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Laying RC on tabs for personal use

explodinguniverse

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
37
I want to lay a 10x10 sheet of DOC for personal use, because liquid measurements can get messy and are inconvenient and tend to involve a lot of waste due to measuring out 20mg at a time.

Q1. is it okay to use distilled water.. or do I need ethanol?
Q2. how much liquid will a 10x10 sheet absorb in ml approx? (I assume I will have an uneven lay with too little, and weak doses with too much liquid)

I have no intention of passing this off as something else, or selling it for profit. It's only to make dosing easier and more convenient for me. I can't accurately make capsules, so blotters seem to make the most sense. Any other tips or links to useful threads are very welcome.

Been a long time lurker. DOC is not a favourite material of mine, I prefer something more mentally stoning, but the visuals are interesting. On the right occasion is can be fun, but I don't find it particularly useful. Might as well get it in a more convenient dosing format anyway.
 
No replies as yet.

- So as far as I can tell I need a baking dish or glass dish. (I have both, which is better?)
- Figure out how much liquid my paper absorbs. (I can do this by soaking a sample of my paper and weighing it wet and dry. I have spare paper for this)
- Weigh out my solution, then add the DOC, agitate, and draw it up in a syringe
- Pour the water using a syringe onto the paper that is in the dish.
- Let the paper dry in a dark place on a wire rack.
- Label the dose and chemical on the back of each blotter when dry, so it doesn't get confused as another chemical by mistake (ink suggestion?)

I assume I'd be better to lay my entire stash at once to lay it more evenly, or should I give several small batches a go to get it right?
Is DOC soluble enough to get 2mg a square on standard blotting paper? I just read that DOC has a solubility of 2019mg per litre in 25 deg C water... so water is not going to work :(
 
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I would just use vodka. 95% ethanol evaporates quickly.

vodka, white rum, gin, stronger makes for quicker evap.

How to find out how much liquid 10x10 (100 blotters) will hold. cut your blotters into a square. Measure out a certain amount of liquid, place in upon a glass top, I use the tin lid of a tobacco tin. The liquid sits in a bubble/blob on top of the metal/glass. The blotters are then dropped onto the bubble/blob of liquid & absorbs it. You will have dry blotter, or liquid left over if your measurement is incorrect. It's trial & error mission, make notes for future reference. You effectively need all liquid absorbed evenly. This can certainly be done.

If you wish, you might grind some sugar or salt into you vodka bfore doing a DOC run, allow the blotts to dry & taste them, see if the sugar/salt has absorbed. Be sure to grind the DOC well too, & adjust for small losses.

This simple method works perfectly for short-run, personal use DOC blotters.
 
Would it not be simpler to lay each blotter individually using a dropper? I mean, you're only laying a few blotters, and for personal use. That's how I would do it personally.
 
Would it not be simpler to lay each blotter individually using a dropper? I mean, you're only laying a few blotters, and for personal use. That's how I would do it personally.

Seriously? 100 blotters individually dosed from a dropper? Inaccurate & very time consuming. Fine for two, 3 or 4 blotter, but for 100 my method might seem a bit more complicated but it'd save an awful lot of time compared to the individual drop-per-tab method & I would thought would also be more likely to produce tabs that are evenly dosed.

But sure, for very, very smal runs, fine. But doing 100 individually leaves too much room for error & would be laborious. Strictly in my opinion.
 
actually dipping sheet in liquid makes more error. all tabs wouldn't be laid even if you're not pro. and you wouldn't want to lay rc tabs uneven.

dropper method is always more accurate, and actually isn't that slow. i lay 500 blotters with a MICROPIPETTE(which is much more difficult task cause you need to dip the tip of pippette into the bottle for every single drop) in like about 40 mins. determine the volume of the single drop from your blotter by placing 100-1000 drops in a graduated glass container. say you dropped 1000 drops in container and it measured 5ml, so a single drop is 5ug.

use meoh(methyl alcohol) for solvent. denaturated alcohol makes blotters even more bitter, prefer pure.

regular droppers might drop so much that might be too much for a single 1/4"1/4" square, they hold about 5ug of liquid.
 
actually dipping sheet in liquid makes more error. all tabs wouldn't be laid even if you're not pro. and you wouldn't want to lay rc tabs uneven.

QFT: here the elaborate version of that...

I recently tried something exactly like this but with another substance, the solvent being 96% ethanol. I failed, even though I have extensive chemistry experience (all practical parts completed for BSc, plus of course all the home experimenting, consisting of extractions, making hash oil etc.). Although I failed, here is some theory meant to prevent you from attempting it before you have it all figured out.

