Letting the experiences cycle in and then out

[fifleman]

I wanted everyone's thoughts on the daily enlightenment for today, April 22. It is entitled "Much ado about nothing" and this is just a portion I thought helpful to this forum:

"I would think the world is a case of "much ado about nothing." Wars are fought and forgotten. What we want we get sometimes, and we soon forget we have them or wanted them... Nothing is ultimately important. This is an aspect of emptiness, things come and go, our desires and hates are fickle. Nothing is concrete enough for you to hold on to or give you lasting happiness. And nothing is concrete enough to hold on to you to give you lasting suffering. Letting go leads to True Happiness. Life is then easy and tolerable for the average man who understands his personal roots of suffering..."

The entire thing can be read at http://www.buddhanet.net/flash/the-daily-enlightenment/index.html.

The entire thing is right on for me today, but the bold part about nothing being concrete enough to hold on for lasting happiness can be related to me trying to hold on to drugs and alcohol for an eternal light of bliss. Then, the italic and bold sentence, "..and nothing is concrete enough to hold... for lasting suffering". This is where my drug and alcohol usage ended up with me trying to hold on to my suffering. Both scenarios are unsustainable in life.

When this idea first presented itself to me a couple of months ago, I let go even further of my obsession/mind-fire/addiction to intoxicants. I feel free today, and I hope you feel what I read in these words. What do you all think about it?

 

[aliencowstorm]

Wonderful thought. In my current state I'll not try and fully comprehend the meaning, but rather enjoy the spiritualism that others have and live vicariously through others.

 

[neversickanymore]

Nice topic fifle... I agree with almost all it says but the fact that "letting go leads to true happiness" I believe that happiness, being an emotion will always be fleeting, but letting go leads to peace instead... And being at peace will lead to experiencing much more of the emotion of happiness.

 

[fifleman]

I agree with you, neversickanymore. At this point in my life, I believe to be happy all the time is unsustainable for me. However, I am at peace and contented with what I am feeling most of the time. If I am happy, I roll with it. If I am upset, indifferent, sad, or anywhere in between, I roll with it. Just like the waves of the ocean, I know the feeling will pass along with the moment, even if it's a big wave. I must remember not to attach or dwell any feeling, for that is how I used to live and sicken myself mentally.

 

[herbavore]

^ I think that the irony is that by accepting that happiness is indeed fleeting (as is every other emotion) happiness simply occurs more often. Chasing happiness never seems to work; creating happiness for others wherever you can creates it for you as well.

Last week I heard something that I really liked. Someone told me to observe the nano second between an authentic emotion and when the brain, or ego, begins to obliterate the authenticity of the emotion with thoughts. The thoughts we attach to the emotion keep the emotion going past its natural occurrence.

 

[fifleman]

I agree and am finding that is how it is for me, herbavore. Instead of attaching to a feeling of happiness or sadness, I let it do what it does and then go back to my blank slate of existence where I am just doing. I do find happiness to occur more frequently this way as well as finding joy and laughter in the smallest things that has so long been blocked out.

That second observance is great and definitely something I am going to have to stay mindful of and watch. I truly notice the moment where the authentic feeling (body-oriented) is then negated by the mind (brain). Ah, the work I have to put in just to control my mind

 

[Sepher]

Someone told me to observe the nano second between an authentic emotion and when the brain, or ego, begins to obliterate the authenticity of the emotion with thoughts. The thoughts we attach to the emotion keep the emotion going past its natural occurrence.

Loooooong past too, in a way that distorts them completely IME. That's my tendency, to try and rationalise and categorise the emotion so I can compartmentalise it away somewhere, like if I can only out-think it I won't have to feel it. What that does though is just box up loads of negative emotions some place not big enough to hold them all with a load of negative labels attached to them that other emotions and triggers can just latch on to endlessly. Creates this cycle where my present emotions just feed endlessly on previous ones I thought I had safely locked away.

This is seriously distressing at times, when I'm at a low ebb, trying to prevent unwanted emotions constantly boiling to the surface. It's also futile, I can't keep a lid on them all, they will come out whether I like it or not. That whole thing does indeed create lasting suffering out of temporary emotions, just as you quoted Fifleman ( nice thread BTW! ). It's probably also one of the prime movers of my addictive tendencies. If I can't think the emotions away then I'll medicate them away. Leaves you wide open to drugs like heroin, that one! Booze was my fall-back position I guess.

I'm trying to approach them in a more mindful way, just letting the emotions come and do their thing without attaching to them too much. They're always in flux anyways, positive and negative, that's just the way things are, little seems to change that, only the approach to them can change far as dealing with the negatives goes, and they seem to be leaving less of a trace when I try to just acknowledge them for what they are and wait them out a little till they go off on their way.

