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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Kratom taper

nsauce

nsauce

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
597
Location
Texas
Since quitting subutex on August 18th (day of my last sub dose) I felt EXTREME, debilitating fatigue for many weeks. The fatigue was so bad that there was no way I could even apply for work, so I took online classes to renew my state license so that I could go back to my trade . I had, during this time discovered Kratom, which totally eliminated my fatigue . Now im stuck on the fkn Kratom. Ive been getting the standard commercial leaf capsules, and I THINK the capsules contain maybe 1/2 gram of kratom, maybe 3/4 gram. They are not the biggest capsules available, but I have no way to weigh them to know for sure. At any rate, I am now trying to taper off the Kratom. I've been researching online and have seen some taper schedules that may work, and even advice to try to go c/t off of them and see if I even NEED to try the taper. I have been taking about 8 caps a day, spaced out throughout the day . I can tell when the effects wear off, as I feel tired and depressed, then when I take another, I feel much better again, very talkative and a little better than my normal, sober self. I will have to take UA's for work, but that won't issue with kratom, as I am almost certain that Kratom is not tested for and will not show up on UA's (i know ua questions arent allowed, but this isnt a UA question thread). I am concerned that the w/d's from Kratom may bring back my debilitating fatigue , and i REALLY need to get back to work. I'm out of money and cannot continue buying the Kratom, and really just want to be off without having to go through major w/d's .
Has anyone here tapered off Kratom ?
My idea is to simply take 1 less capsule a day until I am at zero. I realize I will likely feel fatigue and depression, I suppose I'm just looking for some words of encouragement or advice from someone who has been through this before.
Please note I have been taking standard Thai leaf caps, not the ultra enhanced indo or any extracts .
I have, since August, successfully stopped an 18 month stint of subutex at 8mg a day, and also stopped taking 4-8mg of xanax a day . I don't know why I'm having such a hard time with the Kratom.
Any advice or experiences would be appreciated !
 
It's going to be much harder to gauge your dose precisely and reduce it properly if you're using Kratom capsules someone else encapsulated, as the weight of each cap could vary, and who knows if they're mixing leaf etc? While it wouldn't be impossible to do it the way you plan, I personally would just start buying powdered leaf (much cheaper anyway) and encapsulate it yourself, or just switch to toss-n-wash or even tea.

You're also going to need to give your body time to adjust between dosage adjustments. Step down gradually if you can, give yourself 2-3 days on the new dosage before stepping down again.

I think the tea would be the best choice as you would have more direct control, and the tea process is self-limiting in a sense as you have to prepare it each time, so you might not be as tempted to slip up or anything of that nature.

The recipe I've always used is simple: Place approx 3-4grams (~1tsp) of powdered Kratom leaf in a fill-your-own tea bag. Bring two cups of water to a simmer, and add just enough lemon juice to cloud the water. Simmer the tea bags on low heat for about 20 minutes, stirring often. After 20 minutes, remove the tea bags and sweeten with honey and sugar. Allow to cool for a bit, then drink it down.

Remember, stick to the plan once you start. The hardest part about tapering is sticking to the plan. Well, that and of course jumping to absolute zero.
 
I don't have any advice about the taper I am afraid as I've not got any experience, but just wanted to say if you need some emotional support there are a lot of people currently tapering from various things in TDS, so if you'd like some support from that perspective I recommend reading their threads and starting your own if you feel like it :) good luck!
 
Ok Oxide and effie. Thanks for your response. After further research and some money spent on a package of 60 1/2 gram capsules, manufactured by a well known and very popular company, I am now confident that I can do this. I was able to stick to my taper schedule with Subutex, and that was nothing short of brutal, but I did it. I had a backslide on my benzo withdrawal, but I got that done as well. I have been taking about 4 grams a day for maybe 3 weeks now, so I'm nowhere near as bad off as some other people are/have been . My taper catarts today with 3.5 grams . I'll reduce by 1 capsule a day unless I feel TOO much of a w/d, and then I will coast for an extra day or two, but will not increase my dose. This strategy should get me where I want to be, which is off the Kratom . I just hope that my fatigue doesn't return, in which case all bets may be off until I re-strategize . Thanks alot, to both of you BL'ers, and to my girlfriend, who won't be reading this, but loaned me the money for the "cushion" I needed for a proper taper .

Oxide : I started with the capsules, so I'm going to stay with them to the end. What I purchased seems to be very consistently and professionally packaged/encapsulated so I'm certain that my dosages are as accurate as possible. Thank you !
Effie : I'll check out TDS and maybe start a taper report, as I did on another forum when I was going through the hell of subutex/benzo tapering. I'm pretty sure this won't be as brutal, though. Thanks to you again .
 
No problem! Glad you have a solid plan. A taper diary in TDS can be great for getting support and tips, we've got a few on the go currently :)

Good luck! :) <3
 
You're certainly welcome. Of course you should stick with what you're most comfortable with. Sounds like you have a good plan, though. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate. You can also check out, and ask questions in The Kratom Thread. Lots of Kratom knowledge floating around there.

Also, like effie was saying, TDS is an awesome place full of support and exceptionally friendly people. That sort of thing can make all the difference during something like this.
 