You always have to measure the absorbancy of the paper by first saturating the blotter with your solvent of choice, meaning to the point where it is completely wet but is not dripping or sweating anything whatsoever. This is done by first weighing exactly how many milligrams the dry blotter weighs and subtracting that number from the wet/saturated weight. This gives you the weight of the maximum amount of solvent your paper can take.

How to proceed depends on whether you plan on measuring that calculated amount of solvent using equipment that can measure weight or volume very accurately. I have a 50 microliter syringe at my disposal myself (which by the way I used successfully to prepare melatonin blotter with an acceptable error margin).
If you go by volume you need the density of the solvent of choice. If you can't figure out how that works without me telling you, that is warning one just not to even try this. That is a general warning about this being entirely unsuited for novices.

Personally I'd say water is a poor choice of solvent. It is very cohesive meaning it clings to itself, making it relatively sticky and messy to work with. Also it doesn't evaporate quite as nicely as alcohols. If you cannot get high grade ethanol, then find isopropanol. If you are too lazy or unresourceful to find it I'd probably call warning number two.
Indeed do not use denatured alcohol which is denatured by making it bitter. Other denatured alcohol containes MEK, still I would never do that. I would also not use methanol unless I knew exactly what else was in there, and it is still very risky considering all the challenges I am setting out in this post.
I'm not sure about acetone, I've wondered about it.

If you want to dissolve a lot of compound, the volume of your solution changes. It is pretty complex to account for that. Experimenting with it can cost a lot of compound, although you can always extract your compound back again from the blotter - which is what I did, and went for the volumetric measurement instead, not trusting the method until I have it all figured out myself - and evaporate to achieve a meaningful weight (weight of drug + some exact weight of solvent, but this time adjusted). There is another warning to be prepared for that pain in the ass shit. I don't know myself how significant this volume change is. I can't really calculate it using partial molars and it is unique for every combination of compound (solute) and solvent.

The part where I went wrong: applying the solution evenly and cleanly to the paper. I added a coloring agent to track what I was doing better. I tried a normal syringe, did not work: it wetted the paper very unevenly and there was just no chance in hell that I could fix it by trying to get the paper to just suck it up. It is not incredibly absorbant like toilet paper, the application has to be very even. If you can't figure out how to overcome this, that is warning three, a huge one. I've actually heard of some professionally made blotter which gets applied in a small chamber where the solution is basically vaporized iirc. Another type used a micropipette array which I think is normally used for biochemistry.

Another challenge, and the final one, is the evaporation of the solvent. If you do this incorrectly I think convection / air currents can influence where the solvent evaporates mostly and everything in the paper might be getting blotted to those parts. I have some ideas about how to overcome that, but I'm just gonna say for now that is warning four. My whole point is that you should never try making blotter yourself if you can't be a one-man inventor / online researcher who has the capabilities of overcoming all obstacles and complexities perfectly.

If you are laying a compound that is not dangerous like melatonin (although still not ideal if you get a huge dose), I guess you can experiment like I did. But, I tried a different method that time, bringing me to the point: if you have the means to dose every hit individually without it spilling over, that could work BUT even with a microliter syringe you make small mistakes and - again - that is not something you can afford to do with a potent and potentially dangerous psychedelic.

conclusion for your case, unless you can solve it all: JUST MAKE A VOLUMETRIC SOLUTION, DON'T TRY TO BE A HERO IT IS ENTIRELY UNNECESSARY - YOU COULD VERY WELL HURT OR KILL YOURSELF. That is, unless you have extensive experience and knowledge (doesn't sound like it sorry) and know when to start over. Also I'd like to add that the substance I was laying has a much bigger therapeutic index than something like DOC, and even if I thought I was successful I would titrate my dose with each section, being very careful.
I aborted for the time being, although I am interested in the answers. I double dare you to lay it out for us before you actually 'lay' it yourself.

Honestly liquid measurement is not that messy, are you kidding? Why would it be? If it is messy that doesn't really make me feel very confident about how exactly you are arranging it. Feel free to expand on that.

Seriously? 100 blotters individually dosed from a dropper? Inaccurate & very time consuming. Fine for two, 3 or 4 blotter, but for 100 my method might seem a bit more complicated but it'd save an awful lot of time compared to the individual drop-per-tab method & I would thought would also be more likely to produce tabs that are evenly dosed.

But sure, for very, very smal runs, fine. But doing 100 individually leaves too much room for error & would be laborious. Strictly in my opinion.