 

[neversickanymore]

Last week I heard something that I really liked. Someone told me to observe the nano second between an authentic emotion and when the brain, or ego, begins to obliterate the authenticity of the emotion with thoughts. The thoughts we attach to the emotion keep the emotion going past its natural occurrence.

or could it be that the thought stimulated buy the first emotion can come with their own emotion to add? one possible explanation for someone blowing up or loosing it.

one last edit: or are those both the same thing said differently?

What that does though is just box up loads of negative emotions some place not big enough to hold them all with a load of negative labels attached to them that other emotions and triggers can just latch on to endlessly. Creates this cycle where my present emotions just feed endlessly on previous ones I thought I had safely locked away.

IMO what you have described here is a decent explanation of the process of relapse. Quite a few of the steps work because they address why this process spirals gains strength and becomes so miserable that an addict chooses to use to get relief. " Creates this cycle where my present emotions just feed endlessly on previous ones" emotion A causes B, then emotion A and B cause CDE, then A B C D E, cause FGH, ABCDEFGH cause IJKLMN, the combined misery of experiencing all ABCDEFGHIJKLMN cause addict to choose to relapse and ABCDEFGHIJKLMN still have not been cleared out of the system. There is a bit more to it, but that is a main part.

EDIT: It may be hard to recognize this from personal experience as the phenomenon would grow exponentially.

edit:

on previous ones I thought I had safely locked away.

iMO I don't think you can lock away emotions... past emotions are tied to memories or situations we haven't dealt with.. we as addicts stacked up so many "things" tagged with emotions by never resolving them and instead burying them unsolved buy circumventing the system with drugs. In order to get rid of these time bombs we must dig them up and deal with them.

Amazing thoughts buy everyone on here so far!!

 

[aliencowstorm]

Seriously...deep and poignant. You all are some really fantastic people. Sharing these stories, thoughts and opinions is just a fantastic experience to be a part of. Not that I would wish an addition on anyone, but I'm glad I'm not the only one out there and that there's these people (you all) that such thoughts that I don't think I could find anywhere else...just thank you...

 

[neversickanymore]

That second observance is great and definitely something I am going to have to stay mindful of and watch. I truly notice the moment where the authentic feeling (body-oriented) is then negated by the mind (brain). Ah, the work I have to put in just to control my mind

IMO if you program it correctly you won't have to worry about controlling it.

 

[fifleman]

Yes, control was the wrong term to use. Rather, I am on my way to mastering my mind. Buddhism has been paralleling my life path through the past couple of years and, for me, it is two choices: master my mind or be mastered by my mind. Being mastered by my mind is hopping and skipping from attachment to attachment, desire to desire. Without mind, I simply exist and do what is good for my body and soul.

 

[neversickanymore]

Yes, control was the wrong term to use. Rather, I am on my way to mastering my mind. Buddhism has been paralleling my life path through the past couple of years and, for me, it is two choices: master my mind or be mastered by my mind. Being mastered by my mind is hopping and skipping from attachment to attachment, desire to desire. Without mind, I simply exist and do what is good for my body and soul.

I believe any CONCLUSION you come to, can effect your emotional response.. think of emotional response you have frequently, then think of what it is based on,, for example getting mad a tailgators would be one a person could experience for a long time, but if a person meditates/thinks about this and realizes that this is something out of there control so letting it effect them is ridiculous then they no longer let it affect them.. hope that is pretty clear.. change your core thinking and see if it changed your emotional response..

 

[aliencowstorm]

Changing ones core thinking certainly isn't something you do overnight. I mean, how does one change their core belief structures? We build those over many years which are influenced by our surroundings and the people in our lives.

I'm not saying that you can't change your core thinking, I'm just saying that maybe the process in which we take in our experiences. I'm no zen master, just another soul on a path. And I want to welcome the things in my path, the good, the bad and everything else that is part of this world.

 

[aliencowstorm]

And I hate me some mother f'en tailgaters. That and non blinker using drivers too. I mean how hard is it to move your hand three inches? My best friend does it and I yell at him each time I'm with him. I actually think he does it on purpose at this point.

 

[fifleman]

Aliencowstorm: it is good to have you on here and starting a new life. If you stick to your best path, you will blossom in ways never thought possible.

