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Let's talk about Racism

People here who are complaining that X race of people are unrespectable or cause trouble, might want to ask themselves if they're blaming the victim. You don't have to personally LIKE or take after the ways of another ethnic group. But it does behoove you to understand historically why your people and theirs have the current relationship they do, and to have some compassion and tolerance. It's not anyone's fault what historical legacy they were born into, and what avenues were (and WERE NOT) available to them.

I say this as someone who was mugged and almost killed for wandering into the wrong side of a city when I was 18. I learned to be warier and more street smart. But I didn't learn to hate and mistrust an entire race of people.
 
Did you give any attention to my discussion of white pride vs. black power?


Not too much:) What do you expect, it was friday night, and I was preparing for my weekly klan meeting! That's all us southern white folk do round deez' parts.

This is one of those touchy subjects and I'm goin to have to slowly bow out, not in defeat, but in a agree to disagree sort of way. Your astute, quirky responses give me an intellectual hardon, and I just can't compete sir.=D
 
Wow, I'm liking this thread a lot. Good discussion, and very civil for such a controversial topic :)

2: Theres no reason why people cant get them selves out of a hole. Every civilization and country has gone through hardships and most have managed to come better off.. oh except for countrys where they are black they all just rot and put there hands out asking for free food.


Basically, if germany, france, england, spain and so on have managed to become the countrys they are today, then so can ANY country. So stop making EXCUSES about famine this and aids that, and start makign SOLUTIONS is what i say to africa.

You see.. im not racist, im just realistic. Whites are obviously superior if every white country is first world/developed and every(almost) black country has slums everywhere, famine, disease, and no police or medical help.

I just need to add this, because as a person who has grown up in a country in Africa and loves it dearly - despite it's many flaws - this is a sensitive topic for me and I get offended when people who know next to nothing about my continent or it's history display such a complete lack of compassion and understanding.

Do you know anything at all about the history of Imperialism? Africa has been completely raped in the ass by the Western world. Imagine your country being violently invaded, having all your resources taken away from you, your people being completely dehumanised and treated worse than animals. The last African country to gain its independence was Namibia, only 19 years ago!!! If a person knows anything about the extent of the damage done by colonialism in Africa, they'd be completely deluded to expect a full recovery so soon (and taking into account the damaging effects of neo-colonialism, this gets even more difficult). This is no simple excuse, it is an explanation - it is a fact that the countries you speak of are so well-off because they profited from the violent theft of the resources of colonised countries. As for solutions - there are plenty being put into action right now, and although it is slow and painful, I am damn proud of the progress being made.

For example: In the past five years, my country's HIV prevalence rate has dropped from roughly 20% to 15%, all because of a mass drive to educate people, as well as the introduction of free antiretrovirals and better access to HIV testing - done by Africans, for Africans. Is this not a clear example of a solution? There are many success stories like this all over Africa but you don't hear about it because misery and disaster sells better. If you think African people are just sitting on their asses all day waiting for handouts, you had better educate yourself a bit more. (Meanwhile, the HIV rate is rising in the Western world - a recent survey I read in the papers here in the UK revealed that nearly 70% of teenage girls surveyed thought you couldn't get it unless you were gay...)

I realise that this is probably like talking to a brick wall - you can tell by some people's posts that nothing you say would ever make them open their eyes - and I'm too hungover to be anywhere near as eloquent as I'd wish to be. But it saddens me that so many people have this view of African countries without knowing anything about them, without having been there and having seen the beauty of the continent or understanding the extent of it's suffering. To a lot of people, Africa is just a dark spot on the map with nothing but starving AIDS victims asking for handouts.

Also:

every(almost) black country has slums everywhere, famine, disease, and no police or medical help.

This actually made me laugh a little, just because it's one of the most ignorant generalisations I've ever heard about Africa. My country is quite poor, but we have police (albeit a lot of corrupt ones), pretty good medical care, and some stunningly beautiful parts of the city - you really wouldn't know you were in a third world country. Africa isn't just what you see on the news.

