Opioids Kratom Mega Thread V.4

[Hammilton]

If you're using that infrequently you probably wouldn't kill your tolerance too badly, it'll go down after a bit. My problem was that I relied on plain leaf to avoid withdrawal, and after using UEI for a couple days plain leaf could no longer keep the withdrawals at bay, making for a very uncomfortable couple days.

UEI really was special, though. There's not an opioid I've used prior to or since that compares. Mind you, at the same time I was using UEI I was also using oxy 30s, and I would pick the UEI over the 30s any day. While I enjoyed the process of snorting two 30s and feeling high 5 minutes later more than eating that gross powder, the euphoria from UEI was incomparable. They were both a bit speedy, too.

I quite liked their oxindole extract, too. On a cost basis, UEI was definitely the way to go, but for an occasional fun, or to blend a bit with the UEI, it was quite enjoyable. It was very, very speedy, though. I think it might be a good addition to a sedating opioid with little euphoria like methadone or perhaps morphine.

 

[KilNStitch]

Accidental overdose

Without judgment, I need to ask for advice but don't know who to go to. My boyfriend and I experimented with heroin and recently he got me to shoot it up. Immediately after i felt good, but within minutes I blacked out and had a seizure. I'm aware this can happen with overdosing but could angone explain to me the physiology of why this happens?
Also should I see a doctor, it's been a few weeks since this incident but I want to know if there will be any permanent damage?
And I know it was a irresponsible decision but Im looking for answers and not scrutiny. Also this may not be the right spot for me to post pleasr help

 

[Mycophile]

If you're using that infrequently you probably wouldn't kill your tolerance too badly, it'll go down after a bit. My problem was that I relied on plain leaf to avoid withdrawal, and after using UEI for a couple days plain leaf could no longer keep the withdrawals at bay, making for a very uncomfortable couple days.

UEI really was special, though. There's not an opioid I've used prior to or since that compares. Mind you, at the same time I was using UEI I was also using oxy 30s, and I would pick the UEI over the 30s any day. While I enjoyed the process of snorting two 30s and feeling high 5 minutes later more than eating that gross powder, the euphoria from UEI was incomparable. They were both a bit speedy, too.

I quite liked their oxindole extract, too. On a cost basis, UEI was definitely the way to go, but for an occasional fun, or to blend a bit with the UEI, it was quite enjoyable. It was very, very speedy, though. I think it might be a good addition to a sedating opioid with little euphoria like methadone or perhaps morphine.

Thanks.

So, if I never take Kratom more than 3 days a week max, and I were to use extracts instead of plain leaf, do you think I would be able to avoid addiction?

Cause that's the main thing.

I never dose more than two days in a row either, and so far I've only dosed 2 days a week, but 3 in a 7 day period is the most I'd ever consider.

You make the extracts sound really nice so I want to try them but the bottom line is avoiding addiction for me.

Perhaps if extract is that much stronger then I should maybe keep it to once a week if I use one vs 2-3 times with plain leaf?

Also, what is the "oxindole extract"?

Just another type of Kratom?

And do you feel that dairy foods lesson the effect of Kratom like one poster said?

 

[Mycophile]

Without judgment, I need to ask for advice but don't know who to go to. My boyfriend and I experimented with heroin and recently he got me to shoot it up. Immediately after i felt good, but within minutes I blacked out and had a seizure. I'm aware this can happen with overdosing but could angone explain to me the physiology of why this happens?
Also should I see a doctor, it's been a few weeks since this incident but I want to know if there will be any permanent damage?
And I know it was a irresponsible decision but Im looking for answers and not scrutiny. Also this may not be the right spot for me to post pleasr help

Sorry to hear about this.

However, this is a Kratom thread so it's the wrong place to post about Heroin.

I'd recommend starting another thread on this forum if you want answers on this problem.

 

[blazequietly]

I just got a free sample from a company providing them though the mail. I got a bag of "Green Maylay" and "red vein" I dont have a scale but I dumped out what I estimated to be about 2 grams of the green maylay (that is if it weighs the same as h by the look of it) and I put it in capsules and swallowed them. Its been about a half an hour and I feel alright. Kind of like I took a small dose of opiates. This is my first time experimenting with it. I wish I had a scale to know how much they actually sent me. I heard a tea spoon is about 2.5 grams.

