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Life Means Nothing and is Going Nowhere. Somebody prove me wrong. Please.

Yeah, I agree P A. I find that not giving a fuck in both hard and good times makes life a more light hearted ride all in all. If one's suffering will never pass, then not giving a fuck about it is the closest thing to it going away. I'm not saying everything is great, everything has a silver lining, im saying it does not so embrace the chaos and go crazy. Stop thinking, turn off your mind, give in to hate, lose everything and you will find your inner core.
 
Stop thinking, turn off your mind, give in to hate, lose everything and you will find your inner core.
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Well, when you put it that way, you betray yourself as Nietzschean and thereby outstrip my critical reach. Your position is certainly legitimate and is consistent on its own terms, but I wouldn't consider Darth Sidious's 'give in to your anger and your hate, Skywalker' to be very sensible advice to someone in dire straits, if only because this is, after all, a board intended for the purposes of harm reduction first and foremost. I find myself repressing a shudder when I imagine what this world would look like tomorrow if everyone decided to unleash their 'inner core' today.

I also feel the need to add that 'giving a fuck' (hereafter referred to as 'caring') may not be as optional for the vast majority of suffering people as it is for Noodle473.
 
Yeah, you're right that mindset does not belong here because it has no means of harm reduction. It's the opposite. My mental framework is dangerous and impossible to grab ahold of, it is letting everything go and the descent into the depths. So... Don't do that.

I was just thinking about how luke still used hate to kill Siddious, I think Star Wars sucks, plot wise. I loved it as a kid though. Thanks for the conversation! Anyways...
 
Thanks for the conversation!
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Backatcha. And yeah, as someone who considers himself of something of a film snob, I'll go on record and nominate Star Wars for the most ludicrously overrated film franchise of all time.
 
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but does egomania reduce the risk of suicide? Because I've been living quite a miserable, pointless, apathetic, regretful, unloving and boring life the past 8 years. Maybe quite was not the right words to use, because its really been miserable. Been increasing in the amplitude and that doesn't make it any better, cause who knows, maybe in a few more years Ill hit a point of no return. Although I have such feelings, I have never even contemplated suicide. The closest I got was by a few cuts on my arm with the power of emoliation, just to make myself feel less guilty over my wrong doings. Nowdays I get depressions though, that swings wildy, but I would never even think about suicide. I really feel shit about the kind of person I am, and I am filled with huge self hate, which paradoxically goes a long with a sense of huge grandiosity, self-importance. I wish I didn't have such a huge ego, because then I could maybe leave this world without fear, making it easier for me to kill myself.

Whoops, maybe I came out sounding way too emo, but whatever. I jsut had to let that out.
 
Well, honestly, I know it's a corny and overused saying but it's true, "Life is what you make it". I think you need a shift in perspective. If you believe and decide life is meaningless and shitty, it will be. You create your reality. I don't personally believe in a God, in the sense of an intelligent deity in the sky, but my life still has meaning because I've decided it does.

When you say God abandoned you 11 years ago, does that mean that you actually do believe in God but feel like he deeked out on you? How could God abandon you if he doesn't exist? I'm just asking because I know when I left religion, at first I still kind of believed in God but felt like I could never go back to church, and felt that because my relationship with God was fuckered that my life had no meaning.. because I was taught that the only meaning a life can have is to serve God. After a while, I realized I didn't really believe in God the way I had been taught too, but I still struggled for a while with no sense of purpose because I couldn't understand what purpose a life could have if there was no God. It was depressing. After a while though, the more I learned about myself and the world, I realized there are tons of meaningful reasons to live for and I do have purpose, even if there isn't a God. It was all in my perspective though. If you do believe in God, and you do feel like he abandoned you, that can't be a very easy thing to carry so I would encourage you to face that and sort through those hard feelings and thoughts. If you really don't believe in God, then he didn't abandon you and you have no reason to carry that anger with you anymore. Choose to let it go. Choose to live your life with meaning and purpose. Search for that purpose... its there, I promise.
 
Life is what you make it
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Not to be 'that guy' again, but can you honestly imagine yourself saying something like that to someone dying in a hospital bed of some horrific infectious disease? Someone being ethnically cleansed in a concentration camp? A pedophile's victim?