All that being said, I don't hold any grudge against the Western world on behalf of my country. It's not all black and white - hell, because I grew up in an English-speaking former colony I've been able to get a degree in English Literature in a London university (as of two days ago actually! :D). As with everything, there's always good mixed with the bad. There is no point hating someone for their ancestor's crimes and sometimes I feel that Brits have a little too much colonial guilt (I find it quite endearing though).

Still, all I wish for is that people made less generalisations without knowing anything about the subject, and also showed a bit of compassion, knowing that yes, Africa is generally quite Fucked Up, but you'd be too if you had the same past, and a long recovery period is unavoidable. I have hope though, it would be good to see Africa rise back onto its feet in my lifetime.
 
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^ That was great, really well said.

I think that so much of racism comes from being uninformed. Because if the racist had really met the people, saw the facts, he'd realise how ridiculous his generalisations are.
 
^No. In fact, nothing "qualifies" you with the ability to pass judgment.
 
You know this thread taught me alot... That "racism" is not the american view of white vs. black... That should have it's own evil thread somewhere, and when I say evil this is why...
It's the fourth of july, and I am fixing to make some racist comments for you guys to comment on and try to make me change my mind... Because regardless of trying to keep an open mind I still have racist thoughts.
First of all , I am from a small farming town in TX, 60% white, 30%black 10%mex

1. I think african americans have had plenty of time to clean their act up, they cannot blame slavery and racism for their problems anymore, I know plenty of blacks that have nice families and good jobs, why? because they struggled...
2. The whites who supposedly keep the blacks down had to go through the struggle of immigrating and many were poor and starving when they came, the africans sold their own people into slavery, and if any of them (or you if your reading mr. sharpton) get your ass a boat ticket and go the fuck back.
3. Blacks are racist toward whites. PERIOD. You never hear a lawsuit because a black owned business wouldn't hire a white... The majority of black owned businesses will hire a black over a white with the same credentials...
4. Black people exclude themselves!!!! They are the racists!!! They set up their own churches, set themselves apart by celebrating Black History month...etc...
5. Have you listened to popular black music, rap? I love it, don't get me wrong, but they use the word nigga so much... and it's supposedly so offensive, but only when said by a white, thats such bullshit, that proves that they are fucking overdramatic.
6. Fuck every last one of you who comes and tries to tell me i'm offensive, because i'm not, I love my black friends... I have had sex with a black girl, I love mexicans, I enjoy african american culture! I love rap, but BLACKS ARE RACIST TOWARDS ME!!!!
And like I said I only presented these views to get some positive feedback, so either ban me from BL or respectfully disagree, but call me an idiot and I will, well I won't do shit but laugh at you, and maybe call a random black guy a N---- just to hurt your feelings... Right after he says whats up nigga to his black friend... you double standard carrying pro-racist. lol
 
I'm half black, half Japanese. I feel so mixed up sometimes I never really know what to think about racism sometimes. lol
 
So Ive had to deal with blacks all my life would that qualify me to pass judgement on the whole race?

Of course not. Generalisations have their place, but not when it comes to making assumptions about someone just because of the colour of their skin. If I had grown up in rural South Africa, and had had to "deal with" white Afrikaaners who were racist and backwards, would that qualify me to pass judgement on the whole white race? Or even on all Afrikaaners in general? Of course white farmers in Africa *tend* to be more racist, but a tendency is not a hard rule - I even dated a man from an Afrikaaner farming family for a while, and he was a lovely person, not racist at all. If I had made generalisations about the whole race, I wouldn't have been able to date him, and I would have missed out on a good experience.

Then again, I am a great believer that what you expect from people, you will receive (and this is backed up by studies too, i.e. the numerous studies in which teachers were falsely told that a certain student was a poor one, and the student began to do badly after this, subconsciously influenced by the teacher's opinion of him or her). If you believe black people to be lesser human beings in any sense, then that will show in your behaviour towards them, either consciously or subconsciously, and will in turn cause them to react a certain way. I truly also believe that we attract experiences which match our thoughts, but that may be a bit too mystical for this discussion.