 

[Doldrugs]

I find empty stomach to actually be detrimental to a degree. Eating a bit before and after makes it come on faster and stronger in my experience.

I'd stay away from extracts. They don't feel as clean, and they jack your tolerance up hard in a way I don't see with plain leaf.

 

[MGLA]

Hey guys,got my 100g of Bali today, took two heaped tea spoons and just felt edgy and a bit sick lol, redosed a hour later because i wanted to feel sedated but just more sick so went to sleep, shall i dose lower Very disappointed

 

[sekio]

You probably took too much.

 

[Hammilton]

Yeah, two heaping tea spoons is too much for a first timer. I would suggest getting yourself a scale. If you're using the Toss-N-Wash method of ingestion, which I highly suggest, I would start with between 2.5 and 4.5g, consumed on an empty stomach.

It'll take you a while to determine your optimal dose. For me it's 6.5g, that might work for you too, but start lower at first for sure. I've found that my dose never really went up, I just dosed more frequently.

The first time I used Kratom it was as a tea made from whole leaves, and I used a whole ounce of leaves. I was actually very high from it, nodded off in the good way, not the I'm sick and uncomfortable way. I would not advise that sort of first time dosing, definitely not with powdered leaf.

Consuming Kratom as a tea does require you to use a higher dose, but it hits quicker and harder. I find that the experience is qualitatively very different as a tea, more likely to produce euphoria, but it feels less opiate- ish. Just my two cents.

 

[Hammilton]

Thanks.

So, if I never take Kratom more than 3 days a week max, and I were to use extracts instead of plain leaf, do you think I would be able to avoid addiction?

Cause that's the main thing.

I never dose more than two days in a row either, and so far I've only dosed 2 days a week, but 3 in a 7 day period is the most I'd ever consider.

You make the extracts sound really nice so I want to try them but the bottom line is avoiding addiction for me.

Perhaps if extract is that much stronger then I should maybe keep it to once a week if I use one vs 2-3 times with plain leaf?

Also, what is the "oxindole extract"?

Just another type of Kratom?

And do you feel that dairy foods lesson the effect of Kratom like one poster said?

You can certainly use extracts without becoming addicted. Avoiding addiction isn't about limiting your use to a couple times a week, as I once thought. Now I realize that to avoid addiction you need to draw a line in the sand and say no more experimentation with drugs after this date, and when that date comes you gotta stick to it. Sure, you can continue to use non-addictive drugs after that date, and take any as prescribed (and only as prescribed), so smoking weed or taking 1 vicodin three times daily to ease pain, for whatever limited period your doc sees fit, but no more recreational use of addictive drugs. Using two days a week already has you started down the road of addiction. Your brain has already begun making changes that increase the likelihood of developing an addiction, and these changes hang around, the well is already primed, so to speak, for a long time, likely forever. You'd probably have cravings if you stopped now, even.

You're treating the idea of avoiding addiction as if it were the same as avoiding physical dependence, but they're very different. Yeah, that schedule will prevent physical dependence for a very long time, maybe forever, were it actually maintained.

Your brain will start making changes that make it harder and harder for you to stick to such a routine, though, and eventually you'll give in and start using more frequently, and slowly your life will come to revolve around doing drugs and obtaining drugs. It doesn't matter how strong your will power is, or rather, how strong you think it is, because this is a process that destroys your will power.

Do I think you can use kratom extracts and avoid addiction? Yeah, absolutely, and I think they're worth trying. Buy yourself three 6 gram packets of Ultra Enhanced Indo from the supplier who invented it, and one 3 gram packet of so-called oxindole extract.

You'll want to start with half a gram of UEI to start, maybe go to a full gram for your second or third trial.

The same for the oxindole extract, but I'd be more careful about increasing the dose. Whatever it contains is a strong stimulant and its easy to end up unpleasantly stimulated.

Then, after they have arrived, set a date for quitting, or just set your last dose as your literal last dose. Once it's gone, be done with it, otherwise you're eventually going to make it far enough down this path that you can't get back and you'll be somewhere you don't really want to be.