While the sentiment may be good, nothing about these trite rhetorical platitudes points to anything other than the fundamental naivety and privilege that spawns them.
 
well maybe people in those situations have lived fully and with purpose up to that point, and theyre teetering on the edge, willing to move forward. because, realistically, thats all anyone can do. is move forward. no matter who you are or what is happening, a negative outlook, thought or action will solve nothing, and persistence, i.e. a positive outlook has the power to do the opposite.

so no of course you would look stupid saying that verbatim to someone terminally ill or in dire straits, but that person still has the power of consciousness and the power of consciousness is all that anyone has, and its really all that you need.
 
I have been struggling with a similar form of Nihilism, sometimes it feels that if drugs can replicate a emotion then all emotions are simply meaningless. I am planning to film myself as a drugged Art installation(simply me talking whilst under the influence in a very controlled environment) to bring these questions into an audiences attention. It could end up being rantings of a drugged up lunatic. But the mystery of where my subconscious influences in poetry and (very bad) visual work helps me carry on.

If you have someone you genuinely love in life, it can help you discover meaning even if it can sometimes feel like escapism. I have lived alone in an awful town for 1 year now with 2 more to go and no future financial security, perhaps life has become about distracting yourself from life?(through drugs) similar to how I feel.
 
because, realistically, thats all anyone can do. is move forward.
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But some (most) of these people simply don't/can't move forward. For instance, and to wit re. the example you mentioned, how exactly would you suggest that someone with a terminal illness 'move forward' in life?

And oh, how bold and authoritative you sound with your seven degrees of separation from anything so terrible as systematic torture or genocide! I won't presume to know your life circumstances, but what do you truly know about such things? The trouble is, these sorts of tragedies aren't nearly as uncommon as the average Western citizen prefers to believe. Yet again, naivety and social privilege are on full display.

no matter who you are or what is happening, a negative outlook, thought or action will solve nothing
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I'm sorry, but this is just unadulterated horseshit. I feel compelled to remind you that people with 'negative outlooks' have been defining your daily life in more positive ways than you are capable of comprehending. Where do you think the idea of a parachute came from? Someone who was optimistic about the prospect of falling from tremendous heights at high speed? Please. If optimists are always looking ahead, they're bound to miss a few things along the way - institutional and individual pessimism is just as, if not more, essential to our wellbeing as is hope for our future or acceptance of our circumstances. Either way, such practical concerns (pessimists don't achieve anything, power of positive thinking, blahblahblah) have exactly nothing to do with the ultimate validity of a particular worldview.
 
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i see your point in the second part of your post and i agree. however, the first part- maybe i was not clear enough. to be succint, i meant to say that positive thoughts and outlook, in that situation, are better than depressing, negative thought loops. if that doesnt make sense, then please, enlighten me.

take for example, my grandmother who has breast cancer for the third time. do you think she wallows in self-pity and dysphoria? or do you think she makes every physical and emotional attempt in her power to move forward. yes, she is not bed ridden, or scarred for her entire life like the victim of a sexual assault. but the point im making is that constant thoughts.. dwelling on your situation, however tempting that may be, will help nothing. and the sooner you understand it, the sooner you can scrape together a feeling of self worth. /end rant
 
do you think she wallows in self-pity and dysphoria?
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I think you're unnecessarily conflating pessimism with despair. There is a difference. The grittiest people I know (i.e. those who have been through multiple hells, and sometimes back) invariably endorse the most pessimistic and least 'sunshine and roses'-type worldviews. Those who have been exposed to the largest share of personal hardship and torment have had a unique opportunity to glimpse the 'hard realities' of life; if/when they walk away, these people rarely have anything to offer in the way of 'positive thinking' - they tell it like it is. In my opinion, these folks speak from a position of far greater authority regarding such questions as 'Is life worth living?' than do people who have experienced the barest quantum of possible human suffering.

As I see it, one who hasn't experienced true hardship has precious little to offer to a discussion re. the 'meaning of life,' simply because they have been woefully deprived of one of life's most defining characteristics: agony.

Your mention of 'thought loops' leads me to imagine that your focus is psychological rather than philosophical. This is fine, but in fear of talking past you, I want to make it clear that I'm after the truth, not what happens to get the job done. The cynical pragmatism of the latter amounts to little more than phony rationalization on the part of whomever is offering their 'cure.' This thread isn't about negative or positive attitudes, really, and neither are my posts. It's about the redemptive meaning that may or may not be inherent in life itself, and the trajectory of that meaning (and the life that it sustains) over time. In this thread, I've argued that one cannot even begin a coherent discussion of life's meaning or purpose without 1) Rejecting the temptations of nihilism and its close cousin, epistemological relativism; and 2) Accepting the reality of suffering and its fundamental relationship to all sentient life.