But in other words... passing judgements on a certain race will certainly not work out in your favour. I just thought of another example: when moving to Sweden I came to know a few biracial kids there (I am half Swedish but grew up in Africa). A lot of them seem paranoid about white people being racist towards them, something which I can't truly relate to as I grew up in such a racially tolerant environment. As a result, they had experiences of racial intolerance aimed at them, while I had no experiences like that while I was living there. Perhaps people did display racism towards me, but I simply assumed that they were rude people and the whole racist part passed me by completely.
 
Wow, I'm liking this thread a lot. Good discussion, and very civil for such a controversial topic :)



I just need to add this, because as a person who has grown up in a country in Africa and loves it dearly - despite it's many flaws - this is a sensitive topic for me and I get offended when people who know next to nothing about my continent or it's history display such a complete lack of compassion and understanding.

Do you know anything at all about the history of Imperialism? Africa has been completely raped in the ass by the Western world. Imagine your country being violently invaded, having all your resources taken away from you, your people being completely dehumanised and treated worse than animals. The last African country to gain its independence was Namibia, only 19 years ago!!! If a person knows anything about the extent of the damage done by colonialism in Africa, they'd be completely deluded to expect a full recovery so soon (and taking into account the damaging effects of neo-colonialism, this gets even more difficult). This is no simple excuse, it is an explanation - it is a fact that the countries you speak of are so well-off because they profited from the violent theft of the resources of colonised countries. As for solutions - there are plenty being put into action right now, and although it is slow and painful, I am damn proud of the progress being made.

For example: In the past five years, my country's HIV prevalence rate has dropped from roughly 20% to 15%, all because of a mass drive to educate people, as well as the introduction of free antiretrovirals and better access to HIV testing - done by Africans, for Africans. Is this not a clear example of a solution? There are many success stories like this all over Africa but you don't hear about it because misery and disaster sells better. If you think African people are just sitting on their asses all day waiting for handouts, you had better educate yourself a bit more. (Meanwhile, the HIV rate is rising in the Western world - a recent survey I read in the papers here in the UK revealed that nearly 70% of teenage girls surveyed thought you couldn't get it unless you were gay...)

I realise that this is probably like talking to a brick wall - you can tell by some people's posts that nothing you say would ever make them open their eyes - and I'm too hungover to be anywhere near as eloquent as I'd wish to be. But it saddens me that so many people have this view of African countries without knowing anything about them, without having been there and having seen the beauty of the continent or understanding the extent of it's suffering. To a lot of people, Africa is just a dark spot on the map with nothing but starving AIDS victims asking for handouts.

Also:



This actually made me laugh a little, just because it's one of the most ignorant generalisations I've ever heard about Africa. My country is quite poor, but we have police (albeit a lot of corrupt ones), pretty good medical care, and some stunningly beautiful parts of the city - you really wouldn't know you were in a third world country. Africa isn't just what you see on the news.

All that being said, I don't hold any grudge against the Western world on behalf of my country. It's not all black and white - hell, because I grew up in an English-speaking former colony I've been able to get a degree in English Literature in a London university (as of two days ago actually! :D). As with everything, there's always good mixed with the bad. There is no point hating someone for their ancestor's crimes and sometimes I feel that Brits have a little too much colonial guilt (I find it quite endearing though).

Still, all I wish for is that people made less generalisations without knowing anything about the subject, and also showed a bit of compassion, knowing that yes, Africa is generally quite Fucked Up, but you'd be too if you had the same past, and a long recovery period is unavoidable. I have hope though, it would be good to see Africa rise back onto its feet in my lifetime.


At the end of the day it all boils down to this: Humans have been on this planet all for the same amount of time.. well actually no, blacks have been here longer so they pretty much had a head start. And while the whites had inferior body structure and genetics, we strived to still become the best, the most powerful. While the blacks were busy chucking sticks and stones at each others villages, the whites were busy building empires, technology, soldiers, and so on. We saw an opportunity to make our civilizations even more powerful by using africa as a place to steal slaves from and pillage there resources. Are we worse because of that? No, we are now the people who run the show, the whole world. The ones who invented air travel and got into space.

