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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Levoamphetamine vs. Caffeine - Similar Effects?

B

Black_Lite

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
6
Hi everyone,

I've lurked for a long time, and done a ton of reading here, mainly from Google searches, but I registered today and did some searches on my topic as well. I'm new at this, so I might have missed some threads. I've read the site rules and user guide, and I think I'm ok posting a thread as a newbie. If this isn't kosher, someone kindly inform me.

I have ADHD. Tomorrow I'm either going to choose Adderall or Dexedrine. I've tried many medicines. I'm going to try one of these now.

I know D-amp is the "good stuff", and that Dexedrine is 100% D-amp, while Adderall is 75% D-amp, 25% L-amp.

L-amp gets a very bad rap, and I'm sure a lot of it is well deserved. The effects of this drug basically determine my decision tomorrow. I know chemically, they're extremely different, but in terms of practical effects, can L-amp be compared to Caffeine? From what I've read, there's a lot of overlap between the effects between the two.

I need caffeine to get going in the morning. I tolerate it reasonably well. How reductive or otherwise inaccurate is it to say that Adderall is like Dexedrine plus Caffeine? It would be nice to get some D-Amp and reduce my Caffeine intake at the same time.

Again, apologies if I've broken any etiquette rules. Sorry for the quirky formatting, I'm on my phone.
 
L-amphetamine is a much weaker analog of D-amphetamine (1/10 as strong approx) that is more selective for NE release than dopamine release. So it's mostly just semiactive filler in Adderall. It certainly doesn't have a major influence on its effects.

Caffeine is an adenosine receptor antagonist and lacks any activity at the dopamine or norepinephrine transporters.
 
I realize that chemically, they're vastly different. I have read in several places however that L-amp potentiates a quicker onset and increases the duration of the D-amp.

Even if this is inaccurate, many users report that L-amp gives them a "jolt" that helps them get going in the morning. L-amp is noted for effects such as wakefulness, and reduction of fatigue. It and caffeine even have similar negative side effects. Your post is an excellent comparison of their chemical differences, but it seems to me that caffeine and L-Amp produce similar end results from a physical/body standpoint.

I dont mean to come off as argumentative, but I'm very confused, because I have this information in many places, from scientific studies to forum posts. What am I missing?

Edit: Corrected autocorrect.
 
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If you can, avoid L-AMP. It is NOT enjoyable. If you've used adderal and dexedrine you would know how it ruins the high. IME caffeine is more enjoyable.
 
Pickledlemons said:
If you can, avoid L-AMP. It is NOT enjoyable. If you've used adderal and dexedrine you would know how it ruins the high. IME caffeine is more enjoyable.
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Thank ͏y͏o͏u for the advice. When I've previously used Adderall, I did not notice the experience being ruined in any shape. While I'm not on Dexedrine currently, I am on Vyvanse, and it is ineffective, even at the max dosage.

Now, I realize Vyvanse is a pro drug and my body may be absorbing/metabolizing the medicine differently than it would with straight Dexedrine, especially in terms of length of effect, noticeability, smoothness, etc., but the difference is still remarkable from when I've used Adderall. It has been years since I have used Adderall, though, so I'm looking for feedback on L-Amp's similarities to caffeine, to try and explain the difference between my Adderall experience and my Vyvanse experience. Caffeine is the only substance I've consumed that could possibly have hypothetical similarities to L-Amp.

I could be completely off base though, so I appreciate any insight.

Edit: clarification.
 
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How could they possibly know its the Levo specifically giving them the jolt?

Also, what is a jolt?

Atropine can have similar side effects like pounding heart, flushed skin, and psychosis that doesnt make it similar because it binds to completely different receptors. I think if you dont focus on what it does on a technical level your going to be very confused. Because, using subjective reports can only do so much.

Caffeine can cause a increase in alertness and reduce fatigue

D amphetamine can cause a increase in alertness and reduce fatigue

How would someone with mix of 3:1 d l amphetamine know the increase im alertness and reduction in fatigue isnt from the d amphetamine.
 
d1nach said:
How could they possibly know its the Levo specifically giving them the jolt?

Also, what is a jolt?

Atropine can have similar side effects like pounding heart, flushed skin, and psychosis that doesnt make it similar because it binds to completely different receptors. I think if you dont focus on what it does on a technical level your going to be very confused. Because, using subjective reports can only do so much.

Caffeine can cause a increase in alertness and reduce fatigue

D amphetamine can cause a increase in alertness and reduce fatigue

How would someone with mix of 3:1 d l amphetamine know the increase im alertness and reduction in fatigue isnt from the d amphetamine.
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Because people have taken Adderall and Dexedrine, and reported their experiences on how the two products differ. Usually, not always, but usually, the information states that Adderall has more physical components to its experience, and that these components can be attributed to L-amp working more on the peripheral nervous system, via noradregenic effects. These effects range from jitteriness and a racing heart to increased physical energy and an increased effect of appetite suppression when compared to using D-amp alone. This is sometimes referred to as a "body high". I realize the synergization between the different salts in the compound are playing a role here, and not just the L-amp itself. Is this not commonly agreed upon information? That Adderall has physical effects in addition to Dexedrine's reported smoother, more mental experience? If I'm out of line here, I can find the papers/studies I've read that confirm these descriptions beyond subjective user reports. I'm sorry if I'm missing the point.

Just because chemicals bind to different receptors does not mean they cannot produce similar end results on the user. You said it yourself, atropine can have similar side effects. I'm not saying caffeine is exactly like L-amp, I realize the different pharmacokinetics between the two are miles apart. But I think it is fair to say that there are many chemically different drugs that produce common sets of effects in the body. For example, Ashwagandha can relieve anxiety. So can Prozac. Both very chemically different, but each share a common effect in that of anxiety reduction.

In summary, I'm just wondering if Adderall's experience feels sort of like someone took a Dexedrine and drank some coffee or an energy drink on top of it. That's all I am curious about. I tried to make is as clear as I could in my first post, but I didn't do a good job of that. I realize an amphetamine and an Adenosine antagonist cannot be compared chemically, but I thought it would be cool if I could kill two birds with one stone in the form of Adderall, since I would be able to eliminate caffeine usage, which is a drug that is ill advised to ingest when taking a stimulant medication. On Vyvanse, even though it's not a good idea, I need that caffeine to get going in the morning.

Edit: By jolt, I meant that sudden kick in the pants of stimulation that a strong cup of coffee for example gives you in the morning. It's quick acting, and gets you going. You can feel your heart pick up a bit, etc. I shouldn't have used a slang/subjective term.
 
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Why cant you have caffeine and adderall? Do you have a heart problem or get side effects?
 
d1nach said:
Why cant you have caffeine and adderall? Do you have a heart problem or get side effects?
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I'd always heard it was hard on your heart. But now that you mention it, I can always just assess tolerance. I went with Adderall XR, let's hope the jitteriness isn't too much.
 
d1nach said:
These might be useful couldnt find a comparison between levo and caffeine but did for dextro. Sorry if i came across agressive or arguementitive lot of coffee and adderall.

Levo vs dextro http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1976-22010-001

Caffeine vs dextroamphet
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2005.00468.x/full
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Hey. You were trying to help me. All that matters. These look very interesting, I'm going to check them out as soon as I hit post. I went with Addy XR, so let's hope it works out.
 
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