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Lobeline for treating Nicotine Dep in Opioid Addict?

Hammilton

Hammilton

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Joined
Sep 2, 2008
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I was considering giving lobeling a shot to stop smoking, but according to wikipedia, it's a mu antagonist. True or False?

Is it potent enough that I'd have to worry while on Suboxone?
 
permastoned said:
I just smoked a cigarette's worth of it. It was nice and relaxing and slightly euphoric. No noticeable antagonism of my suboxone, but I am on the highest dose (32mg).
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That's fucking brilliant, lobelia cigarettes for smoking cessation.

Duke's Handbook of Medicinal Herbs (2002) gives the following idea for testing one's tolerability:

APA gives [lobelia] their negative 5 rating, “definite health
hazard to using this substance internally, even in recommended amounts.” I’d consider the risks of
smoking versus the risk of lobeline and might opt for the lobeline, perhaps first trying transdermal
lobelia plants taped to my arm.
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Interesting this has been brought up. I might be getting some of this plant next week and wondering if it may help me (especially with alcohol)...

Any more info would be appreciated...
 
Are you talking about the herb Lobelia or an extract of Lobeline?

Using Lobelia as a way to quit smoking is actually something that has been commonly advocated for decades. Its a muscle relaxant and helps negate the side effects of tobacco withdrawals. Its effects are stimulant, antispasmodic, expectorant, diaphoretic, relaxant, nauseant, sedative, diuretic, and nervine (From Wiki).
 
This is the complete entry from Duke 2002 for Lobelia inflata:

Activities (Lobelia) — Analeptic (1; PH2); Antiasthmatic (1; CAN; CRC); Anticholinesterase
(1; JAD); Antispasmodic (1; APA; CRC; HHB; PED); Antiviral (f; APA); CNS Stimulant (1;
CAN); Convulsant (f; CRC); Diaphoretic (f; CRC; PNC); Diuretic (1; FNF; MAD; PED); Emetic
(1; APA; CAN; WAM); Euphoric (f; CRC); Expectorant (1; APA; CAN; HHB; WAM); Laxative
(f; PED); Myorelaxant (1; APA; FEL); Nervine (f; CRC; PED); Respirastimulant (1; CAN; PHR;
PH2); Sedative (1; CRC; PED; WAM); Sialagogue (f; CRC; FEL); Stimulant (f; CRC); Tranquilizer
(1; CRC).

Indications (Lobelia) — Abscess (f; DEM); Acne (f; JLH); Addiction (1; CRC; PHR); Alcoholism
(f; CRC; DEM); Alopecia (f; CRC); Alzheimer’s (1; JAD); Amenorrhea (f; CRC); Angina (f; CRC;
FEL); Apoplexy (f; FEL); Asphyxia, neonatal (f; MAD); Asthma (1; APA; CAN; CRC; PHR; PH2);
Atony (f; FEL); Bite (f; DEM); Boil (f; PNC); Bronchiectasis (f; MAD); Bronchosis (1; APA;
CAN; CRC; HHB); Bruise (f; APA); Bug Bite (f; APA; PED); Cancer (f; CRC; JLH); Cancer,
breast (f; CRC; JLH); Cardiopathy (f; APA; FEL); Catarrh (f; CEB; MAD); Chancre (f; DEM);
Childbirth (f; CRC); Chorea (f; CRC; FEL); Cold (f; APA); Colic (f; DEM); Constipation (f; PED);
Convulsion (f; CRC); Cough (1; CRC; FAD; WAM); Cramp (1; APA; CRC; FEL; HHB; MAD;
PED); Croup (f; CRC); Deafness (f; CRC); Debility (f; CRC); Dermatosis (f; HHB); Diarrhea (f;
CRC); Diphtheria (f; CRC); Divination (f; DEM); Dysentery (f; CRC); Dysmenorrhea (f; CRC;
MAD); Dyspepsia (f; CRC; FEL; MAD); Dyspnea (f; MAD); Dysuria (f; CRC); Earache (f; CRC);
Eczema (f; FEL); Emphysema (f; CRC); Encephalosis (f; MAD); Epilepsy (f; CRC; DEM; MAD);
Erysipelas (f; CRC; FEL); Esophagosis (f; MAD); Faintness (f; CRC); Felon (f; JLH); Fever (f;
CRC; FAD; PNC); Flu (f; APA); Gallstone (f; CRC); Gastrosis (f; CRC; MAD); Hangover (f;
CRC); Hay Fever (f; CRC; HHB); Headache (f; CRC; MAD); Heart (f; CRC); Hemorrhoid (f;
CRC); Hepatosis (f; CRC; MAD); Hernia (f; CEB; CRC); Hydrophobia (f; CRC); Hyperemesis
(f; MAD); Hypertony (f; MAD); Hysteria (f; CRC); Infection (f; MAD); Inflammation (f; FEL);
Insomnia (1; CRC; PED; WAM); Jaundice (f; CEB; MAD); Laryngosis (1; FEL; PED); Measles
(f; CEB); Meningosis (f; CRC); Morning Sickness (f; CRC); Morphinism (f; CRC); Mucososis (1;
WAM); Myososis (f; PED); Narcosis (f; CRC); Nausea (f; CRC); Nephrosis (f; CRC); Nervousness
(1; CRC; MAD; PED; WAM); Neuralgia (f; CRC; FEL; MAD); Neurasthenia (f; MAD); Nicotinism
(1; CAN; CRC; PHR); Ophthalmia (f; CRC); Pain (1; CRC; DEM); Palpitation (f; CRC); Periostosis
(f; CRC); Peritonosis (f; CRC); Pertussis (1; APA; CRC; HHB; PED); Phrenosis (f; CRC); Phthisis
(f; DEM); Pleurisy (f; CRC); Pneumonia (f; CRC; FEL; MAD); Poison Ivy (f; APA; CRC; PED);
Psoriasis (f; CRC); Pulmonosis (f; MAD); Respirosis (1; CRC; WAM); Rheumatism (f; FEL; PED);
Ringworm (f; APA); Seborrhea (f; CRC); Shock (f; HHB); Shoulder (f; CRC); Smoking (1; PH2;
PNC); Sore (f; DEM; PNC); Sore Throat (1; FAD; FEL); Spasm (f; CRC; FEL); Sprain (f; APA);
Sting (f; DEM; FEL); Stomatosis (f; HHB); Tetanus (f; CEB; CRC; FEL); Tonsilosis (f; CRC);
Tuberculosis (f; CEB); Typhoid (f; DEM); Urethrosis (f; CRC); Vaginosis (f; CRC); VD (f; DEM);
Vertigo (f; MAD); Virus (f; APA); Wart (f; HHB; JLH); Water Retention (1; FNF; MAD; PED);
Wen (f; CRC). Not covered by Commission E (KOM).