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I've just stopped krat after years of a 30/40g's a day habit, I found tapering down your krat from stronger to weaker ones the best way, for the last 6 months I've been using commercial indo and Indo gold stem, I jumped off straight from 30g's a day last Friday and today is the 1st day of feeling ok-ish.

Things I found helpful were camomile tea, ibuprofen, lopermide (very limited 10mg's tops) - I have a prescription for beta blockers they really seemed to help but may have been placibo.

Good luck, you can do it,
 
The problem with switching between strains is that kratom already contains a rather complex mix of different alkaloids, and they can vary even more between different strains.
Personally, i'd recommend what you're already doing, that is, just decreasing your dosage over a period of time.
 
I've been taking only standard Thai crushed leaf capsules. No extracts or enhanced anything. From my research, I see that this is the easiest form to get off of. I was really surprised at the effects of Kratom, as an experienced heroin and methadone user for a decade (the 90's), I had seen the stuff, but being legally and easily available, I wrote it off as the stuff high school kids are doing, like salvia and the bath soap or what the hell else they are doing. When I grew so horribly frustrated with my post-subutex fatigue i got a package of 12 capsules, took them all and while it didn't blow my mind by any means, I most certainly did feel the effects and was surprised. My fatigue was gone. Mission accomplished. I'm sure this stuff will be banned soon enough . Anything that helps with withdrawals from pharmaceuticals that isn't CONTROLLED by big pharma won't last long.

Juicy Lucy - thats a FAR higher dose than I am on, may I ask about your withdrawal symptoms ? Are they pretty much like a hydrocodone withdrawal or what ?
 
From what my vendor has told me Com indo is 50% weaker than Red Vein Thai. IG stem is stimulating which helped me with fatigue - I hear what your saying about the different alkaloids nAON.

Hey nsauce, I've not had any experience with hydrocodone, sorry. I felt incapable of doin anything for the 1st 2 days, hot/cold sweats, strange rushing feeling in my head like the start of a panic attack that suddenly stopped and started, pains in the back of my calves and thighs, couldnt watch TV or listen to music the noise pissed me off to much. Complete inability to sleep or relax, no energy, couldnt eat or be around people at all.

After 2 days I felt more normal, the spaces between feeling awful and ok got better, gradually the feel better started to take over.
 
Yeah that sounds pretty typical . Thanks .Thai is the only type locally available, I don't like to buy things off the internet .
 
Get yourself some powdered bali from a reputable internet vendor (there are tons), learn to toss and wash, and never look back. Kratom withdrawal, while very real, is much milder than that of opiates. I currently use kratom almost every day, usually upwards of 10g of powdered leaf, T&W'd, once in the morning and again at either lunch or after work. It is absolutely AMAZING for productivity, motivation and anxiety relief. I also feel very in control, I don't feel like I need kratom and I feel like if I had to stop, I could. However, there simply aren't any good reasons on the table, other than tolerance, for me to stop using it. I've tapered down from using 10g in one sitting down to about 8g, and continuing to reduce dosage every day, because I simply want to use less of it.

Kratom withdrawal, at worst, has been a bit of fatigue, low motivation, psychological cravings, but that's honestly about it. It also will only last for a day or two and then subside. It really is a very friendly, gentle, and beneficial plant, on par in safety and effectiveness with cannabis. It even has health BENEFITS, like antioxidants, pro-biotics, protein, and it also does wonders for a person's overall state of mind which indirectly promotes good health. Lastly, what's a better drug to be addicted to than one that is nearly harmless on your body, and has a high that makes you productive, friendly and motivated? Oh and did I mention legal? :)

You're gonna be fine, my friend.
 
^I would not compare the safety of Kratom to that of cannabis.

Kratom contains alkaloids that at higher doses have a mu-agonst "crossover" effect. This of course makes it just as addictive as any other mu-agonist. While Kratom can have some positive effects, it also has risks. It's not some cure-all miracle leaf with zero health risks.

Kratom withdrawal, while certainly much more forgiving than most full-agonist withdrawals, is still extremely similar (if not perfectly identical) to opiate withdrawals. The withdrawals (at least for me) have lasted just about 3 days, but usually not more than 4. All the classic symptoms are there, along with a double dose of crippling depression and seemingly endless anxiety.

Kratom also has some rumored liver risks, I don't know quite as much about that to give any input on it, but a google search will turn up more info.

I'm glad to hear you've been able to avoid most of these issues, Seattle_Stranger, but your above post is slightly misleading to say the least.
 
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Well, I don't have access to bali, I have already purchased all I can, 60 1/2 gram capsules of powdered Thai and will be using this for my taper, for better or for worse. I'll just taper slow and low like i've done before with opiates. I just wasn't sure since the alkaloids are different what to exactly expect from the withdrawals but since I made it through the blistering hell of Subutex withdrawals, I don't imagine I'll have too much trouble with this. My biggest concern is the possible return of my fatigue, but I am aware that nobody here, including myself, can predict that. I appreciate everyone's input, and also realize everyone w/d's differently from identical doses of identical drugs.
 
Hmmm.... Very Strange, I could've sworn that I posted on this Topic the other day.. yet I do not see my post
I don't believe that anyone would be Foolish enough to attempt to silence me in any way by deleting something I said.. or maybe they are and shall reap my wrath if I am right and Actually did post.. dunno.. either way yo Nsauce if you want to know a bit more about Kratom hit me up on ye ol Pm..
Peace
 
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