Trust me, its not that time consuming AT ALL using a microliter syringe, and I did multiple rounds when I make the melatonin blotter. Yes and it was 100. But you are too right about the errors.

regular droppers might drop so much that might be too much for a single 1/4"1/4" square, they hold about 5ug of liquid.

It was indeed slightly less than 5 microliters per square: 50 / 12.

Actually if you are okay sacrificing your blotter 'sheet' intactness, you might do single drops on single squares each separated from the other... it would require a test to confirm that it is indeed as error-free as I'd imagine it to be but yeah... that could work.
 
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I can't tell you how to lay the blotters, though if you do that I'd recommend using the dropper method because soaking the whole paper will most likely result in the drug migrating toward the outer edges of the sheet as it dries. If you do make blotters that way you should probably put some kind of food color in the solution so you can see if it dries out evenly or if the edges get a lot more color.

Personally, I would just mix it with 9 times its weight of inositol (a good cutting agent) and add enough rubbing alcohol or whatever kind you want to use, it'll probably need some amount of water to dissolve it completely. You would dissolve it before adding the inositol because the inositol won't dissolve as much in alcohol but it won't matter if it's not all dissolved, as long as the DOC is. Then I would just keep mixing it around from time to time as it dries out, to keep the drug evenly distributed. After dried and thoroughly crushed and mixed, you simply weigh out, say, 25 mg and you have a 2.5 mg dose of DOC which is snortable, or usable by whatever other method you want.

If you use the dropper method, you have to see how much solvent each drop from your dropper holds. For instance get a 1 ml measuring spoon and see how many drops it takes to fill it. Then you know how much solvent you need for the 100 blotters.
 
I prepared NBOMe's once using that inositol method basically, only with mannitol instead. It is still risky, not every compound in solution may precipitate at the same time when you evaporate the solvent. Sure usually it should be mixed or make a film but if there is a recrystallisation process occuring you might be fucked. What you'd be doing (and what I did) is dissolve and evap and not being able to track what is going on on a physical chemistry level, just hope for the best. Or do you understand perfectly the relationship, solubilities and saturation points etc? Cause I don't. That is why I only did that with a batch so small that it could tolerate very big margins of error if hot pockets would exist. I would personally not recommend it for any appreciable quantity / batch.
Mixing solids might be fine if you are talking about cutting coke or speed, but with more complex potent compounds you got a pseudo pharmaceutical situation going on. In that case you might find out that mixing compounds is actually not that simple, and there is a reason why in pharmacy there are complicated procedures and expensive machines that will do it for you. Knowing that please don't be ignorant (warning once again, not insult).
 
I prepared NBOMe's once using that inositol method basically, only with mannitol instead. It is still risky, not every compound in solution may precipitate at the same time when you evaporate the solvent. Sure usually it should be mixed or make a film but if there is a recrystallisation process occuring you might be fucked. What you'd be doing (and what I did) is dissolve and evap and not being able to track what is going on on a physical chemistry level, just hope for the best. Or do you understand perfectly the relationship, solubilities and saturation points etc? Cause I don't. That is why I only did that with a batch so small that it could tolerate very big margins of error if hot pockets would exist. I would personally not recommend it for any appreciable quantity / batch.
Mixing solids might be fine if you are talking about cutting coke or speed, but with more complex potent compounds you got a pseudo pharmaceutical situation going on. In that case you might find out that mixing compounds is actually not that simple, and there is a reason why in pharmacy there are complicated procedures and expensive machines that will do it for you. Knowing that please don't be ignorant (warning once again, not insult).

Which is the reason for the final thorough crushing/mixing operation. Any crystals will be crushed into micropowder bits. Worked fine for me with 25c. I used the bottom of a glass vial as the "pestle" in the crushing, with a small glass bowl. How would you have hotspots if it's all well mixed talcum-like powder? To have enough NBOMe, to use a highly potent example, to cause a problem you would have to have a lot more than a talcum sized chunk.
 
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Theoretically, couldn't one make their solution quite dilute (say so that each drop on a blotter produces a 100-200ug dose) and in doing so cut down their chances of a blotter being too strong? Sure you might have to eat 10-20 blotters, but could this be done to reduce the danger?

On another note, would it be safer and more practical/possible to dose individual capsules with a DOC solution? The caps wouldn't be absorbing each dose, you'd simply be putting the exact liquid amount you want in each cap right?
 
No replies as yet.

