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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Legalise everything? Opinions.

You could never legalise illicit drugs as they are now.
Obviously, the production would have to be in a legit factory by proper pharmacists...
Ha! imagine that - u could get pills @ 80mg (advised/prescribed for novices), 100mg, 120mg, 140mg, 160mg - strictly only for the hardcore!
 
This topic is giving me mind congestion...
but...
cancle...i agree with the points you made about lsd and schizophrenia and how if it were legal people could go and be told wether or not to take it etc etc etc, but then think of the people who COULD/CAN take it, have a bad trip and jump off a building...
The whole point im trying to get at is that society as a whole (the odd 75% that i am classifying as a whole here, you know the ones im talking about...) prefers to be in the dark about bad things, and consequences, and effects of what they put into their bodies, and what could happen if they went home with 3 different people in one night etc etc etc that if hard drugs were made legal, they would do them with no thought to their consequences..(did u give a thought to the consequences of when you first ever got drunk? i dont think too many people did.)
what im trying (not very articulately) to get at here is that i see alot of people freaking out, their friends freaking out cos they are freaking out and eventually someone "jumping off a building" so to speak... (this could mean hurting themselves or another person, or eachother, or just jumping off a building)
Dont forget with drugs like PCP you can feel so invincible that if you were really fucked enough you could hurt yourself ALOT and not even give a fuck.
i know alcohol is a self regulating drug in that it makes you sick when you have overdosed on it in your bodys attempt to purge itself of the toxin, but does that stop a vast majority from overdosing themselves on it every weekend, perhaps even every day?
imagine that this vast majority person discovered they liked MDMA or amphetamines or cocaine better than a boozy stint at the local? and then proceeded to just as stupidly overdo it on the drugs as they did on the alkyholz?
Disfunctional society i see.
still, ive had a friend who has lived in amsterdam for a while, where the laws are alot more lax on certain drugs, and she found that you got a 3 way split on the type of people that lived with the laws...
you got 1/3 who just went hardcore on it and did nothing else and basically could not function without them
you got 1/3 who used drugs recreationally and in a safe and responsible manner
then you got the 1/3 that thought drugs were the scourge of the earth and would rather be dead than smoke a joint.
my ranting above is generally a worst case scenario, if everything was legalised i think you would have alot of people who wouldnt try anything at all out of principle, alot would dally but find the experience too much for mind/ego/spirit to handle, you would get the majority who would be responsible and enjoy the occasion, then the few who would base their lives upon them and thus ruin themselves totally.
i still wouldnt like everything legalised, some things should NEVER be legalised, most things should be decriminalised and controlled, but generally as long as the person who wishes to take a certain substance is well informed of the effects, side effects, what to do if something bad happens and how to prevent something bad from happening if possible, then they should be allowed to take whatever they like.
if a person just sticks something in their mouth/vein/nose and has no fucking clue about what its going to do to them, then they should not be allowed to take a damn thing.
anyways, there are the congested remains of my decongested brain...
Andromeda :)
 
Hey Andro, don't worry about being inarticulate. We can both stumble acroos words getting frustrated when they don't say things as eloquently as they should.
think of the people who COULD/CAN take it, have a bad trip and jump off a building...
Anyone can take it now. Think about how much easier it was to score weed or other drugs then buying alchohol or cigarettes.
The whole point im trying to get at is that society as a whole...prefers to be in the dark about bad things,
If drugs were goverment regulated it would not be possible to memaine in the dark. I mean think about how aware you are about the amount of alchohol you ingest. I know I could rattle off a few numbers involving BAC, standared drinks, grams of alchohol ect...
Education is the key. The goverment would make sure everyone was as educated as they should be before taking any drugs(I know that's putting way to much unrealistic faith in the goverment).
i see alot of people freaking out, their friends freaking out cos they are freaking out and eventually someone "jumping off a building" so to speak...
I don't know about you, but a lot of the time when I 'freak out'(and beleive me, I do) it's often related to police, lack of safety, medical issuse, mental heath issues ect..Many things that would be greatly improved if these drugs were legal. Obviously someone on acid is going to find something to 'freak out' about, but I'm sure that knowing you were educated and that there were measure to be taken if somethings bad happened would definately make you feel better.
imagine that this vast majority person discovered they liked MDMA or amphetamines or cocaine better than a boozy stint at the local? and then proceeded to just as stupidly overdo it on the drugs as they did on the alkyholz?
I see that scenario as highly unlikely. I just realised I can't really justify that statement. There are always going to be people who are going to fuck themselves up, in no case would it be the vast majority, but there will always be a fucked up few. It would be the goverments responsiblity to try and prevent people abusing drugs, but I would in no way blame the goverment if people did.
still, ive had a friend who has lived in amsterdam for a while
After an initially spike in use of Marijuana. The Netherlands now has less weed use per capita(excluding tourists) than many places where weed is illegal.(there are figures for this in the Economist article I posted a link to earlier.)
There have always been people who are fucked up. Even when stone henge was being built there would have been individuals who would have been tripping on mushrooms on a daily basis. When the pyramids were being built...well you get the idea.(actually I couldn't think of another example)
It's your responsibility to kep yourself from causing harm to yourself. No one else should do that especially when it infringes on human rights.
 
