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Leaving your vessel

Galaxies

Galaxies

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I believe that every humans body is controlled by their mind and the body is nothing, but an object that lets our mind interact with the outside world. A vessel. In reality our body doesn't tell us what to do or make decisions it's our mind that commands our body. I've been trying for awhile to almost leave my body/vessel and just concentrate on my mind. Instead of my mind controlling my body, I just let my body make natural movements; like breathing and scratching my head ect....

I've been able to stay in this state of nothingness just letting my mind think and not worrying about anything that's going on outside of my thoughts. It's very peaceful, but takes strenuous amount of concentration. The closest way to describe the feeling is if you could imagine that scene from men in black where the little alien in controlling that one guy's body, and if the alien just hypothetically stepped out and just let the body be natural. I feel if my brain is controlled by my spirit; or the unanimate being that makes me ME, and i Just step out of reality and enter a realm if new sorts.

The only time I really try this is before I go to bed, when my thoughts get the most extreme. It's becoming sort of a habit and I wan to continue "stepping out of reality" and see where I can go with it. If you have a really open mind I would suggest just experimenting per-se, with you mind and trying to leave your vessel.
 
Mind = Product of the brain = Part of your physical body.

The human brain is an amazing thing indeed.
 
your mind is not all one nor all the other. MOST of what we think, do and say is automated predisposition. the small part with actual free agency is some abstract thing which can't be accurately defined, but lies outside of causality, but is not just random or chaotic.
 
rickolasnice said:
Then what is the mind?
Click to expand...

Well I can give you my opinion on what I think it is. Mainstream psychology doesn't have much to say on the issue because it treats the problem with the position you implied of brain = mind. My opinion is that the mind is like a subtle dimension of its own, a field effect involving electricity or like a plasma perhaps, something that is very etheric but seems to be entangled and localized where a persons brain resides. Due its interlinking with the brain it can affect and be affected by the brain, by incoming sensory data, memories etc, but ultimately is not tied down to the brain. It can become separated from the brain and perceive directly on its own (remote viewing), can communicate with other minds (telepathy), and other effects. Obviously from a materialist reductionist standpoint it is easy to dismiss all of that, and I understand that position. Unfortunately once it happens to you personally and happens in a way that goes beyond being disproved using the reductionist perspective then you have to re-evaluate your position.
 
But what aspect of "you" is it?

Memories? Thoughts? Feelings? Your personality?

All evidence suggests that the mind is a product of the brain (not saying it IS the brain).. Saying anything other than that is pure guess work based on nothing more than superstition, a want for there to be *something* more to life and a misunderstanding of how the brain works.. which isn't hard as nobody really understands it.. but you can't just fill in the gaps with: Ah! It must be the spirit or some immaterial "thing" in another dimension that merely channels into the material world using the brain..

I'd liken that kind of thinking to creationism.. "We don't understand how this went to that so.. GOD!"

Things like remote viewing and telepathy can be rationally explained.. and the explanation works to the point you can recreate it.. without needing an immaterial "mind" hypothesis.
 
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Well if you have any evidence to the contrary then please do let someone know..

You could be up for a nobel prize :p
 
You're entitled to your view rickolasnice, and again I can understand the argument/your position. Like I said, once something happens to you and it goes beyond being explained using conventional wisdom then you have to look for new wisdom.. or just deny it of course. Saying it's all due to superstition is sophistry though because you do not know what people have personally experienced, and taking the view that every single person who follows a non-conventional wisdom is delusional is weak really. There's lots of stuff that can be explained using conventional wisdom, but there is also stuff that can not.. like telepathy and remote viewing.

You want it proven using your standard/conventional science. That isn't going to happen because it is taking place beyond physical measuring devices.

"We can't accept that there may actually be more than one dimension besides the physical one so.. SCIENCE!"
 
You just accused me of saying a whole bunch of stuff that i didn't say.

Things like telepathy and remote viewing can be measured in the material world..

So you can leave your physical body and still see? OK.. what number am i holding up behind that door.

So you can hear peoples thoughts / project your own? OK.. tell me something with your mind powers / read my thoughts.

Otherwise these things literally only exist inside your head..

And science is always changing it's stance when provided with sufficient evidence. It doesn't find evidence for something to then go.. Naaah.. Don't like that..

