Kill Jill Vol. 1- Was the TV presenter killed by a hitman hired by a Paedo ring?

[Vurtual]

@Sam - Well just as proof of concept, is barbara castle's putative dossier any more real sounding to you since that last guardian article about the d-notices?

 

[Si Dread]

You're referring to this, right?

The security services are facing questions over the cover-up of a Westminster paedophile ring as it emerged that files relating to official requests for media blackouts in the early 1980s were destroyed.

Two newspaper executives have told the Observer that their publications were issued with D-notices – warnings not to publish intelligence that might damage national security – when they sought to report on allegations of a powerful group of men engaging in child sex abuse in 1984. One executive said he had been accosted in his office by 15 uniformed and two non-uniformed police over a dossier on Westminster paedophiles passed to him by the former Labour cabinet minister Barbara Castle.

The other said that his newspaper had received a D-notice when a reporter sought to write about a police investigation into Elm Guest House, in southwest London, where a group of high-profile paedophiles was said to have operated and may have killed a child. Now it has emerged that these claims are impossible to verify or discount because the D-notice archives for that period “are not complete”.

Officials running the D-notice system, which works closely with MI5 and MI6 and the Ministry of Defence, said that files “going back beyond 20 years are not complete because files are reviewed and correspondence of a routine nature with no historical significance destroyed”.

from - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/22/media-gagged-westminster-child-abuse-ring

April last year. An unsolved case is not a closed case. Doesn't matter what the family wants, the Police want to solve fucking murders, don't they?

A spokesman said: ‘This case remains unsolved and, as with all unsolved cases, any new information that comes to us would be examined.

'All unsolved cases remain open; our aim is always to try to solve all murders.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...finding-Jill-Dandos-killer.html#ixzz3KCLR4Jzi

 

[Sammy G]

@Sam - Well just as proof of concept, is barbara castle's putative dossier any more real sounding to you since that last guardian article about the d-notices?

I don't see what Catle's dossier has to do with Dando's murder, especially as with Castle's case we're not dealing with a single 'anonymous source'. Furthermore, none of the sources around the Castle allegations appear to have been targeted by this mythical paedo hit squad.

Just poor ol' Jill then, eh?

Proof of concept? Fine. I don't see how it gets us any further though.

April last year. An unsolved case is not a closed case. Doesn't matter what the family wants, the Police want to solve fucking murders, don't they?

Generally not fifteen-year-old cold cases where no new evidence has come to light, or is ever likely to.

That Daily Mail article is basically police-speak for "do you think we're stupid enough to plough resources into THIS?".

Oh, and by the way, the Castle dossier isn't the Dando dossier. Unless you can prove that, but I won't be waiting up.

Si, you make me wanna, um, sigh.

 

[Si Dread]

Generally not fifteen-year-old cold cases where no new evidence has come to light, or is ever likely to.

patent rubbish. Police investigate decades old murders. Rubbish mate.

the paedo story has barely broken, Savile is the tip of the ice-berg. Given how much of Saviles activities are only now coming out, there is every reason to suspect that more information about Dando's murder, if it was in any way related to paedo gangs, is still to emerge. If something comes to light you can be pretty damned certain that the pigs will investigate regardless of the cost or inconvenience. Powerful paedo's may well be able to keep the lid on it, of course, but murder is murder & high profile, unsolved murders make the pigs look shit.

Nobodys trying to prove the dossiers are the same. You can go to bed. It's the fact that paedo dossiers have a way of disappearing that's being used as ammo for conjecture that the same may well have happened to Jills paedo dossier, if one did indeed exist. Some people, people who knew Dando, probably people with more credibility than little old nobodys like you & me certainly seem to think it did/does.

Why is it so difficult to accept that people who knew Dando reckon she was onto an establishment paedo ring? Is it because accepting that possibility opens the possibility that her murder is related to paedos & you're just so against all that, for some reason..?

 

[Sammy G]

So - just because Barbara Castle's dossier was confiscated, that lends credence to speculation that a fucking Songs of Praise presenter not only had a dossier of her own, but was murdered for passing it on to production staff at the BBC?

Did Judith Chalmers have one as well?

As for the 'people who knew Dando', are we talking about the single anonymous source?

If that person had any credibility whatsoever, they'd be well aware that stories from anonymous sources aren't taken seriously by anybody but the gutter press, unless they're corroborated by a named witness. You or I could be an anonymous source tomorrow, peddling whatever shit we desired. The hacks don't ask for credentials. In any case, nine times out of ten it's the hack themselves,

Surely one of the many people who must have seen this dossier (if it existed) would come forward out of their respect for Dando, if nothing else?

I despair.

 

[Vurtual]

So - just because Barbara Castle's dossier was confiscated, that lends credence to speculation that a fucking Songs of Praise presenter not only had a dossier of her own, but was murdered for passing it on to production staff at the BBC?

