Letrozole vs. Anastrozle

[-Guido-]

Which AI do you think is better? Do you even use an AI while on a cycle where estrogen is a concern? Can an AI inhibit gains or is that just broscience? Discuss.

 

[4chloro]

Aromasin (not letrozole OR anastrozole) would be the better choice for several reasons. It is a suicidal inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme, thus reducing concerns of a rebound of estrogen a few weeks after cessation due to receptor upregulation. It also has a low affect on aromatase activity in the brain, so you can still have estrogen's benefits on mood and libido.

Despite popular belief, 12.5mg, 2x a week would be a sufficient dose to prevent estrogen related side effects, and would keep blood levels even. The dosage frequency could be increased if problems arise.

Inhibiting estrogen will reduce mass gains, I didn't say muscle mass gains. Estrogen will enhance fat storage via it's effect on sodium retention, which is also the cause for subcutaneous water retention in estrogenic androgens. For a bulking cycle, some degree of elevated estrogen can be beneficial. Estrogen also decreases the damage done to muscle tissue from resistance exercise, which is good for runners, but bad for lifters.

Overall, it is important to balance estrogen and not destroy it or let it run free, unless of course you're doing contest prep, in which case you can slaughter every trace of estrogen in your system

 

[Yellowcabs]

I don't know much about it, but I took aromasin on cycle and ended up with a good case of gyno. While off I took Letro and it got rid of it pretty quick.

 

[TheGlimmaMan]

Aromasin is the most poweful of all the AI's. Honestly I haven't used it so long I forgot even how I dosed it, I believe they are either 25mgs or 12.5 mgs a tab. But with Arimidex, its also an AI, armoatize inhibitor, they are cancer drugs for women that truly suppress any estrogen in the body, but you need some estrogen in the body as a natural balance, and that's why you only use, clomid, or novla for PCT, using both is a waste of money and drugs. If you are worried about not getting your natty production back, then start using HCG mid way through your cycle, at 500iu eod for roughly 4 weeks, and then depending on the longest ester in the combination of steroids you are using, after that time table is up is when you begin your PCT, Novladex for 21 days is usually the best way to go 40mgs the first 10 days, 20 mgs the last 10. Clomid, you would have to do the old skool way, use 300mgs on day 1, than 100mgs for 10 day than 50mgs for the last 10...but clomid is more fertilitily drug than what we would use to combat gynocomastia, and does leave men feeling very off mentall because of the huge surge of estrogen in the body, and those leydig cells are working overtime to combat it.

Again, I forget how I used aromasin because its been so many yrs, but I used Adex with all my cycles, and my general rule of thumb, is 1mg ed or eod of adex per 1000mg of test per week, and using just 500mgs of test, I wouldn't use an AI your body needs the estrogen, so just have novladex handy in case gyno should ever set in, and if your using Tren, then have bromocriptine ready, because tren is progesterone induced gyno.

you should be covered

TGM

 

[TheGlimmaMan]

I don't know much about it, but I took aromasin on cycle and ended up with a good case of gyno. While off I took Letro and it got rid of it pretty quick.

were you using Tren with this cycle? Using an AI, especially as strong as Aromasin should almost gaurentee not getting gyno on cycle, but if you were running say Tren and DEca together, you got a case of progesterone induced gyno. And the novla just kept the inflammation down, now you have gyno bro, and the second you notice your nipples becoming hard or even lactating you should start taking a good 40-60mgs of novla to supress it before it has a real chance to start, if you started novla once its full blown, its like cancer only in remission, you may have to get he glands removed

 

[Voxide]

Both will work fine depending on what compounds or dosages you are running.

As stated earlier, you don't want to totally decimate estrogen, unless you want your sex drive to take a total nose dive.

 

[4chloro]

Trenbolone, pure trenbolone, will not cause gyno via increased prolactin. It is a progesterone receptor antagonist, NOT an agonist. However, because it binds like progesterone it still binds to the 5-a reductase enzyme, reducing DHT conversion. Low DHT to Estrogen ratio is the primary cause of gynecomastia, and conversely the most effective treatment of it. If you are taking testosterone with tren, taking DHT or a derivative such as masteron will negate almost any chances of Gyno. Also hence the reason Tren doesn't cause water retention and is extremely good for cutting. Because it reduces the effects of progesterone to a large degree, it's action in the brain is reduced (mainly serotonin) which is the cause of the anxiety often caused by tren, and conversely is why Nandrolone tends to make people feel good, but reduces sexual potency.

