Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over

[stardust.hero]

N I'm so happy you were able to identify that. Good for you!

 

[herbavore]

Gee fellas,

I could use you guys back on here. My husband keeps telling me how proud he is that I quit Kratom and booze, but tonight said, "You can have a drink every now and then, unless you're convinced you're an alcoholic." That kind of sucker punched me. He doesn't think I'm an alcoholic. Even after confessing how much I drank. I think he thinks I've talked myself into being labelled an 'alcoholic' and it's not necessarily true. I'm a high functioning drunk. But I'm still a drunk. I almost had a beer 'to see if I'll get out of control." But I didn't! But I almost did. However, I asked my diversion question: what is really going on, and the conclusion was, I didn't want him to feel lonely when he had a beer. Wheww. So close.


I hope ya'll are okay.

Love,
N

Wow! i am impressed, Nancy. I wonder if your husband might benefit from some reading material on the subject of alcoholism/addiction and how it affects everyone in a family and how everybody can play a part in keeping it going? That took some real strength on your part.

 

[podsnomo]

Your husband needs to understand that it's not how much you drink, but HOW you drink; what your relationship is to/with alcohol. I would only be speculating if I guessed at your husband's motivation for saying that, but I'd guess that he has some questions in his head that maybe even he doesn't know he has.

People close to us often don't understand. Actually, unless they are al anon they pretty much never understand. When I slipped once I drank all the beer in the house, about 17 of them. Later when I was talking to my mom about it, she said something like, "Well if you could just only have a few. You know, control it?" She doesn't get it. And even after explaining the physical allergy, i.e., the phenomenon of craving and the mental obsession, I think it still just sounded like mishmush to her. But that's OK. I don't expect her to have to understand.

My gf on the other hand, I NEED her to understand. And she's getting there. For a while after telling her about the addiction I had while "sober" from alcohol, she was furious. But it was anger previously untapped. She was furious at me, her dad, at life, that she needed a 12 step program. I'm far enough along to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But she still doesn't realize the serenity and peace and new way of life that lies in wait for us when we work a solid program.

I think you are awesome for admitting to yourself and everyone else that you have a problem with alcohol and need help. But it's not just that, you want a better life. There's such an amazing world ahead of you and still, for all of us on the journey, a lot of problems. Being sober doesn't solve our problems. It allows us to face life on life's terms.

I don't know what those terms will be for you Nancy. I worry for you and your husband a bit esp if he doesn't eventually come around to supporting you and getting active with his own recovery, or something along those lines. If you work your program with a sponsor Nancy your spirit will grow by leaps and bounds. You won't be a different person fundamentally but you will change in such basic ways that your marriage may feel very different to both of you. And that could be a wonderful thing, or a terrible thing, but much more likely, somewhere in between.

I know, for me, my gf, without realizing it, was used to me being a kind of vegetable. But not like I was never doing anything. I too was high functioning. But I wasn't very plugged into my life. I wasn't happy for sure. And I was eking through, and I thought I was managing my life. Now I get step one. So when I started asserting myself in my life, it freaked her out. I started working towards a life insurance license as part of a goal of becoming a financial adviser, something wildly different than all my education and previous experience. I cut my hair off. I was happier. I responded more kindly and less selfishly, and even that seemed to bother her!

People resist and fear change, and the alcoholic in recovery is no different, except that we are actively seeking change through action. It can freak out a significant other. Reminder here to all of us to be kind to ourselves and those close to us as regards all this change. You, at least I, have to be careful not to push my gf, but I also want to support her in as much as she's willing to put into her program. It's a beam to walk.

I don't know how much your husband needs a program, or if he should even have one. Really only he can decide. And if he does need one but is unwilling, you are powerless over that. And efforts to change him could just make things worse.

I'm rambling, and I'm talking more about me than you, but maybe some of it relates. Maybe he was testing you to see if your resolve was firm here. Maybe he fears the change (as is natural bc it's an unknown) and he's looking to see if he's really going to have to deal with a fundamentally changing wife. Again, I'm speculating and probably not even doing that very well.

Just stay plugged in, keep coming back, get a start on your steps with your sponsor, and love yourself. I always worry too much about everything, and my sponsor (an incredible man) tells me, promises me, that I never have to figure anything out ever again. All I have to do is work my program, trust my higher power, and everything will end up as it should be.