Dosages (Lobelia) — 100 mg leaf as expectorant (AHP); 2–6 tsp fresh leaf (PED); 1–3 g dry leaf
(PED); 2 g dry leaf:10 ml alcohol/10 ml water (PED); 0.2–0.6 g herb, or in tea, 3 ×/day (CAN);
50–600 mg herb/day (HHB); maximum dose 100 mg dry herb up to 3 ×/day (MAD); 4–10 drops
herb 3 ×/day with water or juice (NH); 0.2–0.6 ml liquid herb extract (1:1 in 50% ethanol) 3 ×/day
(CAN); 0.6–2.0 ml herb tincture (BPC) (CAN); 1–4 ml lobelia tincture (1:10 in dilute acetic acid)
(CAN); 10–20 drops (0.5–1 g) leaf tincture, up to several ×/day (MAD).

Contraindications, Interactions, and Side Effects (Lobelia) — Class 2b, 2d. May cause nausea
and vomiting. Cardioactive (AHP; WAM). APA gives it their negative 5 rating, “definite health
hazard to using this substance internally, even in recommended amounts.” I’d consider the risks of
smoking versus the risk of lobeline and might opt for the lobeline, perhaps first trying transdermal
lobelia plants taped to my arm. I’m not even keen on transdermal nicotine, but I find it perhaps
healthier than smoking, and it doesn’t affect my neighbors with second-hand smoke. The alkaloid
lobeline can cause cough, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, tremors, and vomiting (CAN). Overdose may
cause coma, convulsions, diaphoresis, hypotension, hypothermia, tachycardia, and even fatality.
Because of lobeline and its toxicity, its use in pregnancy and lactation is to be avoided (CAN;
WAM). 0.6–1 g leaf is toxic, 4 g fatal (PHR; PH2).“Health hazards not known with proper
therapeutic dosages” (PH2) (but PH2 designates no specific quantified dosage! JAD).
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Another member of the genus, Lobelia tupa, is indicated for toothache and is classified as a hallucinogen. It's native to Chile, where it's nicknamed tabaco del diablo.
 
interesting, I imagine that it contains scopolamine related compounds, correct?
 
I've tried Lobelia inflata from two sources (dried herb and growing my own) and have been puzzled by its inactivity. Most reports I've read on herbal forums warn to mix it with other herbs before smoking it because it is too powerful by itself, but I found myself unable to get any effect even from the straight herb. I've also tried chewing it or even eating it, which if I did that with tobacco would only take a pinch to make me nauseous, yet there was very little effect except, eventually, slight nausea after swallowing many grams. I also expected the lobeline to have a taste resembling the unique, strong taste of nicotine, but only noticed the taste faintly. Did I get unlucky, or have others had this sort of experience with Lobelia?
 
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