Let's Try This Again - Check, Check

[auhsoJ]

I ditched that 'dbol only' cycle as 99.999999% of everyone everywhere has told me it's a bunk idea. Here's my new plan.

Test Cyp for 10 weeks at 500mg a week. I read that some people split that into 250mg twice a week to keep stable levels and I plan on doing that. (Monday/Thursday)

This seems to be the best "newbie cycle" from reading and it's all I plan on doing.

I have about 50x20mg of Nolva for PCT. I was thinking of throwing in a "natty" test booster like 'HCGenerate' (recommended on another board) or 'T-Bomb II'.

http://pct.befit4free.net/ <----this site is slightly confusing.

From what I gathered an AI or HCG would be great but isn't necessary with such a short cycle. I may even skip a "DHT blocker".

PS: If hair loss were to occur - is that on or off the cycle? I've heard it from both ends. Does it depend on the individual?

My stats:

"22 5'10" 175lb 2 years of lifting experience (less than that of "doing it right" experience) Trained "natural" this entire time."

I plan on starting this towards the end of December. Any thoughts?

 

[maakshif]

I ditched that 'dbol only' cycle as 99.999999% of everyone everywhere has told me it's a bunk idea. Here's my new plan.

Test Cyp for 10 weeks at 500mg a week. I read that some people split that into 250mg twice a week to keep stable levels and I plan on doing that. (Monday/Thursday)

This seems to be the best "newbie cycle" from reading and it's all I plan on doing.

I have about 50x20mg of Nolva for PCT. I was thinking of throwing in a "natty" test booster like 'HCGenerate' (recommended on another board) or 'T-Bomb II'.

http://pct.befit4free.net/ <----this site is slightly confusing.

From what I gathered an AI or HCG would be great but isn't necessary with such a short cycle. I may even skip a "DHT blocker".

PS: If hair loss were to occur - is that on or off the cycle? I've heard it from both ends. Does it depend on the individual?

My stats:

"22 5'10" 175lb 2 years of lifting experience (less than that of "doing it right" experience) Trained "natural" this entire time."

I plan on starting this towards the end of December. Any thoughts?

10 weeks Test Cyp will be a nice first cycle...run the nolva at 20 mg ed for 4 weeks

don't use a natty test booster, those things are a waste and some of them actually can shut down your natural production or keep it shutdown

I'd use the hcg on cycle, it'll make for a smoother recovery in my experiences...I'd at least have the AI on hand as you don't know if you are prone to gyno and other high estrogen symptoms or not

 

[theartofwar]

I would suggest you shoot once every 5 days - their is no need to break it up to mon/thurs shots with cyp.

Aside from that as mentioned nolva, i personally use it 40mg x 2 weeks , 20mg x 2 weeks - but also my cycles shut me down a lil more than 500mg test.

what's the diet lookin like ? What are your goals ?

 

[auhsoJ]

I would suggest you shoot once every 5 days - their is no need to break it up to mon/thurs shots with cyp.

Aside from that as mentioned nolva, i personally use it 40mg x 2 weeks , 20mg x 2 weeks - but also my cycles shut me down a lil more than 500mg test.

what's the diet lookin like ? What are your goals ?

Once a week? I heard that twice a week means stable levels and less sides - or is that just "bro science"? I want less sides.

I'd like to add mass to my frame I hadn't been able to do before. I got up to 200lb 6+ months ago and my arms were pretty much what they are now. I'd also like the overall strength increase.

I've been steadily lowering my body fat/raising strength for awhile now. I'm really curious how my body will react this foreign substance. I'm fairly certain I've had low test most of my life. (up and down spiraling sadness)

My diet is up and down carbs and steady protein. I don't count macros (except protein). I don't stress about it but I eat enough. I plan on forcing myself to eat more/train more on test because I'll be able to.

10 weeks Test Cyp will be a nice first cycle...run the nolva at 20 mg ed for 4 weeks

don't use a natty test booster, those things are a waste and some of them actually can shut down your natural production or keep it shutdown

I'd use the hcg on cycle, it'll make for a smoother recovery in my experiences...I'd at least have the AI on hand as you don't know if you are prone to gyno and other high estrogen symptoms or not

Natty test boosters shut you down? Daamn. Better throw out that BullRush I've been taking. ZMA is intense. :D

20mg for 4 weeks. <--- Thanks!

So what's the story on hair loss? Does it occur during or after a cycle?

This is me now.

