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Opioids Kratom Megathread V.6

Tieeurrrop said:
I have been experiencing tolerance issues with my favorite red strains lately. Even after a 1 month break it barely was reduced when I took it again.

I am out for now and wanted to re-up and was wondering if I should try some other strains or if that is just bullshit all the talk of switching strains 'eliminated my tolerance issues' I read online.

The issue for me is I am very sensitive to stimulating strains (in that they give bad anxiety and discomfort) and it took a long time to find a couple of red strains I can get on with so I wonder if it is worth even bothering with other strains since if they turn out too stimmy it will just be a waste.

I figure the only reason that people might say switching works for them is that it might be the other strains had more stimulant type actives which weren't as susceptible to tolerance as the opioid ones, and since I only like the sedative effect, and thus opioid effects, which cause tolerance it would probably be a waste of kratom and time to try other ones out? Ie the ones I like are going to be most susceptible to tolerance since they have more opioid alkaloids.

Opioid agonism will cause tolerance no matter the strain won't it and the other actives I hate anyway since they give me a tight knot in my chest and end up having to throw it out wasting money and being left with less kratom.
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Afaik someone on this forum did an analysis of different strains and there's not much difference in the active ingredients. The stimulation/sedation most likely comes from different dosages and the placebo effect and switching strains shouldn't help much/at all with tolerance
 
kleinerkiffer said:
Afaik someone on this forum did an analysis of different strains and there's not much difference in the active ingredients. The stimulation/sedation most likely comes from different dosages and the placebo effect and switching strains shouldn't help much/at all with tolerance
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Yeah that?s what I suspected. It?s all just a sheer marketing ploy.

Man I have not done well sticking to my taper plan this past week. Gonna have some mild withdrawals I bet. At least I?ve come clean with my wife about using again. Surprisingly she?s not too pissed.
Update; 36 hours from my last dose and my nose is running. I?m just trying to prolong the period until my next dose. Hopefully my insomnia isn?t too bad. I?ve got a quarter kilo left and I?m waiting for the next dose. Need some time to reset my tolerance
Update pt2, 48 hours since my last dose. Sleep was very rough last night... restless legs and insomnia. Gonna try and make it another day without dosing
 
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The Ohio board of pharmacy held a meeting today on the proposed ban of kratom. They chose to defer until the next meeting in March until more questions can be answered. We saw just how uninformed they were not long ago in the lead up to the proposed scheduling so they have a lot of work to do. Regardless, it's a step in the right direction.
 
I know the 'debunking' of the strain theory but -- I was a vendor for several years. I consumed a LOT of kratom, I was using it for chronic pain issues. Now, I can tell you 100% I could tell the difference at least between the green and the red. If they truly are all the same, they must just cut some of it w matcha or another caffeine source, because the green JACKS me. I cannot tolerate caffeine or other stimulants at all and I could not take the green at all, and could tell the difference very quickly. In fact I had several "disasters" taking 6 - 8g of green accidentally and having a really, really bad time of things. Shaking, near vomiting, classic overstimulation symptoms (I would take equivalent doses of red multiple times a day). Just my experience.
 
cdin said:
I know the 'debunking' of the strain theory but -- I was a vendor for several years. I consumed a LOT of kratom, I was using it for chronic pain issues. Now, I can tell you 100% I could tell the difference at least between the green and the red. If they truly are all the same, they must just cut some of it w matcha or another caffeine source, because the green JACKS me. I cannot tolerate caffeine or other stimulants at all and I could not take the green at all, and could tell the difference very quickly. In fact I had several "disasters" taking 6 - 8g of green accidentally and having a really, really bad time of things. Shaking, near vomiting, classic overstimulation symptoms (I would take equivalent doses of red multiple times a day). Just my experience.
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That's interesting

Kratom has both opioid- and psychostimulant-like subjective effects . The phytochemicals isolated from various parts of the kratom tree include over 40 structurally related alkaloids of which mitragynine is the most important with up to 66% purity in the extract of leaves from Thailand, and only 12% in kratom leaves from Malaysia.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657101/
So there might be some truth to it after all
 
There is likely some difference between certain strains due to the different alkaloid profiles, like what KK just linked/quoted. Makes sense that kratom with different genetics grown in a different region could have slightly different effects profile.

But the entire market - from farmers to distributors down to vendors is a huge clusterfuck when it comes to the various strains they claim to offer. I highly highly doubt there is enough honesty and transparency between when the stuff is picked to when it gets to you that you can believe most of the marketing associated with the kratom you purchased. In a lot of cases things like color, strain, origin, etc are probably nonsense by the time it reaches you.
 
I agree that there isn't much difference between the strains but the difference between a red and white leaf are like night and day. 7 grams of Red Bali knocks me out at night while the same amount of White Maeng Da makes impossible to sleep and gives me the dreaded "wobbles". I was under the impression that red leaf contained higher ratios of 7-Hydroxymitragynine while white has more mitragynine. From years of taking only red leaf I can definitely say that an expensive white leaf won't completely take out me out of withdrawal, compared to even the cheapest red leaf doing the job. I assume this is because my body is used to the higher amounts of 7-hm.
 
4meSM said:
So I've been a daily kratom user for 2+ years (up to 15-20g/day). I recently did a bunch of tests, I'm going to share the most relevant ones:

liver enzymes:
Alanine transaminase (ALT): 34 UI/L
Aspartate transaminase (AST): 19 UI/L
Alkaline phosphatase (ALP): 50 UI/L
Gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase (GGT): 39 UI/L
->They are all within the normal range.

Total Bilirubin: 1.5 mg/dL
Direct: 0.5mg/dL
Indirect: 1.0mg/dL

->This one is a bit high but it might be unrelated. Also there's no Bilirubin in my urine. (I had a small dose of MDMA and drank alcohol 2-3 days before the test).

