTC codeine product purchases are databased?

For ease of reference we will just use SWIM like most do as is easier to refer to the other person we have in mind, but SWIM wants to get by using only codeine and not elevate to more powerful prescribed Opioids (again). The fact is opioids are not just recreational for SWIM, they genuinely help with symptoms of comorbid mental illness including GAD, MDD and Dysthymia/DD which have required multiple past hospitalisation. SWIM has a very high level of insight both from life experience and a psych degree and knows they are walking a tightrope, as the purpose is professionally seen as misuse and the volume as abuse. So wtf do they do lol because it simply works better than any SSRI,SNRI, Tri or tetra cyclic and/or psychotherapy, CBT or other intervention therapy.

 

[Halif]

Hi CMH

I don't want to start breaking BlueLight rules pertaining to helping people acquire drugs, but as a general statement: Purchases of codeine containing products are recorded sporadically (ie. some busy pharmacies don't bother because it's simply too time consuming), and the recorded details are not cross-checked. In other words, someone could simply walk into several different pharmacies and pick up a few packs of codeine containing painkillers within minutes.

There have been a few articles about people abusing Neurofen Plus in the newspapers recently. It's very sad because the article focused on people who don't know about cold water extractions and are simply taking the whole tablets with ibuprofen and all. Anyway, I mention that because as it said in the articles, people just visit a few different pharmacies on a daily basis to get the tablets. The recording system only really 'catches' people who go to the SAME place too frequently.

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

SWIM isn't allowed here mate.

Further, the use of ineffective self-incrimination avoidance terms is forbidden. Terms include but are not limited to: SWIM; my dog; my cat; a mouse; my pet hamster.

There are OTC products with higher codeine doses (15mg is the highest I think) and they don't require a script. A 24 pack is around 360mg and is a good dose IME (YMMV). If you're not using constantly, tolerance doesn't become an issue and it's fairly easy to maintain. Not all chemists database when you buy codeine and even if they do, not all databases are linked.

 

[Stevenski]

I use occasionally these days but at a minimum I go with 400mg. Anywhere from 300-450mg I think is a good strong dose for someone with no tolerance & going to 450-600mg brings a nice nod for me at least (when potentiated appropriately). Mr Blonde's method is the one I currently use & it saved my life I am certain.

 

[Halif]

Mr Blonde's method is the one I currently use & it saved my life I am certain.

It's always good to hear feedback like that and I hope that Mr B somehow hears that his contribution to this site is appreciated and has had positive impact for some people.

It makes me cringe when I hear about people who have picked up a habit to codeine but haven't heard about CWE and are just eating the whole pills not knowing how damaging it is, or not being able to stop anyway. CWE techniques should be put up in places where people can see it - pharmacies, doctor's offices, etc. But of course that wouldn't happen because it would be condoning an illegal practice.

Very sad that life-saving information is suppressed in favour of a "just say no" type of approach.

 

[bobbydarren]

Thanks heaps for the info mate.

The fact is opioids are not just recreational for SWIM, they genuinely help with symptoms of comorbid mental illness including GAD,... because it simply works better than any SSRI,SNRI, Tri or tetra cyclic and/or psychotherapy, CBT or other intervention therapy.

Have to agree. Opiate days are when i'm much lively much more productive physically, and anxiety relating to GAD, including social phobia is almost cured. Ironically when not on opiates I can become completely socially isolated and there are days I worry to much to even dare leave the house. Benzos don't help me in the same way.

 

[CMH]

Thanks for all the info guys, this is really a very helpful website, I've learned so much just reading through all the threads over the past couple of days. People are so honest here.

Totally out of curiosity, why is an acrynom like swim not allowed - Is it because of the way it de-pesonalises the community and sounds sorta farcical?

There has been some good research done on the anxiolytic properties of opioids, and also their efficacy for mood disorders, both directly and as an agonist for anti-depressants that target serotonin. Cant see it being scheduled any time soon though due to concern over tolerance and addictiveness outweighing the benefits, not that anyone here wouldnt already know that ofc . If anyone is interested in a light read there was a good paper by Berrocoso E, and Mico IA (2009) originally published by Cambridge University Press about opioids and anti-depressants.