Proof of concept is, er, proof of the concept: credence for the idea that there could be paedo rings in the establishment who use their power to protect themselves and maintain cover ups for decades. Speculation about possible motives for the dando killing is an answer to people who say there couldn't possibly be a paedo-related motive (remember we're still talking possibilities). Are you really sure that the speculative version i outlined in my post is impossible? I don't think it's even that improbable given my knowledge of the secret state, based on real documented actions (is killing david kelly who was then a very big media story really all that less unbelievable than that dando got whacked)

 

[Sammy G]

Um, Vurtual?

Shouldn't you be replying to post #105? The one I directed at you in response to your post about proof of concept? Rather than one I addressed to Si?

If anything sums up this thread, it's that.

 

[yoyo50]

 

[Si Dread]

Surely one of the many people who must have seen this dossier (if it existed) would come forward out of their respect for Dando, if nothing else?

I despair.

Would you come forward if the person who gave you a dossier on criminals had her head blown off a week later? I doubt it. Perhaps they are coming forward now, but we won't know about that 'til it hits the news.

Why bother despairing? This is all rubbish, it's not worth your time. Go to bed.

I don't think it's even that improbable given my knowledge of the secret state, based on real documented actions (is killing david kelly who was then a very big media story really all that less unbelievable than that dando got whacked)

This is basically all I'm getting at. If this Savile shit was going on under our noses for decades, if these paedo guest houses were full of murdering establishment scum for decades, & if government figures & celebrities were abusing children on an industrial scale for decades, all of which appear to some extent to have been established as fact, what the actual fuck don't we yet know about..?

 

[Vurtual]

Um, Vurtual?

Shouldn't you be replying to post #105? The one I directed at you in response to your post about proof of concept? Rather than one I addressed to Si?

If anything sums up this thread, it's that.

That sums up the thread? (is it hard being so superior? ) I thought you agreed when you said "Proof of concept? Fine." so i moved on - i wasn't claiming it was proof of proof. Or that it showed proof of the concept of the murder itself (though kelly gives me that to a degree) - just that it may prove the concept of a paedo ring in the establishment (which it seemed you agreed with).

There are several of my posts that you only answered one slice of but i don't mind (they're usually too long and full of waffle).

Edit: some more proof of concept from the belgium paedo scandal - from here:

"On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte, the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described "the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out. Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure. We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates." Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. "Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry," he said. He believed that the Mafia had taken control of the case.[6]
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#Allegations_of_massive_cover-up

and:

In 2002, the BBC wrote: “Bruno Tagliaferro, a Charleroi scrap-metal merchant who knew Dutroux, claimed to know something about the car in which Julie and Melissa were kidnapped. But he was soon found dead, apparently of a heart attack.”

A rather suspicious heart attack, under the circumstances.

His wife also thought so and “refused to accept the verdict and arranged for his body to be exhumed. Samples sent to the US for analysis showed he’d been poisoned.”

But this tragic fate of the scrap-metal merchant who knew something about Dutroux was soon to extend to his wife.

The BBC added: “Soon after, her teenage son found her dead at home in her bed, her mattress smouldering. Publicly it was declared suicide, or an accident.”

It’s difficult to imagine how someone can accidentally set themselves alight in their bed, and surely the technique is rather outlandish for a suicide.

The BBC reported in 2002 that there had (at that stage) already been 20 such peculiar deaths surrounding the case: chiefly witnesses and informants due to give evidence in court in the build-up to the trial in 2004.

Edit: And...

Sobering words from a Belgian former congressman and senator:

"Imagine, everywhere you hear that story about a blackmail dossier in which organizations of the extreme right are in the possession of pictures and videos on which a number of prominent people in and around Brussels have sex with young girls; minors it is said. The existence of this dossier has always been vehemently denied. Until it was proven that testimonies and videos of this affair indeed were in the possession of the police services. An officer of the judicial police (Marnette, H.G.) denied the existence of these videos, while afterwards this person's superior admitted that they did exist, that they were kept with the judicial police in Brussels, but that they were completely worthless. Strange, because this stuff needs to be deposited with the registrar and not be kept in the possession of some police service. Subsequently, examining magistrate Jean-Marie Schlicker confirms that this dossier does indeed exist, but that he wishes not to give any testimonies about it. The at first non-existing dossier turns out to exist. The videos without substance then turn out to be interesting enough after all to be handed over to the examining magistrate tasked with the investigation into the Gang of Nijvel. But this person subsequently is afraid to testify about that! What do you think that has been going on here?"

-September 1989, Congressman Hugo Coveliers, secretary of the special investigating committee tasked with evaluating the way gangsterism and terrorism is combated in Belgium (1988-1990), to Humo magazine (1990, Hugo Gijsels, 'De Bende & Co', p. 133-134). Coveliers became a senator in 1995.