Your naive to think that blacks are even slightly as smart as whites. Obviously your not because its YOU on the ground and US WHITES standing over you with a gun pointed at you. WE WIN ok, youve lost.. you had your chance some 500 years ago but decided fighting with a neighbouring village was a bigger agenda than working together and becoming a powerful force.

Its no ones fault that africa is the way it is now except the people of africa. EVERY nation has gone through the most awesome and hardout struggles and they didnt make excuses, they made solutions and became more powerful. Africa on the other hand decides... ah fuck it, lets give up and not even bother to become powerful or even slightly better off cause.. well cause the whites are already ahead and 'we can never catch up'. You have a losers attitude africa, and losers dont innovate and become better, they slowly die off and make way for the winners.
 
first of all: i dind't read the whole thread and don't know if it has been said before, but for me, being german, racism is a sensitive topic.
we are the people who schould finally have learned their lesson, but still after the nazi generation is nearly gone, their thoughts and ideas still linger in the minds of certain idiots.
not so long ago we had an incident in a small city in germany i don't recall where atm. anyways, there were 3 people from india who wanted to visit a local fair, after a few boozed up rednecks saw them they started gathering people for a bashing, but the three indians grabbed a chance and ran away they could just flee into a fast food restaurant i think it was a pizza store or something, they got chased by several people don't know the exact number but more than 10. they smashed a window until finally the police arrived.
i was shocked to hear about this in the news the next day, this is just one of many incidents that have happened here another one involved molotov cocktails and a building where immigrants are being gathered before they find a suitable home that was in thüringen i think.

but at least there are also many people in germany who have learned their lesson, and fight racism and intolerance. hopefully they rise in numbers!

and @glitterbizkit
very well said the part about africa i had the luck to being taught history in a different manner and our teacher did a lot about imperialism and how it affected the people native to the land that was invaded (still i think there's more than what we learned but we gained a great insight) so i feel ashamed for my fortheres who did this to (assuming) your continent although we "only" had a few colonies.
 
At the end of the day it all boils down to this: Humans have been on this planet all for the same amount of time.. well actually no, blacks have been here longer so they pretty much had a head start. And while the whites had inferior body structure and genetics, we strived to still become the best, the most powerful. While the blacks were busy chucking sticks and stones at each others villages, the whites were busy building empires, technology, soldiers, and so on. We saw an opportunity to make our civilizations even more powerful by using africa as a place to steal slaves from and pillage there resources. Are we worse because of that? No, we are now the people who run the show, the whole world. The ones who invented air travel and got into space.

Your naive to think that blacks are even slightly as smart as whites. Obviously your not because its YOU on the ground and US WHITES standing over you with a gun pointed at you. WE WIN ok, youve lost.. you had your chance some 500 years ago but decided fighting with a neighbouring village was a bigger agenda than working together and becoming a powerful force.

Its no ones fault that africa is the way it is now except the people of africa. EVERY nation has gone through the most awesome and hardout struggles and they didnt make excuses, they made solutions and became more powerful. Africa on the other hand decides... ah fuck it, lets give up and not even bother to become powerful or even slightly better off cause.. well cause the whites are already ahead and 'we can never catch up'. You have a losers attitude africa, and losers dont innovate and become better, they slowly die off and make way for the winners.


I don't think arguing with you is going to have any effect - but that shit is just way too big to flush.

Africa is the way it is because of *everything* that's happened there, africans, europeans, asians. It all counts. Everyone in its history is responsible for the way it is. Your beloved 'whites' had a huge part in royally fucking shit up there for hundreds of years, and they're a huge part of why it is the way it is. The shipment of slaves to north america is the biggest movement of people *ever* - it funded the colonising of a whole *continent*. You betray your near total ignorance of not just Africa's history, but history period.

Hypothetical situation. I break into your apartment, trash *everything*, break your jaw, your arm, your legs, punch holes in every wall, break every window, smash every appliance, go through your bank account, your savings, rape and kill your wife, take your son away screaming - how long do you need to get over that? How long do you need to clean up? How long do you need to get back to where you were? And would I really be in the right for 'winning'?