What is oxindole extract? Who knows. None of these extracts are really extracts. They're extracted, chemicals inside are isolated and then reactions are performed to produce a new compound that is not present in the natural leaf. Both UEI and Oxindole are semi-synthetic derivatives of kratom alkaloids. They are NOT all natural and should be compared to oxycodone or heroin, in terms of effects, not kratom. I have some thoughts on what semi-synthetic is in UEI, but I'm not positive, still waiting on someone to actually do the analysis. The oxindole product I'm less sure about, but I suspect that the semi-synthetic mitragynine analogue in it is a stronger delta opioid receptor agonist and not a dopamine-targetting compound (experiencing it does make one think of amphetamines, but there are also major differences, like the way it still blocks withdrawal).

Dairy? No idea, always consumed kratom in an empty stomach to maximize the limited effect it produces.

 

[Mycophile]

You can certainly use extracts without becoming addicted. Avoiding addiction isn't about limiting your use to a couple times a week, as I once thought. Now I realize that to avoid addiction you need to draw a line in the sand and say no more experimentation with drugs after this date, and when that date comes you gotta stick to it. Sure, you can continue to use non-addictive drugs after that date, and take any as prescribed (and only as prescribed), so smoking weed or taking 1 vicodin three times daily to ease pain, for whatever limited period your doc sees fit, but no more recreational use of addictive drugs. Using two days a week already has you started down the road of addiction. Your brain has already begun making changes that increase the likelihood of developing an addiction, and these changes hang around, the well is already primed, so to speak, for a long time, likely forever. You'd probably have cravings if you stopped now, even.

You're treating the idea of avoiding addiction as if it were the same as avoiding physical dependence, but they're very different. Yeah, that schedule will prevent physical dependence for a very long time, maybe forever, were it actually maintained.

Your brain will start making changes that make it harder and harder for you to stick to such a routine, though, and eventually you'll give in and start using more frequently, and slowly your life will come to revolve around doing drugs and obtaining drugs. It doesn't matter how strong your will power is, or rather, how strong you think it is, because this is a process that destroys your will power.

Do I think you can use kratom extracts and avoid addiction? Yeah, absolutely, and I think they're worth trying. Buy yourself three 6 gram packets of Ultra Enhanced Indo from the supplier who invented it, and one 3 gram packet of so-called oxindole extract.

You'll want to start with half a gram of UEI to start, maybe go to a full gram for your second or third trial.

The same for the oxindole extract, but I'd be more careful about increasing the dose. Whatever it contains is a strong stimulant and its easy to end up unpleasantly stimulated.

Then, after they have arrived, set a date for quitting, or just set your last dose as your literal last dose. Once it's gone, be done with it, otherwise you're eventually going to make it far enough down this path that you can't get back and you'll be somewhere you don't really want to be.

What is oxindole extract? Who knows. None of these extracts are really extracts. They're extracted, chemicals inside are isolated and then reactions are performed to produce a new compound that is not present in the natural leaf. Both UEI and Oxindole are semi-synthetic derivatives of kratom alkaloids. They are NOT all natural and should be compared to oxycodone or heroin, in terms of effects, not kratom. I have some thoughts on what semi-synthetic is in UEI, but I'm not positive, still waiting on someone to actually do the analysis. The oxindole product I'm less sure about, but I suspect that the semi-synthetic mitragynine analogue in it is a stronger delta opioid receptor agonist and not a dopamine-targetting compound (experiencing it does make one think of amphetamines, but there are also major differences, like the way it still blocks withdrawal).

Dairy? No idea, always consumed kratom in an empty stomach to maximize the limited effect it produces.

Thanks for responding, however, I am fairly confident that I can avoid physical dependence doing it only twice a week and that is what I am concerned with more than any purely mental addiction and I don't see why this should be possible and doubt that there aren't others who have been able to do it. I mean, as long as no physical dependence occurs I don't really see wherein the huge problem lies.

It seems to me that if physical cravings are not holding one in place it simply comes down to battling compulsion which IMO is within every person's capacity to do.

I also get what you are saying about "drawing a line in the sand" but don't see why that line be that "after such and such date I will take a 6 month break" or however long, without needing to make it FOREVER or why the line can't be "I won't take it more than twice a week" which is the one I've drawn for myself.

I see no reason why twice a week cannot be maintained for life, especially seeing as I always plan on taking long breaks of a month or more, I don't see this as an impossible goal.

I mean, I guess I see it as being pretty similar to alcohol: Am I "mentally addicted" to alcohol in that I have cravings for it sometimes when I don't do it?

Absolutely.

