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Likelihood of MDMA causing a Schizophrenic relapse? (and other related questions)

Wadsworth

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
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A little bit of background before I start bombarding you all with questions. My significant other was diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia earlier this year after 4 months of battling psychosis. We were told it is a rather semi-severe case, but he has been doing absolutely amazing the last few months on medication. They started him on Zyprexa at first, but changed it to Abilify about a month ago. As far as I know, he hasn't had any signs of relapsing or ill-side-effects since the initial first 4-month-long episode.

The thing is, lately, he'd been anxious to get back into the rave scene again. We've gone to a few sober, but he's just not satisfied with that anymore. He won't get the idea of rolling again out of his head, no matter how much I beg him to leave it alone. I'm scared to death. I can't stop thinking about it, and it makes me absolutely sick whenever he mentions it. It's even making me begin to question parts of our relationship. I can't go through four months of hell all over again. I don't want to see him back in a facility, helpless, with his independence stripped from him. I don't want to worry that he'll never snap out of it the next time around... that he'll never be the same again if he relapses. It hurts to think about.

He already skipped one week of his Abilify meds before the last rave, and I know it was because he was intending on rolling, but I talked him out of it last-second. Him not taking his medication scares me almost more than him taking MDMA in his condition. But he's too smart for his own good, and knows that his anti-psychotic medications would hinder his ability to properly feel the MDMA's reaction.

Even before we found out he had schizophrenia (when he was in the "pre-stage" phase), he would act a little "off" when he was rolling sometimes. Not every time, but most of the time.

So anyway, it boils down to the fact that I need as much information as I can about MDMA and Schizophrenia. If he does end up taking something, I want to know what to expect. So my questions are as follows---

- Is there anything I can do to snap him out of it (would simply making him take one of his anti-psychotic pills do any good in that department?) if the pills end up causing a bad psychotic reaction?

- He tells me that his Abilify is basically made out of Piperazines. Is this true? He told me to look it up. Even if it has some truth, there's no way the recreational junk is anything close to the medical stuff he takes, but I want to know so I have a counter-defense when we talk about the possibility of him accidentally taking unclean E pills.

- Are there any reactions I should worry about between Abilify and MDMA? I tried to look this one up on bluelight already, but didn't find much of anything specific. Even in the post that one moderator dude made.

- Is there anyone on here who legitimately has Schizophrenia (diagnosed by a doctor/physician please, I don't need some self-diagnosed know-it-all to come in here and tell me shit that isn't true... after all, it's my boyfriend's fucking life I'm talking about) and can tell me their own experiences with taking MDMA with their condition? Any lasting effects? Any temporary effects? Any unusual during-the-fact effects?

- What is the likelihood they could cause an all-out relapse?

I will most definitely be adding more questions to this list as I think of them. Please post any information you think could be helpful. If there's a question I didn't ask and should have, please add it to the list, or answer it in your post.
 
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Is there anything I can do to snap him out of it (would simply making him take one of his anti-psychotic pills do any good in that department?) if the pills end up causing a bad psychotic reaction?

Yeah giving him 1 of his meds I THINK should help a bit.. but how much i don't know.

- He tells me that his Abilify is basically made out of Piperazines. Is this true? He told me to look it up. Even if it has some truth, there's no way the recreational junk is anything close to the medical stuff he takes, but I want to know so I have a counter-defense when we talk about the possibility of him accidentally taking unclean E pills.

No.. it has a piperazine skeleton in it's structure but it's not a piperazine.

- Are there any reactions I should worry about between Abilify and MDMA? I tried to look this one up on bluelight already, but didn't find much of anything specific. Even in the post that one moderator dude made.

Nah i don't think there would be any health complications.

I really don't think he should take MDMA.. :\
 
tbh i dont think he should use any recreational doses of drugs and the only drugs he should be taking are the ones prescribed to him by his physician. I dont like to say this because i wish everyone could enjoy drugs but having a disorder and adding even more stress to the brain with mdma can cause him to relapse. Idk u say hes smart but tbh knowing he has a serious disorder and he still wants to take drugs is asking for trouble and sounds dumb. But again im not a doctor and the only experience have with the body is in anatomy and physiology class im taking. be careful
 
from my limited knowledge about psychology and the brain, schizophrenia symptoms are (get ready for an oversimplification) from too much active dopamine. Anti psychotic drugs generally act to inhibit dopamine. I would be worried he might enter stimulant psychosis or something of that nature, because mdma (and whatever it might be cut with) will release more dopamine.

Either way I would strongly advise him not to risk it. It's simply not worth it... MDMA is not good enough to risk your sanity. Plain and simple. I would do everything I could to keep him from making such a short sighted choice that he could be regretting for weeks, month, or maybe even years (sorry if I'm being over dramatic)
 
See, and I knew the dopamine bit... but I was not aware MDMA released all that much of it. Meth, yes, MDMA not so much.

And I've been trying. Now it's not so much getting him to stay off drugs that's worrying me, it's getting him to take his anti-psychotics period.
 
Also, forgot to ask you to explain this one?

Basically.. If you go to the wiki page for piperazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piperazine .. then those 2 pics of the hexagon to the right are a piperazine ring.. it's skeleton is part of lots of other chemicals such as Quetiapine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetiapine .. if you look on that page to the right you'll see the same structure as the piperazine in the middle of aload of other stuff.. But it doesn't mean it acts as a piperazine.
 
See, and I knew the dopamine bit... but I was not aware MDMA released all that much of it. Meth, yes, MDMA not so much.

