Lemon Essential Oil

[jookie]

Do you guys find that it helps a lot with nausea (specifically with psychedelics?) Tried it with an degraded batch of 4-AcO-DMT (only ~17mg) and it made me quite nauseous. Has anyone who tried degraded (brown) 4-AcO-DMT noticed significant nausea? I never get nausea from DMT, mushrooms, or LSD. Although I get a fair amount of nausea from phenylethamines (besides entactogens) like the 2C's.

 

[sekio]

Lemon essential oil, like most citrus oil, is going to be >95% D-limonene, minor constituents being things like pinenes, octanols, octyl aldehydes. It will have very little central effect. Don't believe the ype about limonene being active centrally, because it's a major component in many, many plants and is a very basic monoterpene.
Citrus essential oils, esp. if stored improperly or aged (allowed to oxidise) can produce limonene epoxide, a known skin sensitiser in many (c.f. Florida orange picker's rash). Don't bathe in the stuff.

If applied sparingly (maybe as a 1-2% solution in alcohol) you can drip the oils onto e.g. cannabis for a ncie aftertaste.

A better remedy is fresh whole ginger root (dried/candied/preserved is a good substitute, as there are strong antinauseant compounds in ginger root.

 

[Ineffable14]

Do you guys find that it helps a lot with nausea (specifically with psychedelics?) Tried it with an degraded batch of 4-AcO-DMT (only ~17mg) and it made me quite nauseous. Has anyone who tried degraded (brown) 4-AcO-DMT noticed significant nausea? I never get nausea from DMT, mushrooms, or LSD. Although I get a fair amount of nausea from phenylethamines (besides entactogens) like the 2C's.

I find that lemon EO really helps in the nausea/body load department. i have said this a few times here around the forums.

It contains high amounts of beta-pinene, the same chemical constituent in ginger that relives nausea, only in Lemon EO it is in much higher concentrations. I believe that it is said to be a 5-ht3(receptor thought to be responsible for serotonergeric nausea) antagonist, so any peripheral affinity to this receptor site from most psychedelics should be curbed, and IME, it works wonderfully, especially phenethylamines. I never dose 2c-e with out it anymore. Hope this helps.

Also, how was your brown aco? I have some that has degraded as well and was always curious to any potency it may still hold. Love to hear the qualitative differences.

 

[jookie]

I had mild visuals. Kept feeling like I'd get to "that point" only to never reach it. Plus, I was throwing up a good quarter of the time (which has never happened to me in the 8 or so times I've used mushrooms). I've never tried less than 2 grams of mushrooms, but I expect the ~17mg of degraded 4-aco-dmt to be similar to that.

 

[sekio]

It contains high amounts of beta-pinene,

No, less than 1% by weight in citrus oil. Alpha pinene in fact predominates over beta in lemons.

the same chemical constituent in ginger that relives nausea

Nope, that would be the gingerols, shogaols, and zinergone. Beta pinene is the minor component of pine turpentine - it's not an antinauseant.

 

[Ineffable14]

No, less than 1% by weight in citrus oil. Alpha pinene in fact predominates over beta in lemons.



Nope, that would be the gingerols, shogaols, and zinergone. Beta pinene is the minor component of pine turpentine - it's not an antinauseant.

Hmm my research tells me differant.
The high concentration was in comparison to ginger, which does in fact contain beta pinene and in much higher concentration than in ginger, a known 5ht3 antagonist. Run a google search or an academic primer search and you'll see its a known antiemetic from its action on the 5ht3 site.
There's been research on isolates of beta pinene for treatment of chemo nausea, with promising results, it acts in a similar way to odansetron.

And again, I used to puke everytime from 2ce, iv had seven tests since then all which I had been preloading with lemon eo, and six out of seven, an absents of nausea was observed. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself.

 

[sekio]

I'm a terpene chemist, trust me on this - B-pinene is inactive.
If this were the case, pine needles would make an excellent anti-nauseant as the essential oil can be up to 30% B-pinene. (Related compounds from the metabolism of the pinenes are excellent bronchorelaxants though.)


I'm not debating whether or not lemon oil is an anti-nauseant, all I'm saying is it is stupendously unlikely that any type of pinene is the causative agent. Unfortunately the people at the dmt nexus are far from reliable sources. Take that as you will.

 

[electrodevo]

I'm a terpene chemist, trust me on this - B-pinene is inactive.