My heart goes out to your grandmother, but I'm not sure what feature of her story serves as a rejoinder to my critique of this 'positive thinking' nonsense. Your grandmother can have all the hope she wants, but her odds are her odds either way. That is the fact of the matter. We all suffer, and we all die. Those two certainties nearly complete my Infinitesimally Small List of Practical Things That I Know for Sure. No one had said anything about 'wallowing' until you did. Your grandmother can accept that she has a potentially fatal illness with a dismal prognosis and go on living her life; or she can try to convince herself otherwise and go on living her life all the same (with, perhaps, a slightly sunnier disposition, which disposition, I would argue, would be highly inappropriate and mildly sad, considering the actual circumstances). Sometimes the truth hurts, but I much prefer the harsh, clear light of day to the heady haze of self-induced narcosis.
 
So, youve thought about this.. in great depth. I am not on your level and can not relate to your perceptions. But each of us perceives a different reality, while at the same time, I believe we are all constituents in a framework known as waking life (for lack of a better phrase). I define the term waking life as the human existence each and everyone is subject to. This is existence is independent of race, culture or citizenship. I have conscious thought which produces action and behavior. Its safe to say this is the same for everyone, no? The difference between you, me or anyone else lies in perceptions of subjective reality.

You claim, it seems, that one has little insight into the meaning of life if they have not experienced agony. Fully agreed. I may be a priveliged, white young adult from suburbia, and my "agony" undoubtedly pales in comparison to a child living in the Guatemala city garbage dump, or someone with terminal cancer. My belief is, however, your waking life has infinite possibilities and the only thing one has control over is oneself, and ones subjective realities. Your recent post made very salient the fact that my understanding of philosophy and ontological nature is not on your level. I'd prefer to observe and learn as opposed to argue with you. Cheers.
 
Life Means Nothing and is Going Nowhere. Somebody prove me wrong. Please.

Life is going towards death.
Therefore you are wrong.
Quite simple really.
 
A quote from Carlos Castaneda "Teachings of Don Juan" which seems applicable here:

You must always keep in mind that a path is only a path. Each path is only one of a million paths. If you feel that you must now follow it, you need not stay with it under any circumstances. Any path is only a path. There is no affront to yourself or others in dropping a path if that is what your heart tells you to do. But your decision to keep on a path or to leave it must be free of fear and ambition. I caution you: look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary. Then ask yourself and yourself alone this one question. Does this path have a heart? All paths are the same. They lead nowhere. They are paths going through the brush or into the brush or under the brush of the Universe. The only question is: Does this path have a heart? If it does, then it is a good path. If it doesn’t, then it is of no use.
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Overuse of psycoactive drugs and psycedelics may drive you insane instead of solving to many issues. It is true atleast for me that the use of theese compunds makes me a better person, as psycedelics needs you to solve your head if you want to go all in there in my experience. You need to have balance and lots of love in your life, atleast you need to create it to have a good experience in my opinion.

Human interaction however is very important, many people forget to interact with eachother and experience the joy of just doing that - interacting. Talking about nothing in particular, or something in particular.

You could also seek into the consciousness concept, no matter all energy.

Here is a link touching into it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukbFvxusMMI

Life seems to be full of opposite choices, where both answers are correct. Choose your best alternative!

Flickering said:
Meaning is inherently subjective. You can no more have an objective meaning than you can have an objective opinion. All of our values are self-determined.

I've been in the state of mind you're in, it's not nice. But I guarantee, given time, it becomes clear that like any view on reality, a state of mind is all it is. Existential depression is common in people who think everything through a lot (too much, people keep telling me) and at it's best, it's a way to learn and grow.

I guess it's harder when you don't think there's anything after death. But even if there isn't, the nothing that's beyond the only thing that actually is i.e. our experience alive, here and now, shouldn't be important. What's important is what you value in this life. Do you love anyone? Is there something, somewhere, someone you want to be? Is there anything in the world that's important to you?

If there is, then you've found your meaning already.

If there isn't, then you've found the real source of your depression instead.

Because the question is never really whether there's meaning in life itself, but whether there's meaning in your life.
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Excellent post!
 
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