Also, aromasin is the most expensive AI, so you're more likely to get bunk stuff or under-dosed.

The only way to know you're getting pure tren, is if you purify it from cattle implants, which is easy to do..

Again, DHT is the best way to BALANCE estrogen levels, it doesn't kill them, rather it acts as a weak AI, but also antagonizes estrogen at certain tissues, namely breast tissue.

Tamoxifen and clomiphene should not be used on cycle, they CAN be but I don't see the point. Ideally a pct need only consist of hCG, Aromasin and 100micrograms Triptorellin acetate.

 

[TheGlimmaMan]

Trenbolone, pure trenbolone, will not cause gyno via increased prolactin. It is a progesterone receptor antagonist, NOT an agonist. However, because it binds like progesterone it still binds to the 5-a reductase enzyme, reducing DHT conversion. Low DHT to Estrogen ratio is the primary cause of gynecomastia, and conversely the most effective treatment of it. If you are taking testosterone with tren, taking DHT or a derivative such as masteron will negate almost any chances of Gyno. Also hence the reason Tren doesn't cause water retention and is extremely good for cutting. Because it reduces the effects of progesterone to a large degree, it's action in the brain is reduced (mainly serotonin) which is the cause of the anxiety often caused by tren, and conversely is why Nandrolone tends to make people feel good, but reduces sexual potency.

Also, aromasin is the most expensive AI, so you're more likely to get bunk stuff or under-dosed.

The only way to know you're getting pure tren, is if you purify it from cattle implants, which is easy to do..

Again, DHT is the best way to BALANCE estrogen levels, it doesn't kill them, rather it acts as a weak AI, but also antagonizes estrogen at certain tissues, namely breast tissue.

Tamoxifen and clomiphene should not be used on cycle, they CAN be but I don't see the point. Ideally a pct need only consist of hCG, Aromasin and 100micrograms Triptorellin acetate.

Outstanding reply, seriously man. Only thing is even though you broke down its pharmacology, and what negative derivatives each individual compound effects the body, in very easy to read terms. Some folk are still gonna be cluless

And if your old school like me, back in the day, Dazed's conversion kits were the best. And if also if youve been around for a while, how one guy thought by injecting the implants it would be better, not realizing for one thing no pill is just what the substance is, there is always a filler. But that the density of a bulls hide or even a cow, their muscular density far exceeds our own, and the man used something that would be like a mini nail gone, and punched a hole straight through his arm. He must have been aiming at the lowest point on his delt to have a half dollar size wound there.

And last but not least. I'm sure a lot of you guys know this, but those who don't usually out weigh the ones that do Not all pills ared dosed even, when something is 50mgs breaking it half doesnt mean you will get 2 equal doses of 25mgs each, the only time it is dosed like that is when a tab is scored. Like 2mg xanax, you can break those into 1/2mg increments.

4chloro, great to see you here. And there is no better tren than tren you make with conversion kits, as the pellets you buy which in the feed store or wherever you may go the box is labeled finaplex -h
you may think powder is easier, but since the pellets are made under govt standards, just like all human medications are, this is the purest form of tren you will ever use. And when I said, how fast The water seemed to pour out of me, and my arms, chest, and delts, using it the home cooked way I was using 200mg ed, which is an insane dose to take and DONT recommend it, but after 20 days, I had to knock the dose back too 100mgs ed. I stil went on vacation under 10% bf with nearly 22" arms, as a piece of granite.