I'll throw in a typical day of eating 'cause it's fun:

Morning: 6 whole eggs/potatoes (a little bit)/an onion or pancakes with eggs/protein mixed in/ 5-6g fish oil/multivitamin

Sometime later: 40-60g(protein) of beef/chicken/turkey with tomatoes or large protein shake or subway

Sometime later: 40-60g(protein) of beef/chicken/turkey with tomatoes or large protein shake or subway

Last meal: 40-60g(protein) Eggs or Turkey or Beef with Milk or Cheese and an onion

Gaba/Melotonin/Psyillum husk/Multivitamin/5-6g fish oil - sometimes I'll throw in protein powder.

This various based on work, when I wake up and how hungry I am. Occasionally I eat am extra meal. Sometimes I miss one and eat a little more the next time. I used to stress out all the time about food and now I just get in what I can (and I've seen an improvement in strength).

 

[theartofwar]

once cypionate is in your blood it's going to be level at every 5 days , no need to spread it thin like that. Their is no such thing as less sides unless you are talking about test flu which is a front loading problem really.

 

[PARooolller]

what are your goals for this cycle??? Your gonna bloat the fuck up so I suggest some arimidex or another type of AI during cycle and into post...Testosterone will help you gain mass, so add in more calories and throw in at least 2 huge cheat meals a week...if you're concerned about fat gain, maybe throw in some low dose anavar for the last 5 weeks...

You look pretty lean and you lost quite a bit of weight..I also feel that people shouldnt cycle unless they have low body fat i.e. <12%.....

Also, don't neglect cardio...it will help keep BP in check and will help you stay lean..

 

[maakshif]

Once a week? I heard that twice a week means stable levels and less sides - or is that just "bro science"? I want less sides.

this is not just bro-science, basically what you want to do is pin before the plasma half-life is up, this is what confuses so many people is the many different forms of half-lives, active lives, and elimination lives...we are concerned with plasma half-lives which is actually shorter than what is commonly reported as a compounds half-life...according to the World Health Organization the plasma half life for test E is 4 days, which would make Cyp about 5 due to the extra carbon it contains

I'd like to add mass to my frame I hadn't been able to do before. I got up to 200lb 6+ months ago and my arms were pretty much what they are now. I'd also like the overall strength increase.

diet diet diet, that is the key, then training, then supplements including AAS

I've been steadily lowering my body fat/raising strength for awhile now. I'm really curious how my body will react this foreign substance. I'm fairly certain I've had low test most of my life. (up and down spiraling sadness)

My diet is up and down carbs and steady protein. I don't count macros (except protein). I don't stress about it but I eat enough. I plan on forcing myself to eat more/train more on test because I'll be able to.



Natty test boosters shut you down? Daamn. Better throw out that BullRush I've been taking. ZMA is intense. :D

I just use ZMA to help me get more quality sleep, I have terrible insomnia from my days in the Marine Corps, add in Tren and my 20-month old and I'm lucky I get any sleep at all....lol

20mg for 4 weeks. <--- Thanks!

So what's the story on hair loss? Does it occur during or after a cycle?

sorry missed this question initially....it will occur on cycle as the test converts to DHT....some people that suffer hair loss will have it regrow after the test has cleared and others never get it started back...are you pre-disposed to hairloss? It's based off of your mom's side of the family. If you aren't pre-disposed to it then you will have nothing to worry about

This is me now.

I'll throw in a typical day of eating 'cause it's fun:

Morning: 6 whole eggs/potatoes (a little bit)/an onion or pancakes with eggs/protein mixed in/ 5-6g fish oil/multivitamin

Sometime later: 40-60g(protein) of beef/chicken/turkey with tomatoes or large protein shake or subway

Sometime later: 40-60g(protein) of beef/chicken/turkey with tomatoes or large protein shake or subway

Last meal: 40-60g(protein) Eggs or Turkey or Beef with Milk or Cheese and an onion

Gaba/Melotonin/Psyillum husk/Multivitamin/5-6g fish oil - sometimes I'll throw in protein powder.

This various based on work, when I wake up and how hungry I am. Occasionally I eat am extra meal. Sometimes I miss one and eat a little more the next time. I used to stress out all the time about food and now I just get in what I can (and I've seen an improvement in strength).

once cypionate is in your blood it's going to be level at every 5 days , no need to spread it thin like that. Their is no such thing as less sides unless you are talking about test flu which is a front loading problem really.

actually test flu is not just an issue with frontloading...two things can actually cause test flu 1) the rapid rise in androgens (most common cause) and 2) high BA content...now obviously frontloding will have more of a rapid rise in androgens due to putting so much in your system at once, but plenty of people, including myself get it without frontloading....it's also a big issue with short esters as well

Your gonna bloat the fuck up so I suggest some arimidex or another type of AI during cycle and into post...Testosterone will help you gain mass, so add in more calories and throw in at least 2 huge cheat meals a week...if you're concerned about fat gain, maybe throw in some low dose anavar for the last 5 weeks...