I'll try to write more when I'm less exhausted and frazzled. Also, I'll be sure to update you soon on my progress with the kratom. ugh!

Love and peace,
pnm

Gee fellas,

I could use you guys back on here. My husband keeps telling me how proud he is that I quit Kratom and booze, but tonight said, "You can have a drink every now and then, unless you're convinced you're an alcoholic." That kind of sucker punched me. He doesn't think I'm an alcoholic. Even after confessing how much I drank. I think he thinks I've talked myself into being labelled an 'alcoholic' and it's not necessarily true. I'm a high functioning drunk. But I'm still a drunk. I almost had a beer 'to see if I'll get out of control." But I didn't! But I almost did. However, I asked my diversion question: what is really going on, and the conclusion was, I didn't want him to feel lonely when he had a beer. Wheww. So close.


I hope ya'll are okay.

Love,
N

 

[nancylynnsmith]

PNM,

I fucked up with alcohol. But I'm still here.

N

 

[podsnomo]

Nancy, It's OK. Welcome to the journey. I'll be the last one on god's earth to judge you, and especially not for that. Be kind to yourself here. Don't beat yourself up. You're early in this process, so you haven't had time to start to build a spiritual solution. There are two things that treat alcoholism: alcohol and a spiritual program of action in AA. One stops working after a while and begins to rob from your life, but has its "rewards" instantly. The other takes time, never stops working as long as you work it, and is infinite in its potential. You may or may not fuck up again. See it for what it is: a slip, nothing more. And if you do slide back to where you were or worse, the fellowship and the solution will always be here for you. For most people, some fucking up, some serious and not so serious slips, some near-relapses and even a real relapse or a few are part of recovery.

My hope and prayer for you is that your journey won't be as arduous as mine was, and as alcoholics go, mine wasn't that bad. Some go to prisons, institutions, homelessness. I sometimes feel afraid that my bottom wasn't reached. It's a dumb fear. The reality is that we who do not have the rockiest of rock bottoms have to work a bit harder than those who lose all and have nothing left in life but to surrender. My bottom was internal. I was spiritually bankrupt and my inner self was shredded to ribbons. Only now am I seeing how sick I was. I had come to see my alcoholic life as normal. Early sobriety is the damnedest thing. Keep coming back.

Perspective. A new day tomorrow. A lesson learned. Do you have a sponsor yet?

warmest regards, hugs, and more hugs,
pnm

 

[nancylynnsmith]

After about the fifth drink, my husband politely requested I stop, and of course, that was impossible. I know my slip had a lot to do with me wanting to show him there is no such thing as moderation or 'a glass of wine over a nice dinner.' He and I are straight about NO MORE DRINKING. We had a looooong talk. He just doesn't understand how someone wouldn't just stop when they started to feel out of control. He's an architect, but has been the drummer for a series of bands, the current one having two female lead singers. He said, when I pointed out that not everyone has that 'off' switch, "Yeah, I guess that's true. The girls never stop drinking when we're playing." He says, "I just don't get it." I do, and now I think he's getting a clue.

Pods, I've been going to meetings, but I don't have a sponsor yet. The only women's meeting is on Sunday, and I haven't gone yet. Anyway, I'm interested to hear what you're going through now. I'll be okay. I went to my husband's gig tonight (as I always do) and the band was drinking a lot as usual - but they were all supportive of my decision to not drink.

I'll check back in soon.

Thank you for your response. Wise words and more to digest.

Love and hugs back,
N

 

[podsnomo]

These experiences seem to be working themselves out well Nancy. Sounds like your husband is indeed starting to understand. For normal drinkers, those who do not experience the phenomenon of craving (i.e., 2 drinks makes us thirsty for 10 more) or the mental obsession (i.e. thinking about drinking A LOT) it is hard for them to understand.

http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=2278
http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=2279

This is Burns talking about the disease of alcoholism, from the spiritual side to the scientific. It's not an AA talk. It's about the disease and how it affects us as wells as some scientific reasons why. I suggest you consider listening to them together. It could help him see it as less of something "in your mind" and more as just a plain-old stark reality to be dealt with.

