• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

life without drugs

Yes.... but its more difficult to achieve whilest sober. But you know what they say, the harder the challenge the greater the reward!
 
slimvictor said:
My friend always says that "no drugs is the strongest drug", by which I believe he means that a sober life gets you very high.

I believe in enlightenment. Of course, it is reachable without drugs, though brief glimpses are possible through/during drug use.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I think the glimpses we see in drug use are all that one ever achieves via drug use, unless you are something like a brujo or shaman that takes them so often that your consciousness is actively split between two or more realities all the time.
 
jduker, I have thought about this so many times, feeling guilty for continuing a life of leisure and pleasure whilst admiring all the enlightened spiritualists and Buddhists who keep telling us abstinence and a clear head are key. But then, I feel as though reaching enlightenment and abstaining from all those little life spices I love so much, such as drugs, drinks and good food, is not the path for me in this life. I enjoy experiencing things. But moderation is, as always, the key.

Euphoria and happiness, I believe, are reached through complete mindfulness. As Changed said earlier, shutting down the external chattering to find that the simplest things in life are entirely enchanting, that to me seems to be the answer. I manage that sometimes, when I feel all my senses are entirely in the present, and I make that moment mine; I enjoy it to the fullest (whether it's a "good" or a "bad" situation - doesn't really matter in that context). Then I feel truly happy. But remaining entirely in the moment becomes harder with frequent drug use, and so I have to give myself breaks and focus on sober mind-altering activities (such as meditation, art).

People talk about achieving goals and how it brings us happiness. Personally I think it is the pursuit rather than the achievement that gives us that warm fuzzy feeling, and perhaps a life heavily affected by drug use doesn't involve much worthwhile pursuit - but that is not to say that I don't value and appreciate those insights and moments I do experience whilst influenced by various substances.

So yeah.... does that make sense? My head is a bit fuzzy at the moment 8)
 
HoneyRoastedPeanut said:
Kam, I do think it is a matter of perspective, whether we perceive euphoria to be the end goal, or fulfillment. I draw a thick, dark line between those two. I don't think the perspective of euphoria as the goal is sustainable, because euphoria by its nature is a temporary condition, one end of a wide spectrum of feeling and thus farthest from the middle, or moderation. Fulfillment, to me, is more permanent because it is built on a strong, well-tempered base.

To use the analogy of a number line, seeking euphoria is like jumping from 0 to +9, then rebounding back to -4, and eventually getting back to -1 or 0. Fulfillment is like working slowly, decimal by decimal, from 0 to +2 or +3 and staying there. You'll still fluctuate, but your baseline is a few points higher than it used to be. Maybe that sounds stupid, but hopefully the point is clear. Over time, we operate most efficiently and appropriately at our baseline, whatever that may be, so that must be what we strive to improve.

Shortcuts are well and good for some, it's true that a few of us can take them at leisure and keep on going without breaking stride, but at some point you will have to account for the route you've taken to get where you are. You have to explain yourself, or demonstrate your wisdom in reaction to what life throws at you. Wisdom comes from experience, and when you take shortcuts, you bypass the experiences that give you the appropriate wisdom. For many, though (myself included), that is itself a wisdom that one can only find by taking said shortcuts.
Click to expand...
For me the experience of psychedelics, dissociatives, and emphathogens often blurs the line between euphoria and achievement. I often perceive the euphoria and contentment I receive from them as deriving from some new perspective I've achieved in my sober life since the last time I dosed. And so, rather than short cutting to satisfaction, the drugs act more as supplements to it, which reinforce positive perspectives and continue paying emotional and votive "dividends" after the experience is over.

I've read we over estimate how happy achieving our goals will make us as well as how disappointed we'll be if we fail our ambitions. We achieve, and then that satisfaction slowly wains. We fail, and that disappointment slowly dissipates. Since in sober life there tends to be a lot of time between achievements and failures that make a substantial difference, strategic use of the right drugs provides experiences that keep "bumping" my general satisfaction with my life back up, keeping it from sinking towards a standard state of indifference or mild satisfaction. This way, more time is spent happier. Preventing that new level of satisfaction from becoming the standard is where the desensitization preventing role of moderation comes in. Conversely, using drugs with short term non-committal euphoria to escape undermines the strategy.
 
jduker- FWIW, I spent mid '07 to mid '09 100% sober. I experienced several changes to my body and mind. First, my body felt healthier overall. I was also exercising (to catch at least some sort of blunted "good-feeling"), so that probably contributed the most. I was able to concentrate quite readily on more complex topics which I had no immediate experience with (I went back to college). However, after the second year, I found that I would NEVER feel as good as I used to when I had a good high going. Then again, I had recently recovered from benzodiazepine dependency, and was experiencing long-term anhedonia (which still lingers here and there, though I have it under control). So, I learned to at least appreciate accomplishments, and to have patience while I am getting through the work needed.

I don't exactly use very many drugs these days (I am far too asocial to meet any dealers, and do not wish to mess around with research chemicals as if the long-term consequences were understood, and they were innocuous), I simply stick to legal herbs.
 
