let's talk hallucination

[MurphyClox]

requested at blacklight, hopefully someone wonderful (ie, murphy!) has access to them.

Thx for the flowers...but Vecktor was faster.

@Vecktor: WOW! Nice abstract of the mechanism of hallucinogenics/psychedelics. Really impressing. Do you have any particular tryptamine/1A-antagonist- and PEA/2C-antagonist-combo in mind?

Peace! Murphy

 

[MurphyClox]

After taking a shower and pondering a bit, there came something to my mind...

Although I haven't read the refs yet, I followed the abstract by Vecktor and in principle got the idea that hallucinogenics like LSD, mecaline and psilocybine act via a couple of serotonine receptors (5HT1A, 2A, 2C among others). This is, what I would call the "metabolic level". This affects in particular a certain region in the pre-frontal cortex which controlles input-flow of information into our "conscious", i.e. it modulates, what is left from what we really see/feel. In other words: Our perceipton of the surrounding field and our body. This is, what I would call the "cognitive level".

Now consider this: One very frequent observation with LSD was, that when trying to sleep too early during a trip (that means when you haven't come down enough, yet. Normal duration: T+8-10 h with >200 mikro-g LSD) were intense CEV. These are also very frequently reported by lots of other users, not only when trying to sleep but upon closure of the eyes. Therefore: closed eyes visuals Question: If only the input is modulated, how can these intense (pseudo)hallucinations explained? I took especially the example "trying to fall asleep", 'cause I associated: night (2 a.m.), dark (all lights except one single candle) and silent environenmt (no music or TV, no open window). This results in some fairly low information input for the brain. Nonetheless: Head cinema in colour and with occasional sound!

Murphy

P.S. For the ones who know some work of John C. Lilly, consider the tank experiments: Input: Zero. Hallucinations: OMFG!

 

[vecktor]

Now consider this: One very frequent observation with LSD was, that when trying to sleep too early during a trip (that means when you haven't come down enough, yet. Normal duration: T+8-10 h with >200 mikro-g LSD) were intense CEV. These are also very frequently reported by lots of other users, not only when trying to sleep but upon closure of the eyes. Therefore: closed eyes visuals Question: If only the input is modulated, how can these intense (pseudo)hallucinations explained? I took especially the example "trying to fall asleep", 'cause I associated: night (2 a.m.), dark (all lights except one single candle) and silent environenmt (no music or TV, no open window). This results in some fairly low information input for the brain. Nonetheless: Head cinema in colour and with occasional sound!

Murphy

P.S. For the ones who know some work of John C. Lilly, consider the tank experiments: Input: Zero. Hallucinations: OMFG!

all neurons have a resting firing rate, they fire in the absence of input kind of like noise or static hiss on a radio, normal processing suppresses the noise giving a decent SNR, in the abscence of an input though the hiss becomes the base line and so there is no supression so random triggering of neurons is seen as the signal.

 

[MattPsy]

The eyes are not a camera.
Rather, the brain is more of a virtual reality center, a simulation engine, which draws upon information from the outside world to get cues on how to construct it's simulation, and filling in the rest.
I hypothesize that 2AR psychedelics cause a runaway of this filling in of the gaps because the inhibitory behavior restraining it is destabillised. Consider the makeup of the psychedelic experience - highly iconic archetypes, data from past episodic and semantic memory, etc. When the eyes are open, you get what you'd expect with this model - stuff you see from the outside world, heavily changed from it's modulation with output from the gap-filling system running haywire. You also get repeated, typical patterns - resulting from the destabillisation of edge-finding neuronal networks, which have predictable results. And this is only focusing on the visual stuff, there's plenty of senses left in the simulation engine - all put together in a psychedelic sandwhich, haha.

 

[swilow]

^So does the brain simulate itself?