Originally posted by cancle:
Anfa-What about alchohol? That's man made.

Haven't read the last 2 books, err posts, yet. Just have to post this b4 I forget.
Cancle: the difference is, alcohol is brewed, it's not a complex chemical synthesis. You're alowed to brew your own beer, and almost any idiot in the street can do it...
Anyways, alcohol is already legal. The main point to my argument is, if I can grow it, and I don't sell it to anyone, dont do it out in public etc. then who the fuck is it hurting and whose business is it other than mine?
 
Cancle: the difference is, alcohol is brewed, it's not a complex chemical synthesis.
You're right. It's only a simple chemical reaction. Although it's possible that alchohol could occur naturally, I still think alchohol is man made.
You're alowed to brew your own beer, and almost any idiot in the street can do it...
I reckon every one could make meth pretty easy if there were meth brewing shops. I think anyone could do it.
Anyways, alcohol is already legal.
Exactly.
The main point to my argument is, if I can grow it, and I don't sell it to anyone, dont do it out in public etc. then who the fuck is it hurting and whose business is it other than mine?
It's no one else's buisness. I think you can do whatever you want without harming others. I still can't see the difference between chems and plants.
Especially legalising them. I mean people will always want to do chems. The whole point of my argument is that when they do use them, it should be a safe as possible. Lab Produced. Correct dosage. Educated user ect...
Quite frankly I don't see how you could beleive in harm-reduction and not support legalised drugs.
[ 24 March 2002: Message edited by: cancle ]
 
