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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Legal Advice please

Baker

Baker

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
1,113
Sorry to create another legal advice thread, its just that I wanted to get an educated opinion on my situation.

I was in Sydney heading to an event and got sniffed by the sniffer dogs and got told they were going to perform a strip search on me.
So I decided when they asked me if I had any drugs I was already pretty screwed so I handed them over.
Basically I did everything they said as they examined the drugs.
They assumed the 2 caps were speed so I followed along even though they were 2c-b. :(
Along with 10mg valium.

So after their testing or whatever they were doing came out and told me the capsules were empty and that I’d been jipped by whoever my dealer was. (they each had 10mg in them)
They then issued me with this yellow slip and I got charged with possession as it still counts as speed even if there is nothing inside the capsules as I intentionally bought it as speed. They gave me some yellow papers and said I didn’t need to go back to the station as they took me back to the front of the que and sent me on my way.

Anyway, I've got a court hearing coming up and the problem is I won't be in Sydney as I’m at uni 6 hours from Sydney when its due. I don't really want to tell my parents the whole story and am willing to pay the fine.

Except if I go to court I am willing to accept that I will have to tell my parents and get there help, I just want another opinion on how deep I really am. My friend who was done for possession got some hidden criminal record so only the police can view it and he can still apply for visas, uni, etc. Does anyone know if I’d be up for the same (or is it all based on luck) In which case would it be in my best interests to go to court?

Just weighing up my options :\
thanks for listening
 
If you had a vitamin c tablet, and you thought it was ecstasy, you still get done for ecstasy.

In WA, police 'flag' you, so when you get pulled over, you are likely to get your car searched.

Also, have you checked the yellow sheet, maybe it will say you can mail in a guilty plea, saves you from going to court....
 
yeah I can mail in a guilty plea.
and I know I still get done as if it were speed. I can kick myself as much as I wish I had done things differently, but it's done now and I can't change it.

So i'm just wondering if I send in the sheet and plead guilty what the punishment will be like.

As if i'm going to get a record for pleading guilty, i'd do things differently to avoid getting a record as much as possible
 
Check the "Caught by Undercovers" thread. There is some dude's in that who got caught with LOTS of gear and still didnt cop a conviction.

Because you are a uni student...etc, my guess is you'll prolly cop a $200-300 fine and no conviction. It depends on the magistrate though.
 
Its not the fine i'm worried about though.
I'm worried about what will happen if I don't go to court
 
yeah I thought that too, smoked some weed the night before.
Again I can only feel stupid about how I could have done things differently.
I can kick myself as much as I want for doing things differently but it doesn't change anything.

Wish it had actually been speed too and not something so hard to get like 2c-b :(
 
if you dont go to court they'll issue a warrant for your arrest.
 
They then issued me with this yellow slip and I got charged with possession as it still counts as speed even if there is nothing inside the capsules as I intentionally bought it as speed.
Click to expand...
That is completely incorrect. You say it was 2-CB, then your intention was that you were buying 2-CB. Why accept what they are saying. If they have found no drugs you were in possession of no drugs.

If you had a vitamin c tablet, and you thought it was ecstasy, you still get done for ecstasy.
Click to expand...
That is even more incorrect. Why should someone be charged for possessing vitamin C no matter what they believed it was.

You cannot be charged with possessing a prohibited drug if you do not actually possess a prohibited drug. If that were so, why would they bother analysing seized drugs and why would people get charged with possessing different types of drugs, if it didn't matter what one actually possessed.

When the police substitute the prohibited imports with fake drugs the offenders are still charged because the offence is importation of a prohibited import rather than actual possession of that drug (the importation having already occurred). When people do a cross country supply of drugs and they are intercepted the supplier is charged with supply or attempted supply (depending on the definition of supply in your State's drug laws) and the recipient, where it can be proved, is charged with attempting to possess the drug, despite being in actual possession of an inert substance.


In WA valium is not a prohibited drug in tablet form so it may be worth checking with a lawyer whether or not valium is a prohibited drug in your state. By prohibited drug I do not mean a drug for which a prescription is required but a drug for which possession without authority is illegal - morphine, dexamphetamine, ritalin, steroids to name by a few plus the usual "illicit" suspects.

Some charge may arise from your circumstances - an attempt to possess a prohibited drug or something, but that would always be hard to prove, depending on what you said.

To actually possess a prohibited drug, that drug, and not any other substance, must be in your actual or constructive possession and you must have knowledge that it is in your possession (that is the knowlege of the presence of the substance, not necessarily the identity of the specific drug).