Everything else (blood work, cholesterol, lipids, urine, thyroid...) was very good.
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I

I get a lot of blood tests as I do have liver issues. Since I began using it after getting off Oxy and Vicodin and then ten years of Suboxone, I watch my tests closely, and since my hepatitis C was cured with the new treatment, my liver values have been nothing but smooth. Everything is in the normal range. That said, I still don't really know how safe it is for someone with a bad liver. Please don't take my experience as saying that it will be like that for you. I take about 4-5 capsules or the equivalent in powder mixed in one of those weight-loss shakes twice a day. I'm trying to taper off, and have heard the easiest way it to take less at a time but more often if needed. Thoughts?
 
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Hey, any advice would be appreciated. Have to quit kratom for a long time for various reasons, and I don't know what to expect. I've only been through harder op withdrawals but how bad has it been for people in comparison? And is it way shorter? I've never been through an actual kratom wd.
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Hey, any advice would be appreciated. Have to quit kratom for a long time for various reasons, and I don't know what to expect. I've only been through harder op withdrawals but how bad has it been for people in comparison? And is it way shorter? I've never been through an actual kratom wd.
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Yes it?s shorter and not quite as unpleasant.id say it?s on par with codiene wds. If heroin or oxy comes in a full 10/10, kratom is like 4-5/10
Don?t get me wrong, you?ll still experience the classic wild symptoms i.e funny nose, watery eyes, restless legs, insomnia, and hot/cold regulation issues. But it lasts a week tops. I usually feel full wds about the 36 hours after the last dose and begin to feel more normal around day 4- baseline by day 7
 
DoctorMolecule said:
Yes it?s shorter and not quite as unpleasant.id say it?s on par with codiene wds. If heroin or oxy comes in a full 10/10, kratom is like 4-5/10
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It varies person to person but I'd think what doctormolecule said is fairly accurate for a lot of people.

One thing though - if you switch addictions from opiates/opioids to kratom and then quit kratom, then the withdrawals are, for some people, still pretty bad. Unless you taper the kratom down low before quitting.

Edit: It probably goes without saying but the withdrawals will be dependent on the usual: length of time using, dosage, dosage frequency, previous opioid/opiate addictions, etc.

If you're only taking 3g once a day then you probably won't notice any withdrawal however if you're taking 15g five times a day then it'll probably suck
 
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Mr.Deeds said:
So the IV kratom is in fact a real phenomenon. Truly sad stuff right here.

http://www.scientificoajournals.org/jtp.003.php
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Fortunately such instances seem to be exceedingly rare. The American Kratom Association estimates that there are roughly 5 million kratom users in the US. There are always going to be a few outliers that do crazy things like IV it but for the most part this is almost completely unheard of (besides any 'fake news', irrational fear mongering, sensationalism, etc)
 
MDPV_Psychosis said:
Fortunately such instances seem to be exceedingly rare. The American Kratom Association estimates that there are roughly 5 million kratom users in the US. There are always going to be a few outliers that do crazy things like IV it but for the most part this is almost completely unheard of (besides any 'fake news', irrational fear mongering, sensationalism, etc)
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A while back there was some speculation that this couldn't possibly be happening after it was reported in a media outlet in Ohio I believe. I havent found any cases relating to which region this occurred in, but this case report was published in 2017 so that says a lot about how desperate the media is to sensationalize the abuse of kratom.
 
Not sure if this was mentioned or if I'm in the right place, but I used kratom to get of opiates for a while. It's been about a month since my last pill. I did this to help lower my tolerance and take care of WDs. During this time I used kratom regularly cause I liked it. Today I came across some hydrocodone and I took about 15 mg. That was a small dose but I felt nothing. Then I took 30 mg and still nothing. Question is does kratom keep opiate tolerance high?
 
dabeachbum17 said:
Not sure if this was mentioned or if I'm in the right place, but I used kratom to get of opiates for a while. It's been about a month since my last pill. I did this to help lower my tolerance and take care of WDs. During this time I used kratom regularly cause I liked it. Today I came across some hydrocodone and I took about 15 mg. That was a small dose but I felt nothing. Then I took 30 mg and still nothing. Question is does kratom keep opiate tolerance high?
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Yes it will keep your tolerance up. It still acts on mu opioid receptors in a fashion akin to classical opioids. That is why there is also a cross-tolerance between kratom and opioids. Essentially, you have switched which opioid you are using and slightly lowered it. The only thing to reset tolerance to baseline is to abstain for a long enough time.
 
How many of you guys have had their kratom sent to a lab for an identification and alkaloid spectrum analysis? I am thinking about doing this, I got a new vendor and this stuff is particularly potent compared to the most, if not all, the vendors I have purchased from before.

If anybody has sent it in, how many have found it to be adulterated with another compound added to increase potency?
 
Mr.Deeds said:
How many of you guys have had their kratom sent to a lab for an identification and alkaloid spectrum analysis? I am thinking about doing this, I got a new vendor and this stuff is particularly potent compared to the most, if not all, the vendors I have purchased from before.

If anybody has sent it in, how many have found it to be adulterated with another compound added to increase potency?
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Hopefully kratom that is adultered with other active substances is an extremely rare thing. Only time I've heard of such practices is with kratom 'extracts', never with plain powder but I suppose it's possible. More than likely you just got lucky and got a better than average batch?

I think what's probably more common is occasionally kratom being bulked up with non active filler ie extra sticks, branches or leaves from random plants, etc is being added before grinding. This happening wouldn't suprise me with how much demand has increased over the years especially with all the shipping problems as of late.

If you do get your kratom tested then I'd be interested to hear the results.
 
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