Shunryu Suzuki said that if you want to be in control, encourage people to be mischievous. Then, you are in control in its widest sense. He gives the example of having cows in a small pen: they are always butting up against the fence, pushing against its boundaries. He then gives the example of giving cows a large, spacious meadow. Ironically, they will stay in the same area all day, grazing. I translate this to allowing people to be exactly how they are supposed to be in that moment doing what they do. Nothing is wrong and nothing is right. My mind (ego) wants to control people, I don't. I feel controlled trying to control; I want to be free. Therefore, I must free all others to do as they please as long as they do not hurt another sentient being.

I do not know what you need to do alien, but if I want to change my beliefs, it comes from action. I cannot change mind with mind. I can only do, and the mind will eventually follow. This will be a lifelong path for me. To relate it to sobriety, I quit drinking. Now, when I see coolers full of beer, bars, or people having a good time drinking in a get together, my first thought is "I do not drink". I can still have a good time with them, it just means I will not be drinking (and I don't go to bars). I want to be myself with my brothers and sisters sober and as real as I am. I quit the action of picking up alcohol and intoxicants and my mind is coming to recognize, "OK, we aren't drinking anymore. Right on". It makes me feel whole and in unison. I leave my thought at that.

This is just what works for me, your path is your path

 

[aliencowstorm]

Really great stuff. Awhile ago I was into Taoism, which had similar principles.

At 5 days sober I think my path is pretty wide open. I really enjoy reading these comments as its not something I would get with a coworker.

I used to have a hard time even talking about spirituality and this is going to definitely be an online home for me for quite some time just knowing that there's a community like this. Much love!

 

[feralkitten]

Last week I heard something that I really liked. Someone told me to observe the nano second between an authentic emotion and when the brain, or ego, begins to obliterate the authenticity of the emotion with thoughts. The thoughts we attach to the emotion keep the emotion going past its natural occurrence.

My therapist often points out the idea of just feeling something without classifying it as good or bad or even neutral. Just letting it "be" for a second.

When I did my hypnotherapy training we talked a lot about this idea of either quieting or distracting the conscious mind/ego and trying to get certain messages through underneath all that into into your subconscious mind, where you're not judging or over analyzing it. The idea anyway, is that it's a faster way to get positive messages through and make changes on a deeper level.

I really love it though, and it works great for me and I was a total skeptic about hypnotherapy until I started going, and I liked it enough to want to get trained to do it for others.

 

[aliencowstorm]

My therapist often points out the idea of just feeling something without classifying it as good or bad or even neutral. Just letting it "be" for a second.

When I did my hypnotherapy training we talked a lot about this idea of either quieting or distracting the conscious mind/ego and trying to get certain messages through underneath all that into into your subconscious mind, where you're not judging or over analyzing it. The idea anyway, is that it's a faster way to get positive messages through and make changes on a deeper level.

I really love it though, and it works great for me and I was a total skeptic about hypnotherapy until I started going, and I liked it enough to want to get trained to do it for others.

That's some scary stuff. One day maybe, but certainly not today! So it's now 124 hours clean and sober. I wonder if I will sleep tonight.

 

[herbavore]

@Feralkitten--I am really interested to try hypnotherapy again. I did it once during my second pregnancy when I was developing a lot of anxiety and it was very helpful. Do you find that some people are more resistant than others?

@aliencowstorm (current favorite user name)-- congratulations and welcome to day 125! If you don't sleep, tell yourself that you must have needed to stay up for such a momentous celebration and then allow yourself to feel all the pride, joy and sense of accomplishment that you deserve.

 

[feralkitten]

Yes, some people are more resistant, I guess you would say, to hypnosis. With people who have that issue I usually use what's called the "analytic" approach, this is where you try to distract the conscious mind by giving it a task like alphabetically going through a list of cities or something of that nature, and then reading the script you have prepared. I've had to be hypnotized in that way lately, and it definitely feels different, I don't feel hypnotized in the same way, but I believe it still works, because I've been able to make some positive changes. I do really miss the deep hypnosis though, but I think my addiction has been messing with my ability to go that deep right now, like I'm putting the breaks on.

Anyone can resist hypnosis though, either consciously or subconsciously. If I have a client who feels like they can't be hypnotized we just discuss reasons why they might be resisting.

If you're interested there's tons of stuff out there for learning self hypnosis, plenty of it free, and there are some practitioners who have free videos on youtube. All hypnosis is self hypnosis though, a hypnotherapist just helps facilitate it and can be there as a sounding board for things that might come up.

I thought about this thread a lot today. Right now I don't feel articulate enough to really describe some realizations I've been having lately, but I've been trying to practice mindfulness and have been reading a lot about it and I'm realizing how helpful it is for me to practice it. It was hard at first, but with practice, I don't want to say "you get better at it", because being good at it is not the point, but the more I do it, the more it "clicks".