It's OK not to have a sponsor yet, but I can tell you that going to meetings and not drinking will not bring peace. A spiritual program of action is needed a well. You've nothing to lose and everything to gain by giving yourself to our simple program (but not easy program. It may seem like a tall order. But taken a day at a time, it only gets better.

About me, I've reduced my kratom doses significantly and have ordered some stem and vein powder, which is supposed to be weak and just enough to use as a taper. This will help because instead of measuring fractions of a grams for dosage drops, I can take relatively more powder and still have drops in active alkaloids. My hair-brained plan to go CT without enough planning was kind of crazy. But the adjustments I'm amking have not taken away in the least my fire to rid myself of kratom once and for all.

Hang in there Nancy. It sound like your husband is catching on and I can tell you guys have a very strong marriage. I'm so proud of and happy for you both.

take it easy,
pnm

 

[herbavore]

^Nancy, do you think your husband would ever consider going to an al-anon meeting? I learned a lot when I went. As a person that doesn't struggle with addiction it can be hard to understand. It's exactly like a person that doesn't have insomnia saying to an insomniac , "well, if you are tired enough, you will sleep". Seems logical but doesn't happen--two completely different realities going on.

 

[nancylynnsmith]

Thanks Herbavore,

He might. I need to just do what I know works, and encourage him to al-anon just to get some perspective. I really do think he is starting to understand.

Love,
N

 

[nancylynnsmith]

Hey Ya'lllllllllllllllllllllll
I'm assuming everyone is doing well since the posts dropped off! Hope that's the case. All's well here.

 

[podsnomo]

I'm out of town for a wedding. I'm still on the Kratom Nancy, but less of it, mostly because it's tough to find a chance to put some down the hatch being out of town and with my gf most of the time. Ugh. I'm learning that the WDs are less than I think they're gonna be, but also learning that being in an awkward social setting while needing some more kratom is kinda hellish.

After the rehearsal dinner last night they all went to a bar. Last place I wanted to be. So I offered to walk the mile back to our car to bring it closer to the bar. Just didn't wanna be there. There's always somewhere or something one can do to get away from a shitty environment. I hate bars these days. I walk through and pretty much guess who's the regular people and who are of my type: alcoholics. We're easier to spot once on of us gets sober.

Glad to hear things are well with you Nancy. Does it bug you if I ask about whether you have a sponsor and how you're feeling about starting to work your program?

Peace and love,
pnm

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Hey all, I've been off the boards for a while but definitely not off the kratom. I was using upwards of 30g of bali every day up until a week before I had to leave for an 8 day trip to the east coast, which would obviously be sans kratom. Fearing withdrawals while on vacation, I planned to gradually taper down over the course of about 3 months before the trip, down to nothing at all before I leave. Well, as anyone knows, that's hard, and I failed. I used heavily up until the week before. I tried an aggressive taper over the course of the week, simply tapering down each day from 3 doses in a day, down to 2, down to 1, took a difficult day off, used again for a couple days, took another day off, and then the day I left I had myself a hefty dose for the plane ride....and braced myself for the worst.

I got to NY and visited with family, doing a lot of casual drinking as I always do with family but never getting out of control with it. I came across some really shitty weed halfway through the week, smoked it and didn't even get stoned (I'm way too used to that sweet sweet PNW bud ) so as far as I'm concerned I didn't have any weed or kratom all week. As for the kratom withdrawals, aside from cravings, and maybe a tad of manageable anxiety and insomnia the first couple days, there was no withdrawal! No cold sweats, no diarrhea, no typical withdrawal symptoms except for MAYBE the first day. The first day was stressful and tiresome as always, overstimulating and exhausting, I always have had trouble sleeping and always have had a weird appetite, so I definitely felt way 'off' the first day or two. I had a lot of trouble sleeping, felt anxious and didn't have much appetite. However, as the week progressed, I started to feel much better and then by about day 4 or 5, I can honestly say I felt any and all 'symptoms' completely disappear, and I had a sudden desire to "maybe never take anything ever again while I still feel this way about it"

Obviously, when we got home, one of the first things I did was shovel a hefty kratom dose into my face, but I felt ok about my usage because I had just done what seemed impossible. I just basically stopped cold turkey for over a week and was just fine!! On this basis, I started using every day again, justifying it with "oh I know I'm able to quit anytime I want so it doesn't matter". Since then I have came across a new strain of kratom that is nearly twice as potent as the strain I've been using all along, and at first I fooled myself into thinking this stronger strain would help me use less. Nope, it was so good it just got that much more addicting.

