Liver/Kidney Detox. What would u reconmend?

[Sentience]

Kidney stones are a result of retention of uric acid in the kidney.

Asparagus contains asparamid,
a most awesome diuretic that will purge
your body of uric acid build-ups.

The high levels of uric acid found
in urine after the eating of asparagus is
a result of this process + not an
indication that asparagus is dangerous.

Try eating asparagus every day for a month,
the odour will almost disappear from your urine.

PEACE
UnS

Certainly it isnt dangerous for most normal people, but it does contain purines which increases uric acid, and not just because of its diuretic effect either. Look up the relationship between purines and uric acid.

I have MS, and I actually want HIGHER uric acid levels, the opposite of somebody with gout. I eat Asparagus weekly.

Its not just about the diuretic. Its about the purines. It increases uric acid as a by-product of purines, it isnt just helping you eliminate them.


Purines are not bad for you, unless you want to lower uric acid.....uric acid is not necessarily the source of the smell that goes away.

 

[Sentience]

Milk Thistle!!!

+1

And why do people ignorantly assume that there is never evidence or proof for herbal medicines? In Germany you are likely to be prescribed Milk Thistle by a doctor for liver Cirrhosis, but not in the US/UK.....people really have their head up their ass sometimes, and just assume there is no clinical evidence for herbal medicines just because they are herbal medicines and have not been presented with the evidence personally.

The production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) is considered to be a major factor in oxidative cell injury. The antioxidant activity or the inhibition of the generation of free radicals is important in providing protection against such hepatic damage. Silymarin, derived from the milk thistle plant, Silybium marianum, has been used in traditional medicine as a remedy for diseases of the liver and biliary tract. In the present study, the effect of hepatoprotective drug silymarin on body weight and biochemical parameters, particularly, antioxidant status of ethanol-exposed rats was studied and its efficacy was compared with the potent antioxidant, ascorbic acid as well as capacity of hepatic regeneration during abstention. Ethanol, at a dose of 1.6 g/kg body wt/day for 4 wks affected body weight in 16-18 week-old male albino rats (Wistar strain weighing 200-220 g). Thiobarbituric acid reactive substance (TBARS) level, superoxide dismutase (SOD), and glutathione-s-transferase (GST) activities were significantly increased, whereas GSH content, and catalase, glutathione reductase (GR) and GPx (glutathione peroxidase) activities significantly reduced, on ethanol exposure. These changes were reversed by silybin and ascorbic acid treatment. It was also observed that abstinence from ethanol might help in hepatic regeneration. Silybin showed a significant hepatoprotective activity, but activity was less than that of ascorbic acid. Furthermore, preventive measures were more effective than curative treatment.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/handle/123456789/3404


Good old vitamin C and anti-oxidants are still your first line of defense, but you can go above and beyond by also adding Milk Thistle.

Also see
http://ict.sagepub.com/content/6/2/104.abstract

 

[my innerself]

Yeah definately take a break from drugs and eat healthy and exercise.

 

[Mr Blonde]

And why do people ignorantly assume that there is never evidence or proof for herbal medicines? In Germany you are likely to be prescribed Milk Thistle by a doctor for liver Cirrhosis, but not in the US/UK.

I know milk thistle works, I know there is evidence for a heap of other natural drugs too. I may just be jaded because in the line of work I am in, I am exposed to a lot of people pushing natural substances for which there is no evidence, and people making outrageous claims based on little or controversial evidence.

I have met some naturopaths who were coming from a more evidence based approach then others. They even introduced me to some medicinal herb products I was unaware of that I found very interesting. However, I have also met some naturopaths who were all about vital energy fields and made outrageous claims about unproven methods and opposed vaccinations, etc...

Germany also treats homeopaths as if they were proper doctors of medicine, so, well, you know...

This whole area is something I feel very strongly about. I don't necessarily care that homeopathic substances are being sold in a pharmacy, but I would never tell a customer that they actually work and have evidence behind them. Ethically and morally I would never recommend some of those products to customers who thought they would actually help.

That is a bold statement.

Saying something like, 'You have not provided us with proof, therefor I remain unconvinced' would be an accurate statement.

Claiming that evidence or proof does not exist anywhere is basically claiming that you are omniscient or that you have studied every bit of evidence in existence anywhere.....likely that isnt the case.

I'll give you that, and I'll amend the statement to:

I have not seen proof that these detox methods are actually beneficial, and would like to see such evidence posted in this thread. If I were to be presented with good quality evidence, then I would be intrigued and possibly have to change my position on detox methods.

 

[Sentience]

Fair enough.

Also, I agree about homeopathy. Homeopathic theory starts off making a little bit of sense, kind of like reverse addiction, but I think it quickly becomes bullshit when they talk about tappotment imparting energetic memory into the water........on the other hand, its a perfectly safe placebo and it does no harm. If it makes people believe in their own recovery, its hard to see a down side as long as its complimentary and not a replacement for western medicine.