But I'm not physically dependent and never have been.

And seeing as I'm not all that concerned about it why is Kratom a bigger deal?

I guess maybe because Kratom is more physically addictive, but by the same token it's nowhere near as dangerous a substance as alcohol so it's kind of a "pick your poison" type of deal.

So if I'm not worried about my alcohol consumption I'm not sure I should be worried about something much less physically damaging like Kratom.

 

[Hammilton]

How old are you? I've met a lot of people who thought like you (I was one) and ultimately they all became addicts.

Opiates, even kratom, are not in the same league as alcohol, they can't be compared.

You don't even understand what addiction is yet if you can make a statement like 'battling compulsion is within everyone's capability.' Addiction is the breaking down of that ability. Keep going the way you are, you'll eventually give in on the two day a week thing and take it three, rationalize that it's not that big of a deal.

Actually physical dependence isn't the big problem. It's a minor problem compared to the psychological battle of addiction, at least with opioids and most other drugs, GABAergics like the benzos and barbs have a serious physical dependence associated with them, but it takes a long time to get to that point.

I've kicked the physical dependence a number of times- from kratom, bupe, methadone, oxy/dope, and I've never found it to horrible. It's the psychological aspect of withdrawal that is the problem. Anyone can handle some headaches, the flu and a little insomnia.

 

[Mycophile]

How old are you? I've met a lot of people who thought like you (I was one) and ultimately they all became addicts.

Opiates, even kratom, are not in the same league as alcohol, they can't be compared.

You don't even understand what addiction is yet if you can make a statement like 'battling compulsion is within everyone's capability.' Addiction is the breaking down of that ability. Keep going the way you are, you'll eventually give in on the two day a week thing and take it three, rationalize that it's not that big of a deal.

Actually physical dependence isn't the big problem. It's a minor problem compared to the psychological battle of addiction, at least with opioids and most other drugs, GABAergics like the benzos and barbs have a serious physical dependence associated with them, but it takes a long time to get to that point.

I've kicked the physical dependence a number of times- from kratom, bupe, methadone, oxy/dope, and I've never found it to horrible. It's the psychological aspect of withdrawal that is the problem. Anyone can handle some headaches, the flu and a little insomnia.

I'm 35 but I've never been into addictive drugs.

I've done the usual, smoke weed, Oxy, shrooms, LSD, drink, dex, coke, etc.

I'm finding it pretty unsettling though that you consider it a forgone conclusion that no one can EVER do some Kratom twice a week and then simply go a few months without, then start up again, then stop, whatever, without ever becoming a complete slave to it, unless they draw a line in the sand that they will NEVER EVER do it again beyond X--point.

I only experimented with Kratom for the first time a year ago, and before doing so I was VERY afraid that I'd "fall prey to the devil of addiction but various nice posters on here made me believe that that was probably not going to happen so long as I didn't go nuts with it and take it more than a couple days a week.

So I took MONTHS to talk to people before I tried it first, hemming and hawing and wondering if I DARE attempt to take some Kratom...and in the end, I found that I was making a big deal over nothing.

I don't feel that Kratom is the INSANELY ADDICTIVE demonic opioid that I had made it out to be.

After experimenting for the past year I have found that taking it a couple times a week without forming physical dependence is not only entirely possible, but not even that difficult and I have already taken a 5 month break from it when I was low on cash.


I can totally see where you are coming from IF it was something REALLY REALLY good like Oxy...which I have also experimented with, but I don't see a couple tea spoons of plain leaf Kratom as being like that because the high pales in comparison making it less alluring.


I can say with all honesty that I don't really even think that Kratom is THAT good which, along with how easy it is to take a couple times a week, is what makes me not so worried about it, and also which makes me second guess ever trying Extracts because though it's tempting to try something as good as oxy...the greater the pleasure the greater the risk...

But I don't see plain leaf Kratom as being all that threatening really.

Keep in mind that it seems to me from what I've read that most people on here are using Kratom to get off harder opiates, while the only time I've ever taken any harder opiates like Oxy is when prescribed it by a doctor and I plan on never touching it again unless prescribed it again...nor would I EVER touch Heroin, Fentanyl, Suboxone, or anything like that with a 10 foot pole...just Kratom, and I just don't see myself ending up in a ditch selling my body for Heroin in 10 years because I experimented with it a bit.