And I've been trying. Now it's not so much getting him to stay off drugs that's worrying me, it's getting him to take his anti-psychotics period.

Yeah Meth releases much more but MDMA still releases a far amount.
 
Get your friend to have a read of this .


Most of the information leads me to think that if you have a mental disorder then to simply stay away from drugs that you are not familiar with etc When you think how scattered MDMA can leave your brain and the following depression that some people experience - I dont know if its worth the risk.
 
Hey Wadsworth. I was on a fairly high dose of seroquel for some time (1 year plus), which is an antipsychotic. From the perspective of someone who's dealt with that stage where they're not diagnosing full-on "schizophrenia" yet, but still treating all of the typical symptoms (and only referring to them as schizo-affective), it is important for you to know that he is hanging on a very thin edge during all these stages. His intellect is his own enemy in the drug game - he'll research his way into believing that his brain is like a game of tetris. It's not. Thinking like that is just a cynical reaction to being treated by hopelessly disarmed psychiatrists, who are just trying to do their best despite dealing with a progressive, unpredictable, debilitating illness.

While he's lucid and medicated, try to explain to him the irony of using the same linear science that he finds so incompatible with the reality of his condition to accidentally accelerate his downfall. Once the psychosis picks up speed, there are no do-overs. The psychiatrists are doing the bare minimum to keep his cheeks rosy and his appetite and heart rate regular. Tell him not to push the limits because of that pseudo-chemistry bullshit, and the stereotypes the drug community has of everything related to certain chemical classes.

With psychosis, which I've unfortunately been treated for, there's a good reason to be a dictator about controlling the ebb and flow of dopamine and seratonin - even if the drugs seem to take the manic happiness out of life. Being on anti-psychotics, and being a former gigantic fan of ecstasy, it is hard to reconcile the mundane existence of a muted life with the memories of enlightenment from MDMA.

However, after being down for so long I quit taking my meds for a while to get my brain back into practice for some DROOGS - ecstasy being my first choice, a "chance to feel again." This is getting long, so I'll sum up by saying that it threw me out of whack and sent me on a long trip of mental instability, nightmares, "illusions," etc., and my physical health was a mess for a while.

(And the roll really sucked, despite the pills being A-Ok.)

If appeals to his health don't work, which they won't, just tell him that the roll will suck and the comedown will last for longer. Also, the negative side effects will be bigger and last for at least a month. It's not fair, but for people like him it's just the way it is.
 
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Bearlove, I worry that that link will give him the wrong idea. You see, he has a problem with only seeing what he wants to see, and all he'd see in reading that link is "Look how many people are happier now that they've been using MDMA for their Schizophrenia". He'd completely ignore anything else, or twist it to fit different reasoning.

Seroquel. Shudder. That's what they were giving him right before he hit the catatonic stage (before we had to put him in a facility a second time). I'm half convinced the Seroquel is part of what put him in such a state. Or maybe it was just bad timing.

Abilify seems to do him good. It reduces his positive and negative symptoms from what I can tell, though he's still a bit of a social recluse, and he can get very unemotional when I try to talk to him about his "feelings".

We keep trying to tell him that if he stops taking the medication, he'll relapse. He doesn't believe us. It's the classic "I'm fine. I feel fine. I don't need this medication anymore. The doctors don't know what they are talking about" etc. that a lot of people go through. He refuses to believe that he only feels "fine" because the medication makes it so. I know if he stopped taking it for a length of time more than a week or two, we'd be in trouble. That scares me so much. I wish there was a better way to make him understand, or come to terms with his illness.
 
Bearlove, I worry that that link will give him the wrong idea. You see, he has a problem with only seeing what he wants to see, and all he'd see in reading that link is "Look how many people are happier now that they've been using MDMA for their Schizophrenia". He'd completely ignore anything else, or twist it to fit different reasoning.

Seroquel. Shudder. That's what they were giving him right before he hit the catatonic stage (before we had to put him in a facility a second time). I'm half convinced the Seroquel is part of what put him in such a state. Or maybe it was just bad timing.

Abilify seems to do him good. It reduces his positive and negative symptoms from what I can tell, though he's still a bit of a social recluse, and he can get very unemotional when I try to talk to him about his "feelings".

We keep trying to tell him that if he stops taking the medication, he'll relapse. He doesn't believe us. It's the classic "I'm fine. I feel fine. I don't need this medication anymore. The doctors don't know what they are talking about" etc. that a lot of people go through. He refuses to believe that he only feels "fine" because the medication makes it so. I know if he stopped taking it for a length of time more than a week or two, we'd be in trouble. That scares me so much. I wish there was a better way to make him understand, or come to terms with his illness.

It sounds like he's a classic dumbass. He's in good company though, trust me :).

I'm going to tell you what it took for me to realize that I was sick and that maybe my ideas were tainted by some ideal rationale from another universe: my intake photograph from the loony bin. Tight, unflinching, pursed lips and tight jaw. The manic, knowing eyes of someone who has rationalized away the lack of control as an occupational hazard of genius. Strained, tight posture. Obvious malnutrition despite the deliberate camouflage of well-kept clothing.

I look at that picture sometimes, and I am embarrassed about how grudgingly sympathetic people must have been about accepting my arrogance. I think about that picture a lot, and I always wonder how far back I've fallen to that person's standards again. I usually gauge this by analyzing the sadness in people's eyes when they talk to me, like they're reluctant to shout down an inevitable tragedy.
 
There are some days I wish I would have filmed him so he could have seen just how bad he was. Sometimes, I just don't think he gets it.
 
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