I try to approach herbs from a more evidence based perspective. However, I generally dont accept that the criteria should be as rigorous as synthetic drugs which have no history of use in humans. A common folk herb has some justification for being grandfathered in if for no other reason than it has a history of use in humans, and some anecdotal evidence to support its use. Anecdotal is not as strong as a controlled study, but 'do no harm' is the first and most important principle of medicine. Its not just proof of efficacy that has lead to such rigorous drug trials, but proof of safety. Synthetic drugs are about 1000 times more likely to lead to death or hospitalization compared to OTC supplements, evidence based or not. 1000x is not an exaggeration, its literally about that much.

Anyway, there is some evidence that Burdock has medicinal effects. WebMD claims there is reason to believe that it fights bacteria and reduces inflammation, and also that it thins the blood.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...IngredientId=111&activeIngredientName=BURDOCK

 

[Mr Blonde]

Also, I agree about homeopathy. Homeopathic theory starts off making a little bit of sense, kind of like reverse addiction, but I think it quickly becomes bullshit when they talk about tappotment imparting energetic memory into the water........on the other hand, its a perfectly safe placebo and it does no harm. If it makes people believe in their own recovery, its hard to see a down side as long as its complimentary and not a replacement for western medicine.

That's how I see it. As long as it's complimentary and people aren't abandoning Western medicine in favor of it and doing themselves harm, then it's OK. I just would never say to someone that it will help them fight their cold, or ease their joint pain or whatever else. I know some pharmacists though who will suggest these products if only to up sell/companion sell to customers.

I try to approach herbs from a more evidence based perspective. However, I generally dont accept that the criteria should be as rigorous as synthetic drugs which have no history of use in humans. A common folk herb has some justification for being grandfathered in if for no other reason than it has a history of use in humans, and some anecdotal evidence to support its use. Anecdotal is not as strong as a controlled study, but 'do no harm' is the first and most important principle of medicine. Its not just proof of efficacy that has lead to such rigorous drug trials, but proof of safety. Synthetic drugs are about 1000 times more likely to lead to death or hospitalization compared to OTC supplements, evidence based or not. 1000x is not an exaggeration, its literally about that much.

Anyway, there is some evidence that Burdock has medicinal effects. WebMD claims there is reason to believe that it fights bacteria and reduces inflammation, and also that it thins the blood.

If herbs have a history of use for humans for a specific purpose, then I would also be inclined to believe that there may be something to it. Of course I would like to know exactly what it is that it is working, and how efficient it is compared to other substances.

Without being quite clear on what we are defining as OTC supplements, then your figure, though an approximation, may be correct. After all, paracetamol is the drug that is responsible for the most substance related hospital admissions. If there are safe herbs that can be used for some ailments with effect, then they might be a better option then other medicines especially if for a particular person the pharmaceuticals may have too many side effects or be unsafe for some reason. However I hate reading about people who abandon their chemo treatments in favor of natural remedies that don't work.

I think there has been a backlash against pharmaceuticals from the public who are increasingly thinking of natural and alternative medicines as a better option. In some cases they may be, but I think there needs to be more awareness amongst the public of which alternative treatments are actually viable and which are pure quackery.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

 

[headdah]

Vita C.... u know how much that strains my kidney when i take a full strength tablet.....


dude. leave my thread. u said u were going to like 2pages ago...

 

[Sentience]

One thing I have been told many times is that you dont own a thread because you started it. I didnt say I would leave this thread after I already participated. I said I may choose to ignore future threads.

Im not the idiot who fucked up his kidneys then freaks out when you dont hear the answer you are looking for.

Vitamin C, unless you take massive doses, is not likely to harm your kidneys unless you have stones. Its not all that hard on your kidneys really, especially compared to the alcohol you have been drinking. Mega-doses might be a different story. Without vitamin C your kidneys will be in worse shape.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Headdah: What symptoms do you get? While there is a lack of evidence showing that vitamin C itself can cause kidney stones, there is some evidence that people who already have oxalate deposits in their kidneys and take vitamin C supplements may be at risk of developing full stones.

ETA: Sentience beat me to it.

 

[headdah]

yada yada yada. all i'm hearing is bla bla bla

and since i've posted this thread my kidneys and I are now in good good terms again
. plenty of water, been drinking hydrolites when required. and eating with better salt (salt lite).

i never said its was booze that caused all this did i now.

 

[GrailKing]

I take vitamin B complex, i think they are good at protecting the liver. However Nothing replaces the role of a good diet and adequate hydration.

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

^ Yeah it's funny, smoking doesn't get me high but it is so hard to quit. Not that I've tried, I love smoking so much. It goes perfectly with any activity you can think of: after eating, while drinking, in the morning with my coffee, while driving, after sex, while on other drugs too.

I think part of it is how available it is; you can't go down to the nearest convenience store and buy some smack or meth.

It's also relatively socially acceptable when compared to illegal substances.

No doubt the increased dopamine levels are part of the addiction as well. But it is strange how hard a habit it is to give up.

Dopamine? Why don't ya look in to getting some Champix or Buprenorphine in to ya Mr. Blonde? P.S. What line of work are you in to?

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Ha ha, that would be funny; going to Biala Community Health Center and asking for some bupe to quit smoking!

Me: I, uh... I...

