Legal Alternative to Replace Ecstasy

PureLife said:
prolly something stupid like ephedrine and 5htp.
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that's what I'm guessing maybe some vitamin or ginko thrown in just for the added effect of people going wtf does that do? must do something.
 
Probably mccp. Erowid.org has some info on it being used as a legal mdma alternative in New Zealand.
 
Im guessing its methylone based
its not piperazine based I know that for certian. I have spoken to someone who has tried it
 
Hey guys, i have an idea.. we'll deal RCs at private parties through a slick flash website under the guise of harm reduction. we're so interested in preventing harm we won't tell users what the drug is 8)
 
frizzantik said:
we're so interested in preventing harm we won't tell users what the drug is 8)
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Yeah, sounds like the scenario here in holland last year concerning the explosion/methylone product. Fucking ignorant.
 
I sent them an email stating how much I supported research of this nature and that I wanted to be kept up-to-date about their progress in the field. Their reply was basically "I'm sorry, we can't send you any products to the United States". They're definitely out to make money, not scientific advancements.
 
Frizz: Bowden has long advocated for accurate product labelling of so-called "party pills" (BZP and TMFPP-based drugs that are legal in New Zealand). I've got some of his party pills on my shelf right now, they have detailed product information and come with 5-HTP for the comedown. They're not as good as MDMA or speed, but they're OK. If this product ever comes to market, it will contain product information. (Btw, you're assuming that he doesn't tell people what's in it - I'm willing to bet that they get product information before they try it).

GenericMind: there's no way he could legally send drugs to you in the US - your laws are different. It has nothing to do with money.

DEA.org: Bowden's already managed to convince the NZ government to re-write the Misuse of Drugs Act to make BZP and TMFPP legal (but controlled). I think he has a reasonable chance of succeeding with this, as well - if he can demonstrate that it's reasonably safe. It might not change the US situation, but that's up to you guys - the drug environment here is very different, much more about harm minimisation than law enforcement :)

Some people asked about the effects: I haven't taken Ease, but Russell Brown (an NZ journalist) has, and posted about it on his weblog. Says it's like a mellow MDMA high (empathy and happiness rather than a euphoric rush).

These guys are not cowboys. I've read pretty much everything Bowden has written about drugs (including articles on Erowid), I've seen him interviewed several times and I've had a brief email exchange with him. He knows his shit. He also set up a harm reduction organisation called AngelCare, which trains people in first aid and dealing with drug-related problems, and sends them to raves/clubs.

I've been meaning to apply for this trial, I'll let you know how I get on.
 
Follow-up: I've signed up with them.

I'm not going to say too much, because in the registration they ask people to respect their confidentiality. But really, there isn't much that I can say.

They ask people for basic medical information (history of depression, heart or liver problems, pregnancy). They require verification of age before they will supply you with the drug. For some reason, they won't let anyone under 21 use it - even though the drinking age here is 18 (also the age at which BZP is legal).

They provide some general information on the drug, and state that it's only intended for people who are very familiar with MDMA. Basically, they say the same things about it that I said in my previous post. However, they don't say what it actually is. I would hope and expect that this information would be provided along with the actual drug.
 
Sim0n said:
I would hope and expect that this information would be provided along with the actual drug.
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likewise.. interested to know more

the fact that they aren't willing to just name the drug up front is suspicious to me.
 
... and is being trialed only as a safer alternative for people who might otherwise use street ecstasy.
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What exactly constitues "safe"? MDMA is much safer than alcohol when used responsibly.

Stargate International Founder, Matt Bowden, said since a member of his family was one of the few New Zealanders to die as a result of taking ecstasy, that he was committed to developing safer, legal alternatives to prevent further drug-related deaths.
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Why replace a drug with only "a few" deaths caused by this drug? Why not find an alternative for alcohol which cause much more than a few deaths.

Mr Bowden said “Ecstasy has a number of neuro-toxic properties which can damage the brain, however animal studies suggest that Ease does not share the mechanism by which brain damage and addictive effects are thought to be produced, so Ease should have considerably less potential for harm than ecstasy.”
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And studies on MDMA don't agree on it's neurotoxic effect either.
 
^^^

You are awfully cynical, my friend :)

Of course you're right that alcohol is more harmful than MDMA - but I don't see any potential replacements out there for alcohol. Not to mention that alcohol is entrenched in our society both in terms of the ubiquity of its use, and in terms of the size and financial power of the people manufacturing it.

MDMA OTOH is illegal, not widespread (in NZ anyway) and potentially neurotoxic. There's a gap in the market for something with broadly equivalent effects to MDMA, but without the legal issues. And hopefully safer: MDMA is *relatively* safe, certainly, but it does carry some risks. I'd certainly be happy to pay for something safer (and, in NZ anyway, cheaper: MDMA is very expensive here).

Do I think MDMA should be legal? Yes. But it will never happen (or not for a long time). Forget it. Developing legal alternatives makes sense to me.