i thought people might be interested in reading my article from Whack (magazine of Victorian User group), March 2001, also carried in a slightly different form in Green Left Weekly www.greenleft.org.au
apologies for the length of the post. a lot of the article does use heroin as the basis for the debate, but i try and lay the argument for across-the-board legalisation
Options for drug law reform
BY MICHAEL ARNOLD
Over recent years the “drug problem” has been regularly discussed in the corporate media. In the midst of this discussion, more than 1000 Australian heroin users have died as a result of overdoses between 1996 and 2000.
While drug forums and community consultations have been held in many
localities across Australia, the federal and state governments refuse to
consider alternatives to drug prohibition. This is despite the arguments of
many doctors, law enforcement officers, health professionals, and drug users
that this approach has resulted in an explosion of property crime, a crisis in
public health and the systematic persecution of a large section of the
population.
The federal government’s National Drug Strategy enshrines a policy of “harm
minimisation”. Harm minimisation contains three pillars:
l<~>Demand reduction — education aimed at stopping people from using
drugs; as well as counselling or job-creation that may reduce the impetus for
some people to use drugs.
l<~>Harm reduction — programs that seek to reduce direct harm to users,
e.g., needle syringe provision and disposal services, methadone programs,
etc.
l<~>Supply reduction — programs that boost police and customs resources
and seek to stop the flow of drugs into the country or a particular suburb.
Most government resources are allocated to supply reduction. But supply
reduction measures often negate harm reduction work. With less of the drug
available, users often substitute another drug, causing damage to their
health. As the price is driven up, petty property crime increases as users look
for a way to obtain the money needed to purchase the amount of the drug
that their body has become accustomed to.
This is what has happened in Australia during the last seven months, as the
supply of heroin has dried up, partly as a result of police measures.
It is evident to many people that the current laws and policies surrounding
drug use are bankrupt and need to be changed. What form change should
take is a matter of heated debate.
There are three main options canvassed in the drug reform debate:
medicalisation, decriminalisation and legalisation.
Medicalisation
Medicalisation refers to making currently-prohibited drugs available through
prescription by a medical professional. This system was trialed for heroin in
Switzerland between 1996 and 2000, and is now a feature of Swiss medical
practice for provision of both heroin and, in a more limited way, cocaine.
During the Swiss heroin trials, which involved around 1500 participants,
participation in violent crime dropped to one-seventh of its pre-trial rate, with
only one participant in every 100 committing violent acts.
Prior to participation in the trial around one user in every four suffered from
symptoms of depression, schizophrenia and other forms of mental illness.
After one year on prescription diacetylmorphine (heroin), only 5% were
affected by these conditions. Drug user participation in property crime
dropped by half and dealing dropped to one-third of its pre-trial rate.
Over the last five years a range of new pharmacotherapies (drugs used in
the maintenance of or withdrawal from an opiate dependence) have been
trialed in Australian capital cities. The most trialed, buprenorphine, will now
be available through GPs.
When the pharmacotherapie trials were originally conceived, a
diacetylmorphine provision trial was to have been included (known commonly
as the “ACT heroin trial”, although it would also have involved Melbourne,
Sydney and Adelaide users). This was ultimately blocked by the Howard
government, which refused to alter federal laws to allow for the importation or
production of diacetylmorphine.
Supporters of medicalisation argue that it allows users of drugs that
potentially have damaging effects to the body and/or mind access to
continuous medical care. They argue that the process of obtaining a
prescription may discourage young people from starting to use these
substances, particularly in an ongoing way that could lead to dependence.
And of course those users who are able to access prescriptions will receive
affordable, medical-grade gear.
But under these programs, drugs users are reliant on medical practitioners
for their drug supply. This has the potential to significantly reduce users'
liberty. Methadone maintenance programs (MMP) are an example of the way
in which medicalisation of a drug can be used as a form of social control.
Methadone is a synthetic opiate which prevents a user from feeling heroin
withdrawal symptoms. Taking methadone regularly allows me to work without
the daily stress and financial pressures associated with a heroin
dependency. However, as a participant in a MMP I must report to my
pharmacist five days a week. Having been a “very good boy” for five years,
and having a constructive relationship with a very good doctor, I have the
“luxury” of two take-away doses a week. I also have the more unusual
privilege of being able to get dosed at another chemist while I am working in
the city during the week.
However, in order to go away for work, pleasure, or protest I must apply
weeks in advance for take-away doses or to use a different chemist. And I am
not allowed to be away from a chemist for seven days. Users without good
relationships with their doctor or chemist, who return “dirty” urine tests or who
are hit by financial difficulties, stand to lose take-away privileges — denying
them freedom of movement — or may lose access to methadone altogether.
This can mean that they must satisfy a massive opiate dependence — often
paid for by crime — or face a withdrawal potentially far worse than that
associated with heroin use.
Participants in the Swiss program must attend three times a day to be dosed.
This often causes massive lifestyle disruption and severe restrictions on
travel.
So medicalisation can either benefit or control users’ lives, depending on the
conditions of the programs.
Decriminalisation
The second option is decriminalisation. This involves the removal of criminal penalties from the use
of illicit drugs.