Before the conversion kits Trenbolone died out, because the french company Negma stopped producing it, and some one figured out with the right ratios of this and that you could dissolve the binders and fillers, and be left with just pure tren powder. Ah does that take me back to the old days

 

[4chloro]

Outstanding reply, seriously man. Only thing is even though you broke down its pharmacology, and what negative derivatives each individual compound effects the body, in very easy to read terms. Some folk are still gonna be cluless

And if your old school like me, back in the day, Dazed's conversion kits were the best. And if also if youve been around for a while, how one guy thought by injecting the implants it would be better, not realizing for one thing no pill is just what the substance is, there is always a filler. But that the density of a bulls hide or even a cow, their muscular density far exceeds our own, and the man used something that would be like a mini nail gone, and punched a hole straight through his arm. He must have been aiming at the lowest point on his delt to have a half dollar size wound there.

And last but not least. I'm sure a lot of you guys know this, but those who don't usually out weigh the ones that do Not all pills ared dosed even, when something is 50mgs breaking it half doesnt mean you will get 2 equal doses of 25mgs each, the only time it is dosed like that is when a tab is scored. Like 2mg xanax, you can break those into 1/2mg increments.

4chloro, great to see you here. And there is no better tren than tren you make with conversion kits, as the pellets you buy which in the feed store or wherever you may go the box is labeled finaplex -h
you may think powder is easier, but since the pellets are made under govt standards, just like all human medications are, this is the purest form of tren you will ever use. And when I said, how fast The water seemed to pour out of me, and my arms, chest, and delts, using it the home cooked way I was using 200mg ed, which is an insane dose to take and DONT recommend it, but after 20 days, I had to knock the dose back too 100mgs ed. I stil went on vacation under 10% bf with nearly 22" arms, as a piece of granite.

Before the conversion kits Trenbolone died out, because the french company Negma stopped producing it, and some one figured out with the right ratios of this and that you could dissolve the binders and fillers, and be left with just pure tren powder. Ah does that take me back to the old days

I could post a home conversion for Finaplix pellets if people would desire such a thing. I have a decent method for Synovex pellets, but I'm working on a method for nearly perfect removal of the estrogen, however it will likely come down to using sodium hydroxide to remove the esters, separating the estradiol and then reattaching an ester chain.
Testosterone base shot before a workout is always good shit though.

I was thinking of making something such as:
12.5mg Trenbolone (No ester)
12.5mg Testosterone (No ester)
25mg Trenbolone acetate
25mg Testosterone propionate

Per 1ml so that it could be pinned 3 hours preworkout everyday and still maintain stable blood levels of the two. However this is slightly off topic.

If the mole people on this forum take anything from my posts in this thread, take away this:

If you want to get PREVENT Gyno and estrogenic side effects, run every cycle with 50-100mg Proviron, 200-500mg Masteron, or any other dry form of DHT, primobolan etc. (NOT anadrol).

If you want to get RID of Gyno, take a 31G slin pin and inject 150mg of Masteron or Proviron into the lump. OR inject 500mg Masteron a day until it goes away. Pramipexole is also very useful in the treatment and prevention of Gyno as Prolactin has a significant effect on estrogen's proliferation at breast tissue.

DHT is the best thing to use to combat estrogenic side effects of ANY steroid. SERM's suck. fact.
I would be very impressed if you got Gyno from 2000mg Testosterone run with 500mg Masteron. Unless your Prolactin was high.

You are taking a risk running Tren with anything estrogenic without DHT. Also fuck your hair, just shave it off I don't want to hear anyone bitching.

 

[TheGlimmaMan]

I could post a home conversion for Finaplix pellets if people would desire such a thing. I have a decent method for Synovex pellets, but I'm working on a method for nearly perfect removal of the estrogen, however it will likely come down to using sodium hydroxide to remove the esters, separating the estradiol and then reattaching an ester chain.
Testosterone base shot before a workout is always good shit though.

I was thinking of making something such as:
12.5mg Trenbolone (No ester)
12.5mg Testosterone (No ester)
25mg Trenbolone acetate
25mg Testosterone propionate

Per 1ml so that it could be pinned 3 hours preworkout everyday and still maintain stable blood levels of the two. However this is slightly off topic.

If the mole people on this forum take anything from my posts in this thread, take away this:

If you want to get PREVENT Gyno and estrogenic side effects, run every cycle with 50-100mg Proviron, 200-500mg Masteron, or any other dry form of DHT, primobolan etc. (NOT anadrol).