Please do explain to me how something can manifest itself in the physical world (remote viewing) without being measurable? You are either seeing something that is really there or it is your imagination. Sure, you can argue that the "mind" once it has left the body or the premonition of something about to happen don't exist in the material world but as soon as you say them or write them down they do.. Therefore these phenomena are very measurable.
 
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Once again, a great thread topic has been derailed from its original direction.

rickolasnice said:
Please do explain to me how something can manifest itself in the physical world (remote viewing) without being measurable?
Click to expand...

Our instruments are crude. The brain produces a field obeying the inverse square law, which as you should know, falls off in intensity very rapidly. The power's about to be shut off here, so that's all I can say for now. Stay inside your own head, or don't. If choosing the former, you're missing out!
 
Sorry I appreciate your discussion, but how do I start a new thread? Im rather new.
Thank You:)
 
rickolasnice said:
Mind = Product of the brain = Part of your physical body.

The human brain is an amazing thing indeed.
Click to expand...

Conversely, pure material reductionism does NOT serve well at all; your second statement nearly precludes the first.

Such simplistic thought does not do justice to the 'mind,' even as a simple organ =D
 
exists said:
Once again, a great thread topic has been derailed from its original direction.



Our instruments are crude. The brain produces a field obeying the inverse square law, which as you should know, falls off in intensity very rapidly. The power's about to be shut off here, so that's all I can say for now. Stay inside your own head, or don't. If choosing the former, you're missing out!
Click to expand...

You seem to have missed the part of my post immediately following that quote of mine.

Morphling said:
Conversely, pure material reductionism does NOT serve well at all; your second statement nearly precludes the first.

Such simplistic thought does not do justice to the 'mind,' even as a simple organ =D
Click to expand...

Really.. How?

Nobody said the brain was a simple organ.. Far from it.

fallenangel3 said:
Sorry I appreciate your discussion, but how do I start a new thread? Im rather new.
Thank You:)
Click to expand...

If you go to the forum such as this one: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/41-Philosophy-and-Spirituality

Then somewhere around the top left of all the threads you should see a button saying "New Thread"

<3
 
rickolasnice said:
You just accused me of saying a whole bunch of stuff that i didn't say.

Things like telepathy and remote viewing can be measured in the material world..

Please do explain to me how something can manifest itself in the physical world (remote viewing) without being measurable? You are either seeing something that is really there or it is your imagination. Sure, you can argue that the "mind" once it has left the body or the premonition of something about to happen don't exist in the material world but as soon as you say them or write them down they do.. Therefore these phenomena are very measurable.
Click to expand...

I'm not accusing you of anything mate, you're entitled to your viewpoint and again I understand why one would take that position.. I mean it's the default position (I once would have defended that position myself). Mental phenomena can't really be measured using physical devices; you can document results and conduct experiments, but there isn't anywhere for science to put it's probes. I guess you could put someone in an EEG machine and see if the brain is lighting up at all, but if the hypothesis is that the mind is somewhat distinct from the brain then where/how would one distinguish the measurements etc?
 
Galaxies said:
The only time I really try this is before I go to bed, when my thoughts get the most extreme. It's becoming sort of a habit and I wan to continue "stepping out of reality" and see where I can go with it. If you have a really open mind I would suggest just experimenting per-se, with you mind and trying to leave your vessel.
Click to expand...

I've had interesting experiences when lying down to meditate, or when lying down to go to sleep at night. I remember reading that visionary experiences tend to occur in the horizontal position rather than sitting meditation position, from two different sources. Why that's the case I don't know, but it fits my own experience definitely. The last one I had when going to sleep was allowing my body to fall asleep, but keeping the mind awake, and sort of pooling my attention inside the head. The "space" inside my head felt like it was becoming gigantic but my point of attention was incredibly small.

It really helps if you still your thoughts/mind. I distinctly remember as a small boy my mind being very clear compared to what it is now, but going to sleep one night just forcing my mind to be silent.. like I had racing thoughts and I just said "STOP!".. and it all went quiet. It was just silence and me watching it (inside my head).. I remember thinking "wow.. this is really weird!".
 