And for the sake of argument...what if I DID once do a little too much and had to go through some minor flu like symptoms...it wouldn't kill me and I'd be fine and either make the choice not to do it again, or else continue.

I was both mentally and physically dependent on Klonopin for 11 Years, which is more threatening a habit than Kratom...and always thought it would be impossible to get off of...but here I am off of it for 6 months now.

So ultimately, my fear of having to deal with withdrawal (which is pretty strong now from the stories I read), and also the fact that I don't even think Kratom is this INCREDIBLE high like Oxy...just a nice one that I enjoy...are what will keep me from physical dependence and I don't actually believe that I like it enough to become as psychologically addicted as you suggest I could become.


I'm also sure I'll eventually get to the point where I'll quit permanently and never touch it again but I just don't think I'm at the point right now that I am ready to set a date for it...nor do I think there's a need.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Hi - coming in on the end of thread when saw people posting about dosage and kratom expectations etc. and got a few queries!


I just discovered kratom, and looking forward to exploring something new.
This thread has made me a lot more informed, so thanks all for that

There is lot conflicting info on net re how many powder g's in a teaspoon. I have a proper measure teaspoon so went with between 2 and 3 grams per teaspoon in end, as was doing my head in!
My first go so far was with bali kratom (red leaf). It looks and smells like the old henna I disastrously dyed my hair with once, lol, and if I'd tasted the henna reckon it would be about the same! Yukky yuk.
Ate it mixed in live yoghurt, tho for me it just prolonged the 'tasting experience' taking quite a few teaspoons to get it all down, and still yuk.
Think may go the smoothie route next....

Alternatively, are the capsules just as effective as the powder? What's different with the capsule experience, cos if I'm gonna be experimenting with few types would be good to find an alternative to yukking!

Also, has anyone got any tips on what leaves good to mix?

What's peoples views on redosing. eg how long after 1st dose should you redose (some sites say 4 hrs!) and some say redosing not as effective as first time, and not worth it.
Its just first time I had 2 tsps (proper measuring spoon, so presumed 4-6g, going on 1 tsp = 2-3g). It helped with WD's so that being the main objective was good, but not what I thought/hoped it would be, and wore off after coupla hours.
Had 3 teaspoons today (6-9g) and then another 3 tsps hour later, and still not where I would like to be, after hearing reports of euphoria and opiate like feelings etc.
Maybe I need to take more as seems to be quite subjective?
Would also help if I knew exactly how many grams of powder there is a 'proper measure' teaspoon, as so many differing opinions.

So yes, all a bit confusing atm, especially with all the super/premium/15x etc and house blends as well.

Hopefully I will find my way thru the leaves soon

 

[when I dream]

You need a scale for accurate measument, but if it helps I just weighed out a couple teaspoons with my kratom (Bali) and they averaged about 1.70 grams each. Different grain sizes can affect how much volume kratom takes up by weight though; the kratom I used is a very fine powder but I've seen it look like sand.

 

[Crazyfrog]

Anyone want to buy the 140gm of kratom i can't take? Its still sealed. I spent some money, id like to sell it for half price at least. Or best offer really.

 

[crunkazcanbe]

How old are you? I've met a lot of people who thought like you (I was one) and ultimately they all became addicts.

Opiates, even kratom, are not in the same league as alcohol, they can't be compared.

You don't even understand what addiction is yet if you can make a statement like 'battling compulsion is within everyone's capability.' Addiction is the breaking down of that ability. Keep going the way you are, you'll eventually give in on the two day a week thing and take it three, rationalize that it's not that big of a deal.

Actually physical dependence isn't the big problem. It's a minor problem compared to the psychological battle of addiction, at least with opioids and most other drugs, GABAergics like the benzos and barbs have a serious physical dependence associated with them, but it takes a long time to get to that point.

I've kicked the physical dependence a number of times- from kratom, bupe, methadone, oxy/dope, and I've never found it to horrible. It's the psychological aspect of withdrawal that is the problem. Anyone can handle some headaches, the flu and a little insomnia.

Amen brother . I have been battling oxy/smacks psychological aspect for 25 years now . Its that damn craving . I can go a year or more with out both , but as soon as a friend says he has some dope or oxy I can not resist it . I have the craving for both all the time , and for that fact I call these little blue 30mg ir tabs aka roxies the devil . I know it sounds crazy , but I crave oxy worse then Heroin .