If you want to get RID of Gyno, take a 31G slin pin and inject 150mg of Masteron or Proviron into the lump. OR inject 500mg Masteron a day until it goes away. Pramipexole is also very useful in the treatment and prevention of Gyno as Prolactin has a significant effect on estrogen's proliferation at breast tissue.

DHT is the best thing to use to combat estrogenic side effects of ANY steroid. SERM's suck. fact.
I would be very impressed if you got Gyno from 2000mg Testosterone run with 500mg Masteron. Unless your Prolactin was high.

You are taking a risk running Tren with anything estrogenic without DHT. Also fuck your hair, just shave it off I don't want to hear anyone bitching.

Im defiantly liking that recipe youve devised! All the other bullshit people devise with their cycles sometimes cracks me the fuck up, like the guy whos on 9 things with GH and slin cause its his dream cycle, when I can get there with test and tren, and ultra clean diet. I think thats where people fall short and think its the drug they are taking, and the other problem are the drugs that are avaliable. True pharm grade stuff is out there, who just have to know how to reach certain folk. Now, im lucky/unlucky in the sense that and lets be realistic here, Im in my mid 30's, been using since I was 17, so its nearing 20 yrs of use, the first few yrs you arent going to pay attention to this material and go by what your gym buddies tell you, and will fuck up your pct, which imo, the most crucila aspect of using anabolics. If you dont rebound the test properly at the end of cycle, then your gonna wind up wondering why youve been off cycle for over a year and your dick is as limp as a noodle, and that because you fucked up ur test production yrs ago, and youve been pumping test in yourself and now the body has noting to show for it. Im lucky enough to have a script for test, but not everyones doctor is so keen on that since all the bs that govt is dropping the hammer of thor on aas users like we were raging crack addicts, burning down a city. And Ive been a raging crack addict, and Ive seen less ball busting over the blow, in the last 20 yrs than I have with roids...

yea I went off tangent with that, but had to let it flow

 

[4chloro]

Im defiantly liking that recipe youve devised! All the other bullshit people devise with their cycles sometimes cracks me the fuck up, like the guy whos on 9 things with GH and slin cause its his dream cycle, when I can get there with test and tren, and ultra clean diet. I think thats where people fall short and think its the drug they are taking, and the other problem are the drugs that are avaliable. True pharm grade stuff is out there, who just have to know how to reach certain folk. Now, im lucky/unlucky in the sense that and lets be realistic here, Im in my mid 30's, been using since I was 17, so its nearing 20 yrs of use, the first few yrs you arent going to pay attention to this material and go by what your gym buddies tell you, and will fuck up your pct, which imo, the most crucila aspect of using anabolics. If you dont rebound the test properly at the end of cycle, then your gonna wind up wondering why youve been off cycle for over a year and your dick is as limp as a noodle, and that because you fucked up ur test production yrs ago, and youve been pumping test in yourself and now the body has noting to show for it. Im lucky enough to have a script for test, but not everyones doctor is so keen on that since all the bs that govt is dropping the hammer of thor on aas users like we were raging crack addicts, burning down a city. And Ive been a raging crack addict, and Ive seen less ball busting over the blow, in the last 20 yrs than I have with roids...

yea I went off tangent with that, but had to let it flow

I've often said that as far as gear goes all one really needs is DHT (Proviron/Masteron etc) Testosterone and Trenbolone. I also consider hCG a necessary ancillary. hGH also has it's place, depending on the person and what they're running etc. I usually get shut down for this of course, AAS forum goer's tend to take opinions such as those personally for whatever reason.
There was a guy, Swiper, on another forum (I forget which) who has been on 500mg of Testosterone and 2-6iu's of hGH for 11 years running and he is one enormous and shredded dude.

Lets not get started on the whole DEA, FDA, Government steroid bullshit. If it all made sense, then it couldn't be called politics. I could rant about it for hours and it won't change a damn thing.
Most people are just ignorant towards them in general and have trouble comprehending that there are many different steroids and that they don't just come in a vial or bottle labeled "steroids" which cause you to be a looming, radioactive retard in the body of a jerk.