Health worker: It's OK, you can say it, we don't judge people here.

Me: I need some buprenorphine to get clean!

Health worker: OK, how long have you been using opioids for?

Me: What? No, no, it's for cigarettes.

Health worker:

I know some people who have been on Champix and quit for a while, they all started again though. I am worried about the depressive/suicidal ideation side effects, I have been known to be prone to that sort of thing.

I take vitamin B complex, i think they are good at protecting the liver. However Nothing replaces the role of a good diet and adequate hydration.

I take a Vitamin B complex and a B12 supplement. When I had to go to the hospital for testing, they discovered my B12 was low. Not low enough to be causing the symptoms I was experiencing, but low enough to need some fixing. I have noticed that since taking it daily for the last few months I have had more energy.

 

[Divine Moments]

^ haha he probably means Bupropion. Worth a try though!

 

[headdah]

low b12??? do u hammer nos on a daily basis bro? cuz that would cause that

i used to take b12 supplements when i was heavily into doing nangs

 

[Mr Blonde]

I only use nitrous oxide when tripping, and I haven't done that in a while. The B12 deficiency was most likely due to the obscene amounts of coffee I drink coupled with the equally obscene amount of cigarettes I smoke.

If we smoked like we drink, I would smoke you all under the table.

^ haha he probably means Bupropion. Worth a try though!

Ha ha, on second thoughts yes that is probably what he meant. I think my mother used to use that for smoking; not sure how well it worked because when I found the pack most of it was still there. I might go see the doctor about it and see what he thinks. Like I said though, I do love my cigarettes.

 

[headdah]

nah i def think u should take up H and give up ciggies. ;P

 

[Mr Blonde]

I could probably afford the smack if I quit smoking.

 

[chugs]

This is a very simplistic view and is in some ways false.

well lets meet at our local lab armed with our papers and post to the journal of heptic function our arguments and allow our peers at high noon to decide who has the better argument.

of course its simplistic. its the fricken internet.

That said a response to a simplistic argument does not justify a banal insult especially when you've post absolutely no evidence to support your claims.

Bitters are PROVEN to stimulate the liver to produce more bile. Bile is how the liver discharges toxins as well as digestive enzymes.

Bile is produced primarily for digestion. If you ate more bitters (and I cannot see any evidence from you to support your claim) it does not neccesarily support the causal relationship that you will discharge more toxins.

I can drink lots of water and that will certainly simulate the the production of more urine but my body won't, necessarily discharge more "toxins".

Instead the body will often change the balance of its discharge subject to what it has too much of vs not enough of.

What about anti-oxidants? They do more than nourish your body. They are not just building blocks. They negate free radicals.

as far I've read there is no hard and fast rule that artificially produced anti-oxidants result in a healthier person. If you combined all of the studies on vitamin c (which is what someone did) and statistically analysed all of them they still don't give result that supports the widely argued contention that vitamin c will cure you from the cold or make you more healthier. In fact I would argue that most supplements are pointless unless you are suffering a major deficiency. Hence why i don't waste my money on supplements. I would rather buy a nice juicy salmon or trout instead. far better for my health.

Much that I have read is that vitamins are basically useless without the thousands of other compounds that (un-analysed) are found in fruits and vegetables. that it is the combination of vitamins and polyphenols in those foods that create the proven healthy benefit of eating good foods.

Granted you body needs vitamin but eating more vitamin then it needs does not make you healthier, at least no medical research i've read supports (feel free to post your thousands of respected peer reviewed articles). Sure you can read claims on hokey pokey health food sites but give me the double blind any day of the week over a large sample sizes.

Glutathione.....you need certain nutrition to make the stuff that helps you detox. This isnt just for the bodies building blocks, but certain molecules are needed for detox.

I never disagreed that your body needs things to function. Your liver needs all sorts of things to make its enzymes, and bile so it can remove excessive build up of various substances. But your argument is that lots of something will make the liver or kidneys discharge more toxins.

there is just no evidence for that claim (unless you want to post otherwise).

What about chelation? Did you know there are natural chelating elements in foods? Chelation therapy is used to remove heavy metals. Mild chelation occurs when you introduce chelating agents from other source as well, including trace amounts of chelating elements from foods.

ok dude, if i had heavy metals in my body at levels high enough to cause problems then sure there are many therapies to use. For example my body at this moment in time has thousands of rogue cancerous cells. but you know what my immune system is doing? Its moping them up when the cell's inbuilt suicide mechanism doesn't work.

But does that mean i should have chemo? no of course not. can i eat natural substances that are irradiated, sure I can. Will it kill some canceroures cells. Sure. but ultimately the aim is to provide a greater benefit to the harm being done. Now as far as I know 'chelation' is not a substance required for the functioning of a human. If we had a diet rich in toxic metals then fair enough i'm sure our bodies would have found a way to use chelation.

If you want to talk about a proven successful way of improving your health and that is a massively, calorie, restrictive diet.

I actually went to college for nutrition. There is a lot more to this stuff than some people realize.

I went to Universities and would sit on lectures but that doesn't make me right n or does it win me arguments on the internet.