Like I said before, this guy is on our side. He surely wants to make money off this, but if he can deliver me a legal drug with good effects, I don't have much problem with that :)
 
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Sorry to be whoring this thread ;-)

I found Russell Brown's write-up of taking Ease (Russell is very knowledgeable about drugs, he definitely knows his shit):

I've tried Ease too (like Mr Fisher, purely for purposes of journalistic inquiry): it's really pretty good; like ecstasy without the rushes and wonky eyes, but with a similar sense of well-being and sociability. And I got up the next morning and did a full day's work. It seems much less noxious than the piperazine-based pills currently widely available, so there would be a certain irony in it not being eventually declared legal. On the other hand, Matt Bowden may well be right in saying that it lacks the neurotoxic effects of ecstasy, but I would like to know exactly what it is sooner rather than later.
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(emphasis added by me).

From: http://publicaddress.net/default,2740.sm#post2740

So looks like Frizz was right to raise the issue of the contents.
 
Hi!

Just found this thread - going to tie up some unanswered questions.

THE "WE DON'T SHIP" REPLY
First up sorry to everybody outside NZ, particularly those in the USA, I am not going to ship things that could be considered drug analalogues to countries where the recipient could be prosecuted upon receipt. I already have the international profile from hell and am advised that I can never set foot on US soil again. A damn shame, I have dear friends there I will never see again, and I loved some of the scenery up there in arizona and colorado.

WHY DON'T THEY RESEARCH ALCOHOL
We do look at alcohol and other other drug alternatives, but think about what is involved in telling the brewing and liquor industries to change their product lines. Our focus is not just on drug replacements but also on nutritional biochemistry solutions for addiction interruption, cognitive restoration and recovery for people affected by alcohol and other drug usage. Check the website www.stargate.org.nz - [it isn't a shop website, moderators, just an info website.]

WHY THE SECRECY ON THE COMPOUND
Well done everybody who guessed methylone, it can't have been that hard with the right training, let me just say that those people who had adequate training and knowledge to understand technical information on what they were taking who really wanted to know were given the opportunity under terms of a confidentiality agreement to get full disclosure if we trusted them, but only a select few ever did.

Everybody else had the risks of taking the compound explained to them as part of the informed consent process. The idea with getting consent forms witnessed by a JP was that participants would take the thing seriously and read it! We even had a personal presentation or later a DVD presentation explaining the facts and risks to people.


THE "HARD NEWS" REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
The same day Russell Brown posted that he wanted to know sooner rather than later, I contacted him and gave him full disclosure on it as part of a commitment to public transparency. He writes about it here: http://publicaddress.net/default,3066.sm#post3066

I found it difficult to find the right balance between keeping something out of the public arena to stop people with no product knowledge selling it by the gram in corner stores to children and drug naive individuals (as happened in NZ with BZP) and keeping it totally secret. Kiwis, you saw what happened with BZP when we wrote the ingredients on the label and it got copied and mass marketed. Should I have made the same mistake again?

Always open to constructive criticism on how to do it better next time.
 
starboy said:
Hi!
Just found this thread - going to tie up some unanswered questions.

THE "HARD NEWS" REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
The same day Russell Brown posted that he wanted to know sooner rather than later, I contacted him and gave him full disclosure on it as part of a commitment to public transparency. He writes about it here: http://publicaddress.net/default,3066.sm#post3066

I found it difficult to find the right balance between keeping something out of the public arena to stop people with no product knowledge selling it by the gram in corner stores to children and drug naive individuals (as happened in NZ with BZP) and keeping it totally secret. Kiwis, you saw what happened with BZP when we wrote the ingredients on the label and it got copied and mass marketed. Should I have made the same mistake again?

Always open to constructive criticism on how to do it better next time.
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Some very good answers, thanks Matt. I mentioned in the other thread that RB had subsequently posted that you'd told him what was in Ease, under the NDA.

I support the logic behind your argument in the paragraph I quote above. We've got ample evidence that the vast majority of the harm being done by BZP is being done by people selling it in bulk, to n00bs (mostly in Christchurch, it seems). So yeah, we don't want the same thing happening again.

Maybe there's a balance though - maybe you could have said something like: "Ministry of Health knows what is in Ease, and has raised no concerns. We've researched it in depth, and don't have any concerns. We've also provided details of the ingredients to journalists under an NDA. We will consider providing details of the ingredients to users, on request, if you sign an NDA and can explain what you will do with the information".

So e.g. someone writes to you and says "I'll go look it up on Erowid, just so I can be sure about what I'm taking". Personally, that would give me a bit extra assurance (even though I know that Stargate have obviously read everything on Erowid themselves, there's nothing like some personal research for peace of mind :) )
 
really would like to hear more about peoples expereinces using piperazines.
anyone that want to PM me some tried sources would be great
 
whoa! mdma is safer than alchohol! im gonna start rollin every day now. not hard. il just have a half a pill with dinner instead of my couple glasses of wine and then ill roll hard all weedend! i should be fine right? i mean, ive only been drinkin every day for a little over a year, but im fine! if extacy is safer im gonna replace it with that. i was real worried about my liver anyways.
 
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