Like I said, I don't expect you to respond intelligently. I'm just venting, and hoping that nobody reading your posts takes you seriously.
 
your hypothetical situation fails because you wouldnt be able to break into my house let alone touch me. Youd be dead as a door knob before you got half way down my drive way cause im white and thus im smart enough to protect myself and my property, so that i can prosper and become more powerful.

Do you really think that all the most powerful nations just happen to be founded by whites by what, accident?? I mean is this just some sort of event that just, by very very low odds if you compare how many blacks vs whites there has been through history, happened to happen? Or could it be that whites are just smarter and because of this were able to create civilizations with police and armies and technologies and law and so on?

I mean if we were all equal brains wise and population wise(infact the blacks have always had more people than the whites), then why is it that of all the most rich and powerful nations are founded and run(well except the USA thanks to obama) by white people?
 
moonyham, i have read several threads where you spout bullshit just to piss people off. Why do you have to derail good conversations with your stupid provocations? either that or you really are as stupid/racist as you write yourself out to be.

anyway, dont bother responding i wont be reading anything more by you in this thread.

As to the thread... I consider the role that religion plays an important part of the power structure that the world is in today. The powerful (unfortunetly mainly white) first world has been indoctrinated with a controlling Catholic religion for thousands of years. A religion that denies the base human desires as a way to union with the lord. Many of the third world countries grew up with a more anamistic religion, without the denial of these base desires. I think it is this repression by the Catholic Europeans that led to the greed and imperialism of the last thousand years. I think the "style" of religion (or lack thereof) is a major factor in why certain people/countries felt the need to imperialize and control the world.

I dunno, this is kinda off the top of my head. Maybe someone has something to add or totally debunk this theory.

-DoaT
 
spout bullshit to piss people off? That actually really hurts me to hear you say that. Is my opinion any less valid than yours? Are you somehow able to judge who is and isnt making stupid provocations? Or maybe its just simply that you are so ignorant that you cannot handle to hear other peoples opinions because they differ to yours so much that you go and state that you arent even going to bother reading my future posts. I find it interesting(and funny) that you dont even bother answering my 'stupid provocations' and i can only come to the conclusion that you dont because you know im right, because you know there is no answer that is true and disagrees with me.
 
This is such a touchy subject...... I'm actually afraid to reply to this thread while I'm at work. Sad, isn't it?

@ moonyham: I don't think your views make you a bad person. I just think that you're underestimating the decency of your common man. When I picture someone like yourself, I imagine someone who has lived a hard life, possibly filled with dissapointments along the way. So one day, you looked down at the color of your skin and said to yourself: "Well, I'll always be white! I can always take up the white cause, no matter how bad things get for me."

It's not right, it's not wrong. It's just..... nothing.
 
This is an interesting thread. I really have to chime in with Rachamim and Sammael about the Jews being labeled white in the USA. I had this conversation with 2 people a few days ago (one of which is my gf who's father is Jewish nonetheless) and they didn't understand it when I said that Jewish and White (ie, caucasian) are 2 different things by definition. A lot of Jews may look white but they are Semites and that's a different ethnicity. Not sure they agreed with me haha. Oh well!
 
I'm also going to throw this out there:

If you come to America and live here for more than a few years, learn English.

No, it is not our legal official language but it is by default our culturally accepted official language. When you go to a country and live there, merge with the culture. If you want to be employable and you want to be able to interact with the 270,000,000 english speakers here, learn their language.

Call me racist but I call it courtesy and making an effort to make yourself part of those around you. If (more like when) I leave the US to live somewhere else (Israel and Scandinavia both appeal to me) it will be my most pressing goal to learn the language as well as possible as quickly as possible.
 
Also about English:

American English is an an entirely different language from British English and is diverging more each year. We have the most accommodating language on the planet with the most words and fastest incorporation of foreign vocabulary of any language on the planet.

We are accommodating those who come to the USA by morphing our language to fit your needs. Calling us xenophobic and protectivist of our language and culture is frankly, stupid, given the reality of the situation.
 
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