Where drugs have been decriminalised, possession, and production of these
drugs for personal use, is often dealt with like a traffic law infringement. The
obvious benefit from decriminalisation is that users do not receive a criminal
record or face the threat of jail time if found with drugs.
However, in most decriminalised systems the state maintains the right to
enter your premises or search your person, seize your stash, and you cop a
fine for your troubles.
In South Australia and the ACT, possession and growth of small amounts of
marijuana have been decriminalised. But the hassles associated with growing
your own dope means that most users still rely on the black market.
It is unclear how decriminalisation of fully-synthetic drugs such as speed or
ecstasy would work. They need to be produced by trained chemists, not in
backyard laboratories. The amount of poppy required for making heroin, and
the skill needed to turn opium into diacetylmorphine indicates that production
and distribution of opiates is unlikely to be carried out by amateurs.
Decriminalisation supporters proceed from the premise that citizens need to
be protected from currently-illicit drugs, but that drug use is primarily a
medical issue, not a legal one.
In my opinion, it remains a part of the prohibitionist arsenal, and is s unlikely to lead to a fundamental change in the treatment
and well-being of drug users, as the black market will retain control of
production, and the police will continue to engage in supply control
measures.
Legalisation
My preferred option for drug law reform is full legalisation. This means the
removal of all legal restrictions on access to drugs, with the possible
exception of age limits (which are already applied to legal drugs).At the same time as laws on the use of drugs are lifted, a range of new laws may need to come into place governing production and distribution of drugs.. The most likely form of
distribution under a legalised system would be over the counter at
pharmacies, or through pubs or cafes.
Legalisation recognises the basic human right to control our own bodies and
minds. Laws should be used to protect users’ consumer and medical rights,
not as instruments of social control.
There are yet to be many working examples of full legalisation of an illicit
drug in the developed world. The International Narcotics Control Board
usually acts quickly to stomp on any reform agenda. However, legal advice
provided to the Swiss and to Australian policy reformers suggests that the
Convention on Narcotics Control does allow nation-states the right to
determine their policy on legality if they feel changes will benefit the health
and well-being of their citizens.
I, and the majority of drug-user activists I know, support the full legalisation of
illicit drugs used for recreation or self-medication. However, for speed,
cocaine and heroin in particular, medically supervised trials that provide the
drug to dependent people is likely to be a vital first step.
A current issue for the movement is the recent reports that marijuana reform activists in Nimbin have actively opposed reform options for users of other drugs in a campaign that is being waged in Northern NSW in response to police arrests. It is certainly not a new phenomena. This “pot-purism” is slowing the development of a united movement for law reform.
All drugs, including pot, can be used in ways that are harmful, or in ways that
are of personal benefit — social, emotional, or physical. This is likely to be
true regardless of the legal system controlling the use of drugs. Until legal
barriers are removed, we will not know which harms are caused by
prohibition. Thus we do not really know how to target harm reduction and
other health messages for users.
Divide and rule is the oldest strategy in the book. Its employed to keep oppressed groups on the fringes. Users across the country are understandably desperate to pressure policy makers into implementing law reform. But selling users of other drugs down the river in order to cut a deal for your subculture is not the way to do it. Building a united mass movement of drug users and our supporters is.
A significant number of pot smokers (I don’t have exact stats although its probably not quite a majority) also use other drugs. Until we have across-the-board reform these users will continue to face the threat of arrest and incarceration.
Safe injecting rooms
One of the main topics of public debate in recent years, particularly in Melbourne, Sydney and
Canberra, has been safe injecting rooms, labelled ‘shooting galleries’ by the tabloids. These facilities, now being referred to as Medically Supervised Injecting Facilities, offer users a safe, sterile environment in
which to use the drugs they have purchased.
Research, including extensive interviews with users conducted by VIVAIDS as part of the Drug Policy ExpertCommittee consultative process, suggests that injecting facilities will only ever cater for a very particular group of users — generally dependent, and often homeless, users or those who use away from their home.
For these users, facilities like the one recently established in Kings Cross
(which have functioned in Europe for 10 years) offer a great opportunity to
inject somewhere where the risk of virus transmission is minimal, where you
can receive attention if you overdose, and access other services if needed.
These centres, however, would not be necessary if users could access
controlled, regular and affordable doses of their drug of choice. Overdoses
— one of the main harms the centres overcome — affect a majority of lone
users taking drugs in their own home. They can be caused by a sudden rise
in drug-purity or, more often, the combination of the drug with sleeping pills
and/or alcohol (taken to reduce withdrawal symptoms or to supplement the
effects of poor quality heroin). Users often use alone due to fear of prosecution, or concerns about the reactions of family and friends.
Affordable heroin would free users from the poverty traps that result in
homelessness, and allow users to take their drugs in a safe way in their
preferred environment. Safe injecting rooms are an important step, but
hopefully the need for them will be short-lived.
[ 23 October 2002: Message edited by: mibrane ]
 
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icon16.gif
: Awesome article mibrane, thanks!
BigTrancer :D
 
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