I think it's this link -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17511060 -- is where people are deriving the conclusion that β-pinene may be a 5HT3 inhibitor. Curious what you think of that. There are no other references to beta-pinene out there saying anything one way or another receptor wise, which data wise is rather frustrating.

Of course, the study is using ginger essential oil, and you can go to other studies involving many other anti-nausea compounds present in ginger... it's the more proven solution at the moment.

Most references I do find (eg http://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/38(2)/PJB38(2)319.pdf and https://ir.kochi-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/10126/574/4/IJA140127.pdf) seem to list β-pinene composition in essential lemon oil as between 11-13%, which is indeed far more than ginger. So the exact nature of β-pinene's 5-HT3 antagonism, if any, is pretty important to answer the question of whether lemon oil reduces nausea, specifically 5-HT3 agonist induced nausea.

 

[slo mo]

Hmm my research tells me differant.
The high concentration was in comparison to ginger, which does in fact contain beta pinene and in much higher concentration than in ginger, a known 5ht3 antagonist. Run a google search or an academic primer search and you'll see its a known antiemetic from its action on the 5ht3 site.
There's been research on isolates of beta pinene for treatment of chemo nausea, with promising results, it acts in a similar way to odansetron.

And again, I used to puke everytime from 2ce, iv had seven tests since then all which I had been preloading with lemon eo, and six out of seven, an absents of nausea was observed. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself.

I tried with 30mg 2c-t-7, and no nausea. There was a time where I felt nausea on it's way, but I took a bit more lemon oil and no hints of nausea. Is there any data that can inform us on a comparative amount of lemon oil to zofran? How much lemon oil is similar to 8mg zofran ?

Btw, how much 2c-e / lemon oil did you take the time you did puke?

 

[jason7]

I investigated this, because I want to find a way to prevent psych nausea. Lemon oil has never been used or recommended for nausea. Beta-pinene is not a 5-HT3 receptor antagonist and is actually rather common in essential oils. It's a major constituent in parsley oil for instance. The major component of lemon oil, limomene, is good for heartburn and acid reflux but that's about all. No antinausea effects. I haven't actually tried it myself but I can't see how it could possibly work.

Now peppermint oil IS used for nausea, and is actually better for preventing nausea in pregnant women than 5-HT3 antagonist pharmas. The main component is menthol, which does have 5-HT3 antagonist effects though not by directly binding with the receptors. The menthol apparently only accounts for about half of the effects of peppermint oil though, so you need the whole oil. They don't fully understand how it works but it does involve 5-HT3 receptors in some way. Again, I haven't actually tried it yet, since I have just started this investigation. Just thought I'd report here what I found so far. I'll report on in vivo results later.

 

[Ismene]

I generally find almost anything works the first once or twice you take it to combat nausea - then the placebo effect wears off and the thing you took to prevent nausea actually starts causing it. Particularly when it smells as strong as lemon or peppermint.

 

[jason7]

I just tried peppermint oil with one hit of LSZ and I took 4 drops but it didn't seem to help much. I think it may have cut back the cruddy feeling slightly but not enough. I resorted to taking 50 mg diphenhydramine about 20 minutes ago. I'll tell you later if it helps or not. It's 3 hours after taking the LSZ and I'm at maximum crappy feeling right now. Eating some bread didn't help. Made me feel cruddier. I think the peppermint oil may actually have made me sicker than usual on LSZ. I'm still burping peppermint.

 

[kman1898]

I'm a terpene chemist, trust me on this - B-pinene is inactive.
If this were the case, pine needles would make an excellent anti-nauseant as the essential oil can be up to 30% B-pinene. (Related compounds from the metabolism of the pinenes are excellent bronchorelaxants though.)


I'm not debating whether or not lemon oil is an anti-nauseant, all I'm saying is it is stupendously unlikely that any type of pinene is the causative agent. Unfortunately the people at the dmt nexus are far from reliable sources. Take that as you will.

What I don't understand when is why don't people use Ginger Essential Oil? Shouldn't it still have all the properties of ginger that's been made into tea except it's extracted essential oil? [link removed by request]

And beta-pinene is definitely inactive.

 

[logansanders]

I wanted to talk about their experiences of using essential oils this year. I have great help here this recipe:

• 8 drops of jojoba oil
• 4 drops of ginger essential oil
• 4 drops of lemon essential oil

Directions: In a clean, dark-colored glass bottle, blend the aromatic oils with jojoba oil. Then add a few drops of the mixture to your aromatherapy diffuser, and mist the atmosphere of your room (source)
Be sure to try this recipe - it is safe and effective