You look pretty lean and you lost quite a bit of weight..I also feel that people shouldnt cycle unless they have low body fat i.e. <12%.....

Also, don't neglect cardio...it will help keep BP in check and will help you stay lean..

just wanted to add a couple of things to this...first: don't use any AI except aromasin in PCT while using nolva....nolva inhibits both letro and adex and in the listing of drug interactions for nolva it specifically states not to use anastrozole in conjunction with nolva, the reason for this is they all work through the same pathways so they will compete with one another...keep in mind that when using AAS, due to their great affinity for nutrient partitioning, it will actually take more calories to gain than when you are not using AAS

 

[auhsoJ]

what are your goals for this cycle??? Your gonna bloat the fuck up so I suggest some arimidex or another type of AI during cycle and into post...Testosterone will help you gain mass, so add in more calories and throw in at least 2 huge cheat meals a week...if you're concerned about fat gain, maybe throw in some low dose anavar for the last 5 weeks...

You look pretty lean and you lost quite a bit of weight..I also feel that people shouldnt cycle unless they have low body fat i.e. <12%.....

Also, don't neglect cardio...it will help keep BP in check and will help you stay lean..

Not lean enough for you? I haven't had my bf check in awhile. (let alone properly) I bike a mean fixed gear on the hills of Seattle everyday. I don't own a car and do all my errands/travel on that bike. I'm fine cardio-wise.

I'll be eating more of what I do. Those cheat meals are never a problem. I can always throw in some sweet mary janus for appetite.

@maakshif

Thanks for the information. You're a real wiki you are.

Conclusion:

Pin once a week. Every five days.

Run Nola for 4 weeks at 20mg. <---When's the best time to start? A week after the last jab?

Eat more.

I might become horribly sick.

 

[maakshif]

Not lean enough for you? I haven't had my bf check in awhile. (let alone properly) I bike a mean fixed gear on the hills of Seattle everyday. I don't own a car and do all my errands/travel on that bike. I'm fine cardio-wise.

I'll be eating more of what I do. Those cheat meals are never a problem. I can always throw in some sweet mary janus for appetite.

@maakshif

Thanks for the information. You're a real wiki you are.

I've been doing this long enough and have some of the best mentors in the lifestyle to keep learning from, myself everyday

Conclusion:

Pin once a week. Every five days.

i'd go Mon/Thurs, or at least every 4 days, instead of every five...you want to shoot before the plasma half life is up and 5 days being roughly the plasma half life of cyp is borderline...probably won't matter much, but why push it

Run Nola for 4 weeks at 20mg. <---When's the best time to start? A week after the last jab?

18-21 days after last cyp shot

Eat more.

Eat big to grow big

I might become horribly sick.

test flu, if you get it, won't last but a few days

responses in bold

 

[PARooolller]

why the nolvadex??? keep it on hand for gyno but use clomid...nolvadex is toxic shit

 

[auhsoJ]

why the nolvadex??? keep it on hand for gyno but use clomid...nolvadex is toxic shit

Like everything, everywhere there seems to be a variety of suggestions and answers. Some people swear by nolva while overs clomid while others the other way around. It's what I have and someone somewhere has to have used to sometime and lived. I'll see what happens for my first.

responses in bold

Roger.

Monday and Thursday. If that's in the same week then that was my plan before. 'Art of War' said that once a week is all it takes. Again with the variety of answers.

I'm going to write up a nice doc file the best suggestions and go with them.

I've read that Monday and Thursday schedule elsewhere. Where I had read it was 250mg every Mon/Thur as 500mg would equal 1000mg a week.

 

[bksmpower69]

For concerns on hairloss when using gear, check this webpage out, the writer is pretty good at describing what to expect and what compounds are the worst or how to help control/avoid accelerating hairloss:

http://www.hairloss-research.org/steroids.html

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

why the nolvadex??? keep it on hand for gyno but use clomid...nolvadex is toxic shit

nolvadex isnt toxic. Plenty of people use it everyday and there's no problem.