The High Court case of Cameron v The Queen says that where an accused is charged with possession of drugs, the particular drug must be specifically identified, before the accused should be expected to plead guilty to the charge. (in this case the accused was charged with possession of MDMA tablets that later turned out to be methylamphetamine). Given that one should not be convicted of possessing a different drug than what is actually possessed, how can one ever be convicted of possession of a drug if no drug was possessed!

In that case Kirby J said:
In our system of criminal justice the issue is whether, according to the requisite standard, the prosecuting authority can prove that the accused was guilty of the offence charged. Until the prosecutor sorted out the accurate identity of the particulars of the charge it was presenting against the appellant, it was unreasonable for the prosecutor, or the court, to expect the applicant to plead guilty. Especially was this so because the charge as originally particularised was subsequently shown to have been inaccurate.
Click to expand...
Given that, I wholly recommend you do not plead guilty to possessing speed when you either possessed nothing or 2-CB. If one were to get caught, you would definitely prefer to be sentenced for 2-CB than methylamphetamine, in my opinion.

Find out the exact nature of the charge, the facts supporting that charge and the provision of the law that you are accused of breaking, before pleading to anything!
 
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No problem.

I should qualify what I said by expanding on this notion of attempted possession. It would be relatively rare, but where a person has attempted to acquire, e.g. some MDMA tablets, and has ended up with an inert substance, a charge of attempting to possess MDMA may be able to be brought. But the police would need further evidence of the circumstances to have any hope of proving that you did make such an attempt. And most of the evidence needed is the sought that would be obtained covertly due to an accused being involved in a significant operation. The couple of pills we may have in our pockets is as far from this as one could get.

Examples include:

1) Evidence of phonecalls or the like showing you were organising the purchase of MDMA tablets;

2) Money being handed over in circumstances where one could infer you are attempting to acquire drugs

3) Or you admit to the police what you have in your possession - it is this last instance where most may get caught out.

But from my mind, if you are searched and police find 2 vitamin C tablets in your wallet in a clipseal bag (= suspicious circumstances) and you say absolutely nothing about what they may be, when the tests come back the charges will or should be dropped. You were not in possession of MDMA, the evidence is insufficient to show you attempted to be in possession of MDMA, and regardless of what people may allege was your intention regarding the tablets, or what the circumstances seem to reflect, you have said nothing about what you think they are or how they came to be packaged like that and in your wallet. Case over.
 
thanks for that

So you suggest going to court, or could I write all this in a letter to appeal in my absence?
Because i'll be in another state and if its serious then i'll miss a week of uni to go to court.
 
I concur fully with biscuit.

Mistake of fact is a defence to actual possession charges.

I suggest you take the week off uni, get yourself a good lawyer and go to court.

Whats a week of uni to a possible criminal conviction really mate?
 
yeah, I defenitely agree, which is why I was just checking and it only makes sense for me to go to court there is practically no justification for not going, I guess now I just gotta find some money and a good lawyer.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
 
Definitely find a solicitor. You should be able to find one who will do a first consultation for free (don't hesitate to explain that you're a poor uni student - in fact your student union should be able to recommend someone.)

It's your barrister that will do the work, and you'll probably have to pay him/her. If the circumstances are as you've described, I think you have an excellent chance of having the charges dismissed.

One tip: when you talk to the barrister, simply answer his/her questions. DO NOT talk about what you think was in the capsules unless they ask (and they won't). Barristers have rules about leading evidence, and there are some things they don't want to know.
 
This thread is an excellent example of Bluelight working in action. Kudos to you Baker for deciding to start this thread. However good or bad your personal case goes, I hope it will inspire those who find themselves in similar positions to 'post before they plead' so to speak. Good luck, and be sure to let us know how everything goes!
 
Wish it had actually been speed too and not something so hard to get like 2c-b
Click to expand...

Interesting that the capsules were "empty" - can only guess that some one copped a noseful of 2cb that they weren't expecting...

It's my understanding that you could be done for dealing a fake drug in the same way as if it was actually a drug - but not possession.

And it's a really strong reinforcer to not admit to an offence - make them work and prove your guilt in future!

Yep - get a lawyer. I'd suggest Redfern Legal Aid too - they will have dealt with plenty of sniffer dog cases and will know someone good to refer you to.
 
will do octagon thanks

and ayjay there was defenitely 10mg of 2c-b in each capsule, im just guessing that their scales weren't made to measure down to mg, as they looked pretty big.

Well I can take this all as a learning experience, sometimes you have to experience the bad if you want to appreciate the good. (these holidays haven't been to lucky in general)

and I'll go check out redfern legal aid, hopefully tomorrow.
thanks
 
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