Kratom having anti-dopaminergic effects??

[plumbus-nine]

So far I was thinking that the point about kratom being antipsychotic wouldn't necessarily implicate direct antidopaminergic effects, as all opioids have antipsychotic properties even when they actually increase dopamine(?), but now yesterday I've started memantine, being a D2 agonist, again and while on it, kratom certainly has some nasty anti-dopamine signature ... is anything real known about whether it is an indirect or direct D2 antagonist and which alkaloid is responsible for?

The Potential for Kratom as an Antidepressant and Antipsychotic - PubMed (nih.gov)
Methanolic extract of Mitragyna speciosa Korth leaf inhibits ethanol seeking behaviour in mice: involvement of antidopaminergic mechanism - PubMed (nih.gov)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Antidepressant sure... But it makes some of my schizo symptoms slightly worse if anything, but I have a unique type of schizo.

Interesting though. And it does help with alcohol cravings, but only for a few hours.

 

[RDP89]

Could you elaborate on this “nasty anti dopamone signature” you speak of?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

It really depends on where the activity is in the brain. There might be a small overlap in some symptoms, but otherwise anxiolytics and antipsychotics differ in mechanism and effect.

First study. States that it reduces dopaminergic activity in the presence of ethanol/seeking behavior. Not in a healthy brain. Not more effective at it than clozapine.

Second...it doesn't really matter what it bonds to so much as the effect after bonding. There's a ton of variance here.

Chemicals in kratom might well be therapeutic, but research ahs yet too elucidate the discrete chemical effects.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Could you elaborate on this “nasty anti dopamone signature” you speak of?

Feels like some antipsychotic (e.g. olanzapine), I know they have different other effects than D2 but all share antagonism there with exception of the new partial agonists - I've tried all of them, because doctors back in other country didn't want to give anything else and told all sorts of "helps against bad thoughts" "makes you more clear" "works for anxiety" "augments antidepressants" "healthy people will feel nothing" stuff but what they all share and do for me is anhedonia, dysphoria, restlessness, but the most pronounced thing is feeling like I couldn't think and focus straight anymore, like some part connecting my left with right brain, right behind my forehead was anesthesized ... hard to explain but kratom, besides the mu-ergic feelgoodness, had already some weird hints of this. Maybe year long use of SNRI exacerbated some dopamine dysfunction, but I am heavily sensitive to antipsychs (1mg haloperidol caused extrapyramidal symptoms) .. this is why I went back to memantine.

Memantine after 2h or so gave me nice sub-euphoric, very relaxed mood and energy, which I was strongly missing ... and after ingesting some green vein kratom tea, all the effects faded and the kratom really felt like a low dose of olanzapine with addition relaxation... after 10mg more memantine I feel better but still lingering impairment..

Edit: There was a crash the following day, it felt like when I've done amphetamine for the first time, never ever got this from kratom nor memantine alone. Spent whole day in bed ...
Anybody experienced with extracting mitragynine, preferably in the kitchen?

 

[plumbus-nine]

Might it be just 5ht2a? Kratom is known to be a powerful antagonist at this site, but maybe it is even an inverse agonist? As 5ht2a is excitatory, and many/most? currently prescribed antipsychotics as well as some antidepressants and antihistamines antagonize this receptor, maybe, just maybe I am mistaken and it isn't primarily about dopamine - I know much too little about all the interactions of receptors, recently read that D2 is primarily mediating inhibitory(??) transmission ...

Will need to extract mitragynine ... wish I'd already have some but seemingly they don't like people ordering substances around here..

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Theoretically, 5-ht2a antagonism effects more dopamine release in the cortical regions.