Doc's are also just complete idiots about them as well. I've walked into a Dr's office complaining of pain and gotten a script for opiates no questions asked, and the same for amphetamines after complaining about ADHD symptoms, which in my case are legitimate, but all I had to do was ask. I've been to an Endocrinologist to have my labs done, and in his write up of the results states "...there is no sign of androgen deficiency..." flipping the page I see that my TT was 208ng/dl (250-1100) and my LH and FSH were undetectable, all of this was expected on my end of course. But I mean, really?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Let's not post any "how-to" guides on creating an injectible steroid - if you are merely extracting a steroid from a pellet, you theoretically should be able to talk about this here.

Keep in mind that if there is going to be a considerable amount of dangerous chemicals involved, you might want to include applicable warnings as you go along.

 

[thegent]

Depends what cycle you want to run, but from my research in the past anastrozole at .5mg/day was great when I was running over 500mg/test en week. Letro is really powerful stuff and I'd only recommend it if you were developing gyno.

 

[EmmaD]

Can clomiphene reduce the efficacy of anastrozole ?buy sildenafil and go online cards games can't find anything about it.

 

[TheGlimmaMan]

Can clomiphene reduce the efficacy of anastrozole ?

can't find anything about it.

No anastrozole, will defeat the purpose of clomid. Clomid is meant to raise estogen levels, as its really more for female fertility, where anastrozole is an aromatise inhibitor, and used in cancer patients to counter act the excess estrogen. My mother uses adex, because she has had breast cancer, and will remain on it for the next several yrs to aid in keeping the cancer in remission, that it is thankfully in.

 

[thegent]

Clomid made me cry like a bitch.

 

[Yellowcabs]

were you using Tren with this cycle? Using an AI, especially as strong as Aromasin should almost gaurentee not getting gyno on cycle, but if you were running say Tren and DEca together, you got a case of progesterone induced gyno. And the novla just kept the inflammation down, now you have gyno bro, and the second you notice your nipples becoming hard or even lactating you should start taking a good 40-60mgs of novla to supress it before it has a real chance to start, if you started novla once its full blown, its like cancer only in remission, you may have to get he glands removed

No tren, just a long cycle of test prop, dbol and later sustoject 250 and Epistane

 

[4chloro]

No tren, just a long cycle of test prop, dbol and later sustoject 250 and Epistane

Dbol aromatises to methylestradiol which is much stronger than normal estradiol, therefore you can reduce the amount of methyl estradiol, but because it is so potent some people still get gyno from low dosages of it. The only way to effectively counter it if you are sensitive is through antagonization.

Clomiphene is a "Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator" (SERM), which is different from an Aromatase inhibitor in that it has a stronger binding affinity to certain estrogen receptors (Namely in the pituitary and in breast tissue) but because of it's molecular shape prevents the receptor from being able to do anything. SERM's will increase the amount of circulating estradiol, however it won't be able to bind to any receptors (or at least as many).

Aromatase inhibitors just binds to the enzyme that turns testosterone (and other steroids) into estradiol, thus rendering it inactive and reducing the effects of estrogen by directly lowering circulating blood levels.

DHT reduces estrogenic activity through both of these pathways in a balanced manner.

They won't lower the effectiveness of one or another, however there is some train of thought that Letrozole can lower the amount of Tamoxifen or something, but it's never been proven and the effect likely insignificant. I don't think it's necessary to run Tamoxifen or Letro anyways let alone together.

 

[Yellowcabs]

I would be scared to do another cycle and not run Letro through it

 

[-Guido-]

As much as I like Letrozole and it's being the final solution to gyno I think I actually prefer Anastrozle in the long run. Letro is pretty hard to get just the right dosage for yourself and I noticed that it makes me break out like a motherfucker. Anastrozle is just as effective but doesn't wreak havoc on my skin and is easier to dose correctly.

I would say that for the beginner Anastrozle is the way to go, for advanced users or someone wanting to nip gyno in the ass if they are suffering puffy or itchy nipples, then Letrozole is the way to go.

Overall they both have their place in a cycle.