I use 10mg everyday of my life. No problems. Solid strength gains. Dry physique (the tamox dries you out).

 

[auhsoJ]

Thank you everyone.

One last question.

So 250mg Monday/Thursday (Same week) to equal 500mg per week? I'll have just enough for 500mg for 10 (7 day) weeks .

 

[bksmpower69]

Yes, that's a decent split for test cyp. Some can get away with doing once a week shots of it, even though they have reported experiencing a slight dip by as early as the 6th day when 3-4 weeks into cycles of that sort and some few have reported no problems with just once a week shots. But most that I have come across prefer 2 shots a week of cyp for consistency and avoiding the roller coaster ride of emotions. There are very few clinical studies to support this, so it's probably psychosomatic, but to avoid any possible high's and low's of using cyp with so low frequency considering it's half life and peak times, twice a week shots like Monday and Thursdays are good and you'll get the most out of it with your training schedule. Test enth is the better ester to go with once a week shots - however, it's better to shoot just 1 cc of a compound compared to 2 cc's or more in each injection when it comes to trauma to the muscle tissue each time and the time it takes for the body to dissolve the compound.

Good luck with your cycle and stay strong.

 

[maakshif]

Yes, that's a decent split for test cyp. Some can get away with doing once a week shots of it, even though they have reported experiencing a slight dip by as early as the 6th day when 3-4 weeks into cycles of that sort and some few have reported no problems with just once a week shots. But most that I have come across prefer 2 shots a week of cyp for consistency and avoiding the roller coaster ride of emotions. There are very few clinical studies to support this, so it's probably psychosomatic, but to avoid any possible high's and low's of using cyp with so low frequency considering it's half life and peak times, twice a week shots like Monday and Thursdays are good and you'll get the most out of it with your training schedule. Test enth is the better ester to go with once a week shots - however, it's better to shoot just 1 cc of a compound compared to 2 cc's or more in each injection when it comes to trauma to the muscle tissue each time and the time it takes for the body to dissolve the compound.

Good luck with your cycle and stay strong.

I agree with part of this, but why would test E be better to go with once a week injections considering it has a shorter half-life than cyp, by around 24-28 hours? That's not accurate at all. The only test that should be shot once per week is one that has the Undecoanate ester attached.

I can attest, along with 100's, probably 1000's, of other people, that it's not a psychosomatic effect. When you send your test levels sky high and then they dip by half or more before sending them high again, it will cause a roller coaster ride that isn't good for your system as a whole.

Also, putting more than one cc into a muscle isn't really going to cause that much more trauma to a muscle. The trauma is caused by the needle piercing it and any movement of the needle that might happen. All the oil is doing is stretching the fascia and other muscle fibers, which are meant to stretch some. Basically if the muscle can hold it, it would be better to put as much oil in there at one time vs traumatizing multiple muscle with just 1 cc. That also doesn't mean go try and shoot 5 cc into a pec or bicep either, though.

 

[bksmpower69]

I agree with part of this, but why would test E be better to go with once a week injections considering it has a shorter half-life than cyp, by around 24-28 hours? That's not accurate at all. The only test that should be shot once per week is one that has the Undecoanate ester attached.

I can attest, along with 100's, probably 1000's, of other people, that it's not a psychosomatic effect. When you send your test levels sky high and then they dip by half or more before sending them high again, it will cause a roller coaster ride that isn't good for your system as a whole.

Also, putting more than one cc into a muscle isn't really going to cause that much more trauma to a muscle. The trauma is caused by the needle piercing it and any movement of the needle that might happen. All the oil is doing is stretching the fascia and other muscle fibers, which are meant to stretch some. Basically if the muscle can hold it, it would be better to put as much oil in there at one time vs traumatizing multiple muscle with just 1 cc. That also doesn't mean go try and shoot 5 cc into a pec or bicep either, though.

It does cause trauma to the muscle over time. IF you're doing the injection correctly, you're going beyond the fascia and deep into muscle tissue. Over time, frequent injections in areas that you're isolated to using in just a few muscle groups do cause scarring. I KNOW this personally as well as EVERY ATHLETE and gear user I know, which are in the 1000's.

We also know that injecting test enanthate once a week over test cypionate does keep our blood levels more stable. AND, we have quite a few athletes that have done cycles with only once a week shots of cypionate and find that enanthate provides more stability. When on cypionate cycles, once they split their doses, they personally felt much better overall - physiologically, psychologically and emotionally. They also experienced better increase in gains and bodyweight as far as lean muscle mass went up once this change was made. ALL of our hard gainer athletes who were told they could do once a week shots of cypionate had difficulty gaining muscle mass until they started splitting them up into 2 shots a week.

