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Libertarianism -- I just don't buy it.

I've said it several times and I'll say it again: political arguments have no place in a forum where people are supposed to help each other.

*sigh*

:(
 
You just got t0rswn3d:

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Jamshyd said:
I've said it several times and I'll say it again: political arguments have no place in a forum where people are supposed to help each other.

*sigh*

:(
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you'll find that over the years many of us who have bumped heads again and again and again on this board over politics can end up "buddies" so to speak.

An individual who is banned from here and i were vitriolic as hell to one another over politics for years, now? we respect each other regardless of our differences.

myself and m885 look at economics from opposite ends of the spectrum. i, am not particularly fond of the corporate entity, he's all about it. I've hung out with him personally and quite enjoyed my time with him. In fact we spend all day in the same chatroom shootin the shit with each other.

sure that doesn't happen all the time, but a respect can be earned through a sparring in a debate. regardless if agreement on any issue every comes out on any issue. we can call names, we can make insults, we can be viscious, but in the end, i think most of us get we're still people.. and have common interests outside of our political differences.
 
Regarding Social Security:

kittyinthedark said:
And even if there were, the pittance they give you is nearly worthless, if you can even manage to collect it through the disgusting amount of paperwork you have to do. My family took care of a 90 year old man (my great aunt's boyfriend to put it as simply as possible) up until the day he died, and we relied largely on government programs like social security to help pay his bills.
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Do you realize you completely contradicted yourself? Social security is nearly worthless, but your family relied largely on it (and programs like it) to help someone pay the bills... LOL. You may be in shock over how stupid my ideas are (or whatever), but apparently you're awfully confused there yourself... 8)
kittyinthedark said:
I have very openly disapproved of America's ongoing military operations for a long time, dumbass.

(snip)

You don't make arguments, you make insults, and it speaks very little of you.[/personal gripe]
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*Cough*... yes, confusion does appear to reign supreme in your world... LOL. Sorry, but this is just too funny... :D Conservatives always strike me as being deeply confused in many ways, and it seems you're no different.
 
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Sorry, the spelling remark WAS spurious (I removed it)... however, when someone repeatedly contradicts themselves, it's worth noting IMO. Not that one person's opinions are inherently worth more/less than anyone else's, but those right-wing views always strike me as conditioned confusion, rather than clarity arrived at through genuine contemplation and consideration of the facts.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
I take joy in flying under the radar and getting away with something I'm forbidden from doing.

Don't we all?
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No.

I take joy in living in a society where I don't EVER have to fear being punished as long as I don't directly harm other people.

I've been arrested and fined and put on probation for drugs, and this has not made me a crusader for legalization.

Nor has it made me curse the system.

Not that I'd MIND legalization of pot, but the point is, it's more made me be like 'I'd better get back on top of my flying-under-the-radar game.'

It's like getting to a higher level of an obstacle course or video game -- you don't get pissed the new obstacles are harder, you just accept that they're there and find a way around them.

Seriously, there is no rule that cannot be broken by someone crafty enough.
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Do you SERIOUSLY think that it's preferable to set up an unfair set of rules and then encourage people to be "crafty" enough to cheat the system rather than to set up a fair set of rules in the first place?

My apologies if this might force you to spend more money on actual video games.

Perhaps the government ought to criminalize video games, too, so then you can use your craftsmanship to get around THAT rule.

Doing away with all government involvement into my life might make me freer to do what I want, but I also think it has the potential to make me lonlier and more fearful of other people.
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So what?

Go out and make some friends.

Better still - figure out how to conquer your fears of "other people."

I don't know of ANYONE who wants to legalize murder or rape.

How in the world does a system that punishes good people who happen to smoke pot or trade money for sex make sense?
 
L O V E L I F E said:
No.

I take joy in living in a society where I don't EVER have to fear being punished as long as I don't directly harm other people.
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How do you know -- have you ever lived in such a society? This is a serious question, as AFAIK it's unknown what living in a society like this would truly be like. There could be totally unforseen and very serious negative aspects to it, although I don't really want to sit here & try to come up with examples.

Libertarianism IS something of a "radical" or utopian concept though, and societies based on these don't have a good historical track record. Doesn't matter how well-intentioned the founders are, it just seems there's no "one size fits all" solution. Some people feel safe, comfortable, protected, etc. being dependent on others, ordered around and told what to do. How will people like this fit into the society you envision?
 
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MDPVagrant said:
How do you know -- have you ever lived in such a society?
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Yes.

Among my group of friends (a "mini-society," if you will), I have a reasonable degree of certainty that as long as I follow the Golden Rule, I will never be intentionally and unreasonably punished.
 
L O V E L I F E said:
Yes.

Among my group of friends (a "mini-society," if you will), I have a reasonable degree of certainty that as long as I follow the Golden Rule, I will never be intentionally and unreasonably punished.
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The thread topic is libertarianism though, and I'm sure there's a bit more to it all than "if I don't hurt others, I won't be punished." Although that may be the *basis* of it (not sure, I actually don't know much about it), no society or political philosophy is that simple, because the human mind is not simple. People invariably go around making messes of things in the real world.
L O V E L I F E said:
The "point of life" is subjective.
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We agree on that much, anyway.
 
Imo libertarianism would work well as it allows freedom to choose what you want which is one of the most important things to have and not to mention without all the unnecessary spending, constraining laws, etc the economy would be better and people would be happier. Although I would like complete anarchism, but until society reaches a near optimal state then it wouldn't work as there'd still be idiots. Hmm I'm still kinda high and am gonna go deeper I think. There will always be unintelligent people, these people may not be smart enough to realize things or even do something such actually be happy, but this in part due to the fact that the American society is awful. Imagine a country with a good economy, a truly good education system, people were told the truth, etc Unintelligent people may not be able to realize things, but if presented with a more correct way of government, society, etc their lives will be bettered. Imagine America, but people actually knew how to raise children, the economy was good, people knew the truth about drugs (and things in general to, but I like drugs :p), modern psych wasn't just throwing lots of pills at people to cover up mental problems to make money, and all other various bad aspects were eliminated. At this level you should see that fundamentally libertarianism works, because at this point the only major laws would be don't rape, steal, or murder (maybe this is against true freedom (esp if someone murdered for an actual good reason), but if a majority of the world's people think it's bad you can't just do nothing). Excluding maybe some simpler things like a slightly better traffic system/laws people would basically have more freedom and would have better people/environments to live in. Wish I could gain control of America though, I'd show you what would happen when I let people. Sorry this is poorly worded and I didn't get my good points off (I had some, but its 6:50 and im too stoned and tired to remember them :p)
 
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