Many of the chemicals found in drugs (ranging from the illegal to the pharmaceutical, the recreational to the every-day) are also found in healthy things or are naturally produced by our bodies. For this reason, I think living a "drug-free" life, when considered literally, is impossible.

Now, would choosing not to use psychoactive drugs or cutting back on other drugs such as caffeine improve one's overall feeling on life? I think it's all very relative to the individual, but truly there is only one way to find out.

If you feel drugs are inhibiting you from reaching your full potential, make the conscious decision not to use them!
 
motiv311 said:
Yes.... but its more difficult to achieve whilest sober. But you know what they say, the harder the challenge the greater the reward!
Click to expand...

Depends what you mean.
"Enlightenment" through drug use is not real enlightenment, as it is only temporary.
The high fades, and your unenlightened self returns.
Those wonderful life-examining psychedelic trips might change you long-term, but you won't experience the same level of enlightenment a week after the trip. You might be a better person, but the trip's full enlightenment is gone.
 
Just the other day, I swore off taking any intoxicants "for the express purpose of altering mood" for the next 6 months.

It's going to be hard, since this definition includes alcohol, so social events will be... interesting.

I'm making a point to stick to it though; it's a promise I made to myself, and I will not break it.
 
Raw Evil said:
Just the other day, I swore off taking any intoxicants "for the express purpose of altering mood" for the next 6 months.

It's going to be hard, since this definition includes alcohol, so social events will be... interesting.

I'm making a point to stick to it though; it's a promise I made to myself, and I will not break it.
Click to expand...
Hey Raw Evil.

I want to encourage you on your decision and keeping up with it.

I too have done something similar and wanted to share my experience. For me the first times seemed pretty weird and awkward, since I was so used to being intoxicated in social events. But with time I learned to appreciate the soberness and eventually I didn't even feel any urges to drink or smoke weed.
(Only exception is when I smell someone opening up a beer, because I just like the taste of beer that much. :)
But I have found a quite neat substitute for that also. A good totally non-alcoholic beer. Of course it's not better than the real thing, but it's good enough. :))

So if you might feel uncomfortable at first, don't let it discourage you and I'm sure with time you will actually start to fully appreciate the decision. -_-
 
I'd argue its impossible to be "drug" free. I think the body's natural reward mechanisms are there for the express purpose of high. Food for instance is a drug. I think these are tied into what makes us human. Why do you think abstinence will give more insight and understanding? You have the NOW to gain knowledge.

Dizzy gorilla made my point, but how do we argue against it?

Also any thoughts on no drugs = psychosis? A state of non control so profound that it is a crisis. That you have no ability to perceive conscious thoughts correctly. Is this state useful or a sickness that must be overcome?
 
Last edited:
If a person goes psycho in the forest with no one else around, did he really go psycho?
is that the question you're getting at?
or was it which came first, depression or drugs?
 
Legerity said:
^^^Achieving goals is satisfying but this quickly wears off. Then we need to find another one to achieve...and life becomes about doing rather than just being.
Click to expand...

Why, imagine that! Sounds just like the lifestyle of habitual drug use -- life becomes about procuring the source of the next high, lurching from one state of intoxication to another across bridges of foggy discontent.
 
Man it would be nice to think that sobriety is some quick fix like everything is great.. man im sober dont even take caffiene but maybe once a week or once every two weeks.... but dude no drugs is not that great.... ive been sober for almost 2 years im depressed and bored.... so ya
 
^ You just gotta find a reason to get up in the morning. Sobriety is not the quick fix to feeling great--But it is the route to feeling great in the long run. I was strung out on drugs for about three years--At first being sober sucked. Now I'm starting to enjoy it since I've found things that make me happy. Sure, it still has it's down times, but for the most part, being sober is so much more rewarding (not to mention healthy) than being fucked up 24/7.
 
it all depends on how big of a user u were. smoking cigs and weed everyday, rolling and drinking on the weekends.. now that'll take a huge toll on u. i used to be that way for awhile, minus the drinking. every once in awhile i would shroom also. i quit everything due to a mental breakdown that made me reflect on my life and see the loser that i was. ive been clean for a year and a half except for the occasional cig and i still drink coffee. let me tell u, it feels GREAT, but thats because i replaced my bad habits with good ones. my main focus is school and the gym. the feeling of achievement beats ANY high from any drug because it lasts with no shame and no comedowns.

that last statement was just an expression, if u literally mean euphoric, than no, u wont get euphoria. u want euphoria, do drugs lol
 
jduker09 said:
so i pose the question: if you ceased taking any and all psychoactive substances and you began to lead a healthy, sober and full life (without drugs), do you think that you could one day achieve a state of bliss, euphoria (or maybe even enhanced mental abilities) that no drug could ever compare to?
Click to expand...

I don't know. But I think it's unlikely... I'd still be left with the mental health issues that caused me to start using drugs in the first place. I may be healthier without drugs, but my major depressive disorder would seriously hinder (maybe even prevent) me from achieving any of that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top