Here I am a couple months after my trip to NY, currently using just under 20g of this new potent Maeng Da strain in 2 doses every single day. I've taken only a single day off here and there when I run out and don't get my next order soon enough, and I have to say, these days are the hardest than ever. Getting up in the morning, knowing that I have no kratom for the day and won't be getting any until tomorrow night....drives me NUTS until I tear open that glorious Priority Mail envelope... Today is one of those days, and I'm furiously refreshing the USPS tracking # page hoping that maybe, just maybe, somehow the delivery truck was turbocharged and got here a day early....knowing that it won't. I think it's knowing that it's just barely out of reach is what makes it so tantalizing, however when you know you won't have it and can't have it for a long period of time, it somehow gets simpler.

To end my rambling, I'll simply say this: Us human beings need something in our lives to maintain that balance, otherwise we go crazy. How many folks jump off bridges, shoot themselves, shoot others, or just simply 'lose it' from this near-impossible daily struggle we call life? I'm not saying we all have a psycho killer within us, however of those good people who end their own lives due to overwhelming stress and anxiety, do you think any of them thought to themselves "one day, I might kill myself"? No, it just sorta happens, people snap, they lose touch, the world beats down on them and there is seemingly no escape. Often, the only 'escape' folks know of are the ones that are advertised and allowed to them, like alcohol and cigarettes, which are hardly good 'escapes' at all. Luckily, we're smart enough to know there is a better way, and with things like kratom and cannabis, a person can find relief, and have something to always look forward to, while at the same time not have that same relief be something that's slowly killing them anyway. Kratom is an extremely effective and low-cost/risk aid that I think anyone could find a use for in their lives, especially when the tough gets just a little too tough. A few years back I started to really lose hope in life, the daily corporate grind was really starting to weigh on me and I was starting to feel lost and hopeless, as if the rest of my life was not really worth struggling for. I'm not going to say kratom was THE cure, however these days I uphold a far more positive and hopeful outlook on life. Instead of getting up in the morning dreading work, I can at least wake up and think "Oh yeah, I get to have some kratom!" Then I find myself bounding out of bed, prepare myself a bottle of my trusty helper, and then within the hour I feel myself actually EXCITED to get to work!! Then, I have a great day, smiling at everyone, enjoying my job, feeling thankful that I have the job I have, and looking forward to what the future brings. There absolutely no reason to cut this completely out of my life, I simply need to moderate my usage so I don't subject myself to these awful 'in-between' days. Then, I think the balance of life will be within my grasp.


Just felt like weighing in on this thread. Hopefully some of you going through kratom w/d's can feel a little better about it. Just know it won't last very long!!

 

[phactor]

I am a bit confused Seattle_Stanger, you say that you felt that you had little to no withdrawals and then posted that you were anxious, low appetite, had trouble sleeping etc. Sounds like your taper was effective at reducing the symptoms and you had a good mind frame/were distracted. I would be cautious about using any type of substance to bring your life "balance", even Kratom. Just be careful about rationalization... some of us are very good at it. I am a master of it myself.

Since your trip, have you gone more then a day without Kratom? I wonder how your body would react without a three month taper.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

I am a bit confused Seattle_Stanger, you say that you felt that you had little to no withdrawals and then posted that you were anxious, low appetite, had trouble sleeping etc. Sounds like your taper was effective at reducing the symptoms and you had a good mind frame/were distracted. I would be cautious about using any type of substance to bring your life "balance", even Kratom. Just be careful about rationalization... some of us are very good at it. I am a master of it myself.

Since your trip, have you gone more then a day without Kratom? I wonder how your body would react without a three month taper.

Now that I re-read my post, yeah it's certainly a ramble and confusing, sorry about that.