The cypionate ester marks the release pattern of the test after it is injected into the body. This ester gives testosterone an active life of 15-16 days, although blood levels of this drug fall sharply FIVE days after injection. So medically speaking, cypionate and enanthate are interchangeable. I am speaking from experience as well as experience from ALL OF OUR users. When you look at the molecular structure of the two compounds, cypionate and enanthate shouldn't have much of a difference at all. But when it comes to experience, they do - we don't know why, we just know and have experienced that there is a difference.

It's the individual's choice. The user does what he wants. Simply providing advice that has been tried and true for all of our athletes as well as many pro athletes we have collaborated with for the past 14 years to collect the data.

You speak to physician or psychologist who works with those who need their endocrine levels watched closely will assume the "high's and low's" are psychosomatic since there's no clinical data to prove it. That's what I am saying. From personal experience and those of our athletes, we know the high's and low's of the roller coaster ride are very real. So I'm not starting an argument when you state "I can attest, along with 100's, probably 1000's, of other people, that it's not a psychosomatic effect. When you send your test levels sky high and then they dip by half or more before sending them high again, it will cause a roller coaster ride that isn't good for your system as a whole." I'm simply stating that you won't find any clinical data to prove it and any shrink is going to call it psychosomatic. But if you read on with my post, I advise how to avoid it!

 

[maakshif]

It does cause trauma to the muscle over time. IF you're doing the injection correctly, you're going beyond the fascia and deep into muscle tissue. Over time, frequent injections in areas that you're isolated to using in just a few muscle groups do cause scarring. I KNOW this personally as well as EVERY ATHLETE and gear user I know, which are in the 1000's.

it causes scarring if you don't give the muscle time to recover from the trauma caused by the needle not the oil, ie going back and injecting into a muscle again within a couple of days rather than giving it ample time to recover which can happen in as little as 7 days, but giving 10-14 or longer of course is optimal

We also know that injecting test enanthate once a week over test cypionate does keep our blood levels more stable. AND, we have quite a few athletes that have done cycles with only once a week shots of cypionate and find that enanthate provides more stability. When on cypionate cycles, once they split their doses, they personally felt much better overall - physiologically, psychologically and emotionally. They also experienced better increase in gains and bodyweight as far as lean muscle mass went up once this change was made. ALL of our hard gainer athletes who were told they could do once a week shots of cypionate had difficulty gaining muscle mass until they started splitting them up into 2 shots a week.

sorry, but I still disagree, i've gotten blood-work and seen blood-work from many many people from using trt to bodybuilding doses and I've never seen any that show injecting test e once per week keeps blood levels stable...i also don't buy the whole hard-gainer clichè, when someone has told me they are a hard-gainer I've found in 99% of cases, from your average joe to college and a few pro athletes, that there is a problem with their diets, now at the same time I don't doubt their results became better once they began injecting twice per week vs once per week either

The cypionate ester marks the release pattern of the test after it is injected into the body. This ester gives testosterone an active life of 15-16 days, although blood levels of this drug fall sharply FIVE days after injection. So medically speaking, cypionate and enanthate are interchangeable. I am speaking from experience as well as experience from ALL OF OUR users. When you look at the molecular structure of the two compounds, cypionate and enanthate shouldn't have much of a difference at all. But when it comes to experience, they do - we don't know why, we just know and have experienced that there is a difference.

the only difference between the two are cypionate has 8 carbons to enanthate's 7...that five days is what is called the plasma half-life and that is what we are truly concerned with when it comes to injecting and keeping blood levels stable, for enanthate it is 4 days

It's the individual's choice. The user does what he wants. Simply providing advice that has been tried and true for all of our athletes as well as many pro athletes we have collaborated with for the past 14 years to collect the data.