-=SS=- said:
I'm not accusing you of anything mate, you're entitled to your viewpoint and again I understand why one would take that position.. I mean it's the default position (I once would have defended that position myself). Mental phenomena can't really be measured using physical devices; you can document results and conduct experiments, but there isn't anywhere for science to put it's probes. I guess you could put someone in an EEG machine and see if the brain is lighting up at all, but if the hypothesis is that the mind is somewhat distinct from the brain then where/how would one distinguish the measurements etc?
Click to expand...

Well.. no..

What i meant was you accused me of saying "taking the view that every single person who follows a non-conventional wisdom is delusional is weak really"..

Why can't you document results and conduct experiments?

*Person x can leave their body yet still see.* OK so tell me what's behind door number 4.

And so on.

OK, you can argue it can't be controlled. But do you honestly believe that this is still beyond the reach of scientific (or as close to it as possible) measurement?

So it can't be controlled when and where a person will "remote view". So when it does happen.. write down where you went and what you saw. How is this not measurable? I'm not talking about measuring what is leaving the body or how.. Step 1. Prove that *something* is. To say that this "ability" isn't measurable is a cop out.

And before anyone else says it.. I have experienced things that some people would deem impossible within the material world..
 
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Galaxies said:
I believe that every humans body is controlled by their mind and the body is nothing, but an object that lets our mind interact with the outside world. A vessel. In reality our body doesn't tell us what to do or make decisions it's our mind that commands our body. I've been trying for awhile to almost leave my body/vessel and just concentrate on my mind. Instead of my mind controlling my body, I just let my body make natural movements; like breathing and scratching my head ect....

I've been able to stay in this state of nothingness just letting my mind think and not worrying about anything that's going on outside of my thoughts. It's very peaceful, but takes strenuous amount of concentration. The closest way to describe the feeling is if you could imagine that scene from men in black where the little alien in controlling that one guy's body, and if the alien just hypothetically stepped out and just let the body be natural. I feel if my brain is controlled by my spirit; or the unanimate being that makes me ME, and i Just step out of reality and enter a realm if new sorts.

The only time I really try this is before I go to bed, when my thoughts get the most extreme. It's becoming sort of a habit and I wan to continue "stepping out of reality" and see where I can go with it. If you have a really open mind I would suggest just experimenting per-se, with you mind and trying to leave your vessel.
Click to expand...

What you're talking about is a common experience among those who meditate: the ability to observe the mind and body as a sort of super-consciousness, to coin a term. It's a very useful state for understanding that you're not your mind, and that mind and spirit are not the same thing. It aids one in observing their mental and emotional states without identifying with them, so thoughts simply become illusory aspects which flow through you instead of being you.

In Daoist texts it is the relationship between Earth, Man, and Heaven. As a person is grounded in Earth, their field expands and through upper consciousness work they are able to have openings to the Heavenly realm (Tian 天）, the first stage of which is realizing that you are not this mind. It becomes apparent once consciousness is able to observe mind. This "you" that you think you are is a self-reaffirming axiom but it is not your true being.

In pranic work it is the opening of the higher heart combined with an open third eye and crown which permits consciousness to unify with Oneness and non-duality, making it see that the physical mind is rooted in the body while the spirit is super-imposed.

Keep up the good work :)

rickolasnice said:
Well.. no..

What i meant was you accused me of saying "taking the view that every single person who follows a non-conventional wisdom is delusional is weak really"..

Why can't you document results and conduct experiments?

*Person x can leave their body yet still see.* OK so tell me what's behind door number 4.

And so on.

OK, you can argue it can't be controlled. But do you honestly believe that this is still beyond the reach of scientific (or as close to it as possible) measurement?

So it can't be controlled when and where a person will "remote view". So when it does happen.. write down where you went and what you saw. How is this not measurable? I'm not talking about measuring what is leaving the body or how.. Step 1. Prove that *something* is. To say that this "ability" isn't measurable is a cop out.

And before anyone else says it.. I have experienced things that some people would deem impossible within the material world..
Click to expand...

Experiments have been conducted throughout the centuries outside of your modality of science. There was science before there was science.

It's not our job to meet you, you have to come meet us. If you want the experience and the understanding then you have to let go of control. The only thing stopping you is you.
 
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