Thanks again

 

[footscrazy]

^ SWIM isn't allowed mainly because it's ineffective. It doesn't prevent incrimination, and since it's redundant, the decision was made to avoid it because it makes paragraphs harder to read.

From the BLUA:

Specifically, you may not:

use Bluelight in any way, shape or form for unlawful purposes, including, without limitation: attempting to solicit or obtain contraband substances or substances of a quasi-legal status; or information on how to do so; posting or exchanging any information on ongoing or future criminal activity, or any information which can be construed as discussing such activity; actively encouraging others to engage in criminal activities. Further, the use of ineffective self-incrimination avoidance terms is forbidden. Terms include but are not limited to: SWIM; my dog; my cat; a mouse; my pet hamster.

 

[JeanJM]

Hi CMH

I don't want to start breaking BlueLight rules pertaining to helping people acquire drugs, but as a general statement: Purchases of codeine containing products are recorded sporadically (ie. some busy pharmacies don't bother because it's simply too time consuming), and the recorded details are not cross-checked. In other words, someone could simply walk into several different pharmacies and pick up a few packs of codeine containing painkillers within minutes.

There have been a few articles about people abusing Neurofen Plus in the newspapers recently. It's very sad because the article focused on people who don't know about cold water extractions and are simply taking the whole tablets with ibuprofen and all. Anyway, I mention that because as it said in the articles, people just visit a few different pharmacies on a daily basis to get the tablets. The recording system only really 'catches' people who go to the SAME place too frequently.

Read this ridiculous article:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/life-style/7747033/Code-Red

 

[junkie skumbag]

Hi guys,

Just looking for some basic advice on CWE for someone I know well.

They are currently trying to use CWE with prescription panadeine forte tabs (30 mg codeine) but the results are always negligible.

They are using 8 tabs (240 mg codeine) and using a technique read on the website:

Crush tabs, mix into half glass warm/hotish water (not boiling) cool in freezer and fridge (not allowing it to freeze), and straining with paper coffee strainer.


The first thing they notice is the mix is still a little cloudy - never water clear like pictures they have seen on the web.

Secondly, they are experiencing little to zero affect after they use the CWE extract?

Is 8 x 30mg codeine considered weak based on potential tolerance levels? Or is it more likely the way they are processing the CWE?

Just for dosage/tolerance perspective, they are currently using no other drugs. They have been addicted to Tramal and Oxycontin in the past and now avoid these stronger prescribed opioids. Their past tramal usage peak at 900MG a day with major issues including regular seizures and lead to loss of employment and basically turning their life upside. They have never tried illegal opioids as they think there will be no turning back.

So, for a person with historically high tolerance for morphine pathway agonists, is 8x30mg codeine via CWE too low a dose for any real impact?


All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated.

first of all you need to use 2ml of water per tablet so half a glass of hot water would let WAY too much APAP through the filters (rember the more water used the more APAP that gets through) secondly you dont use hot water use luke warm to cool water high temperatures can destroy codeine.thirdly you may be one of those unlucky fuckers without the certin enzyme in there liver meaning you have to use higher ammounts of opiates to get a affect (im not telling you to go out and do a 1.2 gram CWE but u may need a higher dose than 200something.hell when i first started using codeine my dose was 360mg) maybe take a potiantor with your codeine? i find promethazine works great.........thats my 2 cents also i find double filtering (placing one filter into another the pouring the solution through that really helps and last filter through a single filter leaves my CWE looking like water :D

 

[puffpuffpass]

I don't know if it has been said already but you should first test for allergies, correct me if I'm wrong but ~60mg two fortes would bring out symptoms.

I would start at 120mg and keep it as low as possible for as long as you can, I have abused the shit out of codeine for way too long and now I don't enjoy it.