I had the intention of tapering over 3 months, but never was able to bring myself to do it, so I basically had no taper at all. The very last week right before my trip, I severely decreased my usage but definitely didn't stop. I didn't get any lasting or severe w/d symptoms, simply a bit of discomfort the first day or two of the trip. Like I said, I have always been a severe insomniac, my appetite has always been funky, and I always have been very anxiety prone, these kind of things even occur while on kratom occasionally, however a lot less often. Usually when I travel, it's a given that I will have tons of trouble sleeping, my appetite will diminish and I will probably have some level of anxiety, ALWAYS when I travel. This trip was no different, except maybe the simple cravings for kratom made things a tad worse....but still it was a cake walk compared to what I was bracing myself for! I was expecting diarrhea, nausea, stomach issues, no sleep at all, no appetite at all, extreme anxiety and depression, body aches, restlessness, cold sweats, feverish symptoms, absolutely NONE of this occurred.

Since I returned from the trip, I have gone a handful of days without it here and there, usually no more than two days without it. Yesterday was one of those days, and admittedly it was hard. A lot of stressful/depressing things culminated that day, including work issues, relationship issues, and other upsetting things that had to be dealt with, which resulted in me feeling extremely emotional and just generally having a really bad day....on top of not having kratom since Sunday. I felt very depressed and upset, was missing my family terribly, feeling guilty for having moved so far away, etc.. Today, I woke up feeling just fine.

Having said all that, my point is simply that YES kratom withdrawals do exist, however NO they are not severe and NO they do not last much more than a day or two. I can't imagine it being much worse than drinking lots of coffee every day and then suddenly stopping completely. Yeah, you might be a little 'off' for a day or two but that's about the worst of it!


As far as my 'self-medicating', yes, I understand what you're saying about being careful with that. I certainly try to be, but I am also fairly lenient with kratom. I used to be very strict with myself, only allowing one dose per day, and only allowing use every OTHER day, meaning there is at least day without kratom between usages. Back when I did this, there certainly was a great balance, tolerance never seemed to set in much and I had absolutely no problem if I for some reason had to go a few days without it. I would like to return to such a regimen, and even have a goal of using even less of it, to the point where it completely returns to being a purely recreational even-now-and-then kind of thing that it should be.

 

[herbavore]

There is a huge difference in enabling and support--believe me, it is one that I am very intimate with. Support is not enabling the person to go on doing what they are doing by making it easier in any way for he or she to continue. Draw your boundaries clearly. Statements of faith in the person's ability to change and heal and recover translate to support. Believing that your complicity in a mess is going to keep a person alive is faulty thinking. Addiction makes for masters at manipulation. But it is up to you not to be manipulated. As far as using yourself, that is completely up to you so don't fool yourself into thinking it is because she wants you to. I think you should start your own thread for this and get support before you get in too deep.

 

[Fresco]

<snip - I don't know if recommending another kratom substance to a person addicted to kratom is the best advice.>

 

[b4rd]

i know youre not supposed to promote drug use, but maybe you should get prescribed suboxone. it has made me take a complete 180 in my life. i have a job. i am doing well. be on a legally prescribed opiate for a year, THEN try and try to make your life better . i dunno . opiates have ruined my life. but maybe they can fix yours. then quit. i feel you. its hard shit

 

[phactor]

i know youre not supposed to promote drug use, but maybe you should get prescribed suboxone. it has made me take a complete 180 in my life. i have a job. i am doing well. be on a legally prescribed opiate for a year, THEN try and try to make your life better . i dunno . opiates have ruined my life. but maybe they can fix yours. then quit. i feel you. its hard shit

Many around here will agree that a difference exists between Doctor Prescribed medications used correctly vs other non-prescribed substances. Its more of an issue of common sense.

Suboxone might be a little extreme for kratom though, unless the habit is a very very large one. A quick taper and then some comfort meds (clonidine, atarax, sleeping pill and maybe a few benzos) should be enough to get off relatively comfortably.

 

[CvB]

hello i am very new here. i have taken kratom in the past and it worked well. recently ive been trying to kick suboxone and was wondering if anybody could pm me with a very good stfong source. i have used a good soure before but would like opinions. thank u.

 

[phactor]

hello i am very new here. i have taken kratom in the past and it worked well. recently ive been trying to kick suboxone and was wondering if anybody could pm me with a very good stfong source. i have used a good soure before but would like opinions. thank u.

We are not allowed to give out sources. Many (including myself) have gotten off of Suboxone by slowly tapering and then having the doctor prescribe comfort meds. I do not think many would recommend using Kratom to get off of Suboxone.