- So as far as I can tell I need a baking dish or glass dish. (I have both, which is better?)
- Figure out how much liquid my paper absorbs. (I can do this by soaking a sample of my paper and weighing it wet and dry. I have spare paper for this)
- Weigh out my solution, then add the DOC, agitate, and draw it up in a syringe
- Pour the water using a syringe onto the paper that is in the dish.
- Let the paper dry in a dark place on a wire rack.
- Label the dose and chemical on the back of each blotter when dry, so it doesn't get confused as another chemical by mistake (ink suggestion?)

I assume I'd be better to lay my entire stash at once to lay it more evenly, or should I give several small batches a go to get it right?
Is DOC soluble enough to get 2mg a square on standard blotting paper? I just read that DOC has a solubility of 2019mg per litre in 25 deg C water... so water is not going to work :(

do you have a link for the solubility for DOC? Anyone have known DOC solubility for Vodka or vodka/water ?
 
On another forum one guy said at least 33 mg per ml of alcohol or water and another said 200 mg per 3 ml of alcohol.
 
Thank you for some very thoughtful replies! Some really good ideas. I'm a very cautious person and try to amass as much knowledge as I can before I try something. That's the purpose of this thread. Laying a blotter sounds like an interesting thing to learn how to do properly and I'm not going to learn if I don't try. Since it is for myself, even if I lay unevenly and have a blotter that is 10 times stronger than I had hoped for. I'm going to be in for an ass whooping, that's for sure, but I can ride that through and then dispose of the material. But the goal is to lay as evenly as possible with the least margin of error possible. So careful thought and planning is required. Dye seems a good way to help track my margin of error. I plan on doing many test runs without chemicals so when it comes to laying the final blotter after I've had some practice. Laying blotters well would be a useful skill for me to have.

"Honestly liquid measurement is not that messy, are you kidding? Why would it be? If it is messy that doesn't really make me feel very confident about how exactly you are arranging it. Feel free to expand on that."

I really like the accuracy of liquid measurements, but liquid measurements have the following problems for me. I don't like keeping liquid in the fridge or freezer near food, or where somebody might accidentally drink it. I'm never sure how much I am going to use in said amount of time. Sometimes chemicals degrade in liquid. With small doses when measuring out 20mg, there is waste on the tweezers that I cannot use. There is some margin of error with weighing only 20mg at a time, so liquid doses vary slightly between batches. The material is not particularly convenient to transport in liquid. I enjoy camping a lot, level surfaces and operating temperatures for scales are sometimes impossible to find. If I knew I had a evenly laid blotter, done at home, when sober, in a flat, clean, draft free environment, I believe dosing could be more accurate and safer.

If I want to learn this skill, I have to start somewhere. You can only get good at something with practice and doing it yourself. I have many more years of psychedelia ahead of me, so even if it takes some years to get the process down, I'll have a useful method for dosing those fiddly high potency chemicals into the future.
 
You could try some test runs using just alcohol and dye first, if you have extra blotter paper. See what works best for having an even amount of dye on the whole paper when it's dried. I have a feeling that getting the whole sheet wet with the liquid will result in more ending up toward the edges than in the middle as it dries out, but I could be wrong. Maybe if you use the minimum amount to get the sheet moist it won't go to the edges that much. I think you would definitely need to dry the sheet out flat though, rather than hanging. Like laying it on a screen.
 
I made a small batch of 1% NBOMe in lactose, trying to avoid the burden of handling and traveling with liquid solutions.
The phen was dissolved is ethanol ~85%. The volume was just enough to cover the lactose in a watch glass.
I determined the right ratio of ethanol/water by trial and error. The key is to have just enough water to dissolve the outer layer of the lactose grains (the solubility of lactose in pure ethanol is rather poor). I think this method avoids free crystals in the powder that might be sorted by density. If the concentration of ethanol is high enough the dried powder can easily be crushed to its original granularity.

I did some tests with an equivalent mass of dried royal blue ink, and the pigment looked evenly spread.
Again, this is just personal observations on small quantities.
 
200 mg per 3 ml of alcohol works vodka, ever clear works well...
... use heavy (watercolor paper) cut a few 2-1/2 inch by 2-1/2 squares this will
give you 100 1/4 inch doses @ 2mg per dose.. Use a small candy tin to hold the paper in and let it soak it up and dry...
this takes 30 min or so...

"Anyone dissolving chemicals in a solvent, make sure that none of the solvent evaporates before you drop it on blotter"


Before you do any thing you should perforate the sheet.. that's the hard part but not really...
Cheers
 
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Anyone dissolving chemicals in a solvent, make sure that none of the solvent evaporates before you drop it on blotter. This can lead to higher concentrations of the chemical, and can be extremely dangerous when handling chemicals that are active in the microgram range. Just a heads up. :)
 
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