You speak to physician or psychologist who works with those who need their endocrine levels watched closely will assume the "high's and low's" are psychosomatic since there's no clinical data to prove it. That's what I am saying. From personal experience and those of our athletes, we know the high's and low's of the roller coaster ride are very real. So I'm not starting an argument when you state "I can attest, along with 100's, probably 1000's, of other people, that it's not a psychosomatic effect. When you send your test levels sky high and then they dip by half or more before sending them high again, it will cause a roller coaster ride that isn't good for your system as a whole." I'm simply stating that you won't find any clinical data to prove it and any shrink is going to call it psychosomatic. But if you read on with my post, I advise how to avoid it!

just because a shrink calls it psychosomatic doesn't really mean anything to me, because there are very few, if any, shrinks that have an understanding in the least bit about AAS or the endocrine system, so they are naturally going to conclude that the problem is psychosomatic...i've talked to many endocrinologists and worked with many that bluntly say that it is very much a real problem when blood levels are not kept stable...I'm not arguing that there is no clinical data to support it because in reality most endos that prescribe trt will tell you they don't have a great understanding of AAS either...unfortunately there just hasn't been enough studies approved to really study them, so they stick to what they know or at least what they are taught

^^^

 

[bksmpower69]

^^^

Simply going off of experience. You did your homework, so do we. And we simply are giving advice off experience. Like I said before, it's completely up to the individual. Because of the lack of clinical data and reliable studies, we are forced to rely on information and experience provided to us by those who have chosen to be guinea pigs in their decision to use gear. And while the molecular structure of enth and cyp can be argued from a scientific standpoint, we are just going off experience of having used both compounds alone and within stacks. This is not just experience from only a few individuals, this is a collective of data from thousands of athletes from different backgrounds, all age groups, many walks of life, variety of statistics in physiological makeup, different sports - not just hardgainers. When I mention hardgainers, I'm not talking your typical teen with fast metabolism and little understanding of his diet and training regimen.

We do have endocrinologists and psychologists in our group who help us to collect the data and contribute to the research. Sad to say, there's very little official information gathered from clinical standpoint as to psychological effects. But they do admit that there is a very real difference and are trying hard to understand it and "correctly label" it. At this time, it's generally categorized as being psychosomatic until they can understand it better.

As far as scarring is concerned, you're correct in the giving the muscle ample time to recover. However, part of our group research is also collecting information on frequent injection site health. Scarring does occur over time, even with some recovery time provided to the sites when frequent injections are made over course of several years. That's with rotation of sites and with varying amounts of solution injected into them. We've found the best way to minimize scarring as much as possible is not just to give the site time to recover, but to inject deep into the muscle tissue, not to inject too close to the surface and to rotate sites whenever possible. If there's any way to reduce the amount of solution per injection, that is usually best, even if it means splitting doses and choosing two different sites.

 

[maakshif]

Simply going off of experience. You did your homework, so do we. And we simply are giving advice off experience. Like I said before, it's completely up to the individual. Because of the lack of clinical data and reliable studies, we are forced to rely on information and experience provided to us by those who have chosen to be guinea pigs in their decision to use gear. And while the molecular structure of enth and cyp can be argued from a scientific standpoint, we are just going off experience of having used both compounds alone and within stacks. This is not just experience from only a few individuals, this is a collective of data from thousands of athletes from different backgrounds, all age groups, many walks of life, variety of statistics in physiological makeup, different sports - not just hardgainers. When I mention hardgainers, I'm not talking your typical teen with fast metabolism and little understanding of his diet and training regimen.

We do have endocrinologists and psychologists in our group who help us to collect the data and contribute to the research. Sad to say, there's very little official information gathered from clinical standpoint as to psychological effects. But they do admit that there is a very real difference and are trying hard to understand it and "correctly label" it. At this time, it's generally categorized as being psychosomatic until they can understand it better.

As far as scarring is concerned, you're correct in the giving the muscle ample time to recover. However, part of our group research is also collecting information on frequent injection site health. Scarring does occur over time, even with some recovery time provided to the sites when frequent injections are made over course of several years. That's with rotation of sites and with varying amounts of solution injected into them. We've found the best way to minimize scarring as much as possible is not just to give the site time to recover, but to inject deep into the muscle tissue, not to inject too close to the surface and to rotate sites whenever possible. If there's any way to reduce the amount of solution per injection, that is usually best, even if it means splitting doses and choosing two different sites.

please don't think that I'm attacking your opinions or experiences, as I just re-read what I posted and how I posted it, it came across that way to me and that wasn't my intention...just good old fashioned debate that we both have lots of experience and as this lifestyle typically goes, different outcomes...I've been living, researching, and working in the AAS lifestyle for just over 10 years, mostly with your average joe gym goer, but I have worked with quite a few college athletes and a few pro athletes from different sports...really it just emphasizes the one true FACT of this lifestyle, and that is that we all react differently

some things like the cyp/enan debate, I have a "bit" of a scientific background (Master's in BioChem) and that is where I base much of that info from along with the blood-work and other experiences I've came across and seen