I have been taken kratom for along time without touching oxy/dope ,and even moved away from my old connects , and friends just to get clean, but I just bought some tianeptine man , and let me tell you almost on par with oxy at 300mg close to 60<mg oxy. Been snorting about 50mg with 350mg swallowed all in one go . Its pure so I have been thinking about banging it . Tianeptine was a huge mistake , and I regret it. Might as well move back home .

 

[crunkazcanbe]

^ I agree, it is good stuff, I have been doing the same as you, just not as high a dose, but it has been the only thing I've used this entire week and I've had 0 withdrawal.

The question is: have you tried to stop using the tianeptine and if so what were the withdrawals like? If it's less intense than regular opioid/kratom withdrawal then my plan has worked.

Ok man coming off 250-350mg tianeptine 3 times a day with kratom was not easy . The damn RLS was bad even with 15grams of kratom taken ,and also I would need 20Grams of kratom to cover most of the withdrawal from tianeptine , and TBH thats a lot of kratom caps I would need to take . I cap my own BTW to save money . So I convinced myself taking tianeptine was better because I could get the amount I needed in one cap .

Yesterday I tried to take a couple of my Roxies 30mg oxycodone , and I started with 2 30mg after the tianeptine was completly gone from my body , and I could barly feel it . No lie I was like damn I am getting to where I rather take tianeptine, and thats pretty bad . It tells you somthing about tianeptine when taken above 350mg its some really nice shit close to about 100mg oxy to me .

 

[Hammilton]

Mycophile- I wasn't referring to using kratom itself, but rather the extracts we were discussing. I'd recommend trying both UEI / Full Spectrum Tincture (I haven't mentioned this one before, because, coming from the same people who make UEI and the oxindole enhanced extract, it is identical to UEI, just as a tincture) at least a few times, while they're still available. Eventually they're gonna be talked about the way people talk about phenmetrazine, quaaludes and ketobemidone- something incredible that'll just one day disappear. It isn't something that will appear on the black market- its general lack of potency and the fact that you've gotta eat a gross tasting powder has prevented these extracts from achieving more widespread popularity- thank God- or it'd have disappeared already.

Can a person use kratom recreationally a couple days a week without ultimately developing an addiction? I would think so, but it is playing roulette, especially if you were already addicted to benzos. Were you really addicted to them, though, or were you just physically dependent on them? They're not at all the same thing. Were you using more than prescribed? Buying them illegally? Would you go through a month's worth in a few days? A relative became addicted to diazepam and would go through his 90 x 10mg / month supply in about a week and buy more online. Was fine until he chewed through his backup stash and then his order got seized.

You may well be able to maintain using kratom like that, it is pretty mild. I've been addicted to opiates for a very long time now, and yet I have no problem controlling my use of prescribed amphetamine, just take my prescribed dose, exactly as prescribed, every day. I never found stimulants enjoyable, just very functional.

I suspect that if you use kratom recreationally on a regular basis like you have been, you'll eventually develop a habit, and always want to use it in certain circumstances. For me, taking opiates and laying down, kind of meditating while enjoying the 'mind movies' they produce, was an association that I find very hard to break- it's hard to sleep without first taking an opioid. I think it'd have been easier to break if I had associated it with another activity, one I can more easily stop. I always hold my suboxone under my tongue for an hour, and I've come to associate watching different television programs while taking it- I mean, I actually have fond memories of holding a sub under my tongue and watching Dr. Who and GoT and pretty much every other series on HBO and Showtime, lol.

I wish you luck, as ultimately you'll do whatever you want to do, but personally, knowing what I know now, I would experience many different things and then just stop experimenting. I wish I had stopped using opioids after trying pods a few dozen times or after the first couple times using dope. Instead I got a prescription and made it a daily thing.

 

[GrumpyCat]

You need a scale for accurate measument, but if it helps I just weighed out a couple teaspoons with my kratom (Bali) and they averaged about 1.70 grams each. Different grain sizes can affect how much volume kratom takes up by weight though; the kratom I used is a very fine powder but I've seen it look like sand.

Thanks jcdenton - was that a proper cooks measured teaspoon?

I'm also wondering if the low dose of 25mg amitriptyline I am taking is somehow inhibiting kratom effects.......