Discouraging yet revealing words allegedly from Former CIA director William Colby:

"What you have to understand, John, is that sometimes there are forces and events too big, too powerful, with so much at stake for other people or institutions, that you cannot do anything about them, no matter how evil or wrong they are and no matter how dedicated or sincere you are or how much evidence you have. This is simply one of the hard facts of life you have to face."

- Former CIA director and Cercle member William Colby giving advice to his friend senator John DeCamp, urging to quit his investigations into the Franklin child abuse affair and to write a book about his experiences (The Franklin Coverup, 2nd edition, foreword).

Just go to the link - there are various sources there.

 

[Si Dread]

Nice find. More ammo

edit -

The case of Martin Allen’s disappearance was closed in the 1980s, but reopened in 2009 and shut again last year. Mr Allen and his brother, Jeffrey, 61, said that police claimed in 2009 that files has been destroyed by a flood.

“We had to give evidence over again to the police,” Mr Allen said. “But then later, when the case was still open, the two detectives on it told us that a retired police officer had withdrawn the files and gone to Spain.

“They said they had tried to get a warrant to question the officer but couldn’t get it from the Spanish authorities. You don’t know what to believe.”

Jeffrey Allen said the detective who led the case in 1979 had told his family that there were “high-up people involved” and that they should stop talking and “not take it further because someone will get hurt”.

from - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-vip-paedophile-ring-say-police-9883509.html

Whistleblower Mr X, whose identity we have agreed to protect, became a very senior figure in local government before retiring a few years ago. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, he was a full-time consultant in the Home Office’s Voluntary Services Unit run by Clifford Hindley.

In 1979 Mr X was asked to examine a funding renewal application for PIE, but he became concerned because the organisation’s goal of seeking to abolish the age of consent “conflicted” with the child protection policies of the Department of Health and Social Security and asked for a meeting with Mr Hindley, his immediate boss.

“And he said PIE was being funded at the request of Special Branch which found it politically useful to identify people who were paedophiles. This led me not to pursue my objections. At that time, questioning anything to do with Special Branch, especially within the Home Office, was a ‘no-no’.

from - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/48...ation-Exchange-says-Home-Office-whistleblower

 

[Shambles]

If not paedio gangs then...

Plan B?

"Cos I'm untouchable
like Eliot Ness
Tie a bandana round my head
like Rambo
Shoot you on your doorstep
like Jiil Dando.

That's a confession for sure.

 

[Shambles]

If not paedio gangs then...

Plan B?

"Cos I'm untouchable
like Eliot Ness
Tie a bandana round my head
like Rambo
Shoot you on your doorstep
like Jiil Dando.

That's a confession for sure.

 

[Si Dread]

Heard ya the first time Shambs. Honestly, mod calibre has plummeted round here

Todays Richmond & Twickenham Times reports that a now defunct local paper called The Comet was once also hit with an apparent D-Notice to cease & desist it's investigations into high profile paedophiles at the Elm Guest House in the 80's. As in the case of larger media companies, there is no record that these D-Notices wre actually official, they may have been faked to scare local reporters into dropping their investigations.

A former Surrey Comet news editor may have been handed a fake D-notice preventing him from reporting on the alleged Westminster paedophile ring working out of Elm Guest House in Barnes.

Hilton Tims, husband of the Comet’s features editor June Sampson, made national headlines this week when he said the paper had been gagged by the Government of the early 1980s over the scandal.

But the Government department that handles the D-notice system has denied such an order was ever made – and suggested whatever was sent to the Comet could have been a fake “as a means of applying pressure”.

Elm Guest House, which has since closed and been converted into flats, is at the centre of the Metropolitan Police’s Operation Fernbridge, which is investigating claims of sexual abuse and grooming of children by Government ministers, MPs and senior police officers in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

This month the Met said a new inquiry had begun into the guest house after one victim claimed he saw three boys murdered, including one allegedly strangled by a Conservative MP during a sex game.

Mr Tims, 82, was the paper’s news editor between 1980 and 1988, and told the Observer newspaper on Sunday that one of his reporters was given a D-notice in 1984 after being tipped off about the guest home.

from - http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtim...t_House_gagging_order__could_have_been_fake_/

 

[Si Dread]

...excuse me for double posting but I saw an interesting interview on Sky News this afternoon with John Mann, MP for Bassetlaw, who was talking about the murders of Bulic Forsyth & another man which is now being pinned on their investigations of establishment paedophiles.

Two whistle-blowers who had information about MPs' alleged involvement in a paedophile ring could have been murdered, according to a Labour MP who has handed a dossier of evidence to Scotland Yard.

Speaking to Sky News, John Mann MP claims he has evidence relating to the suspicious deaths of two men - a former Lambeth council official named Bulick Forsythe, and a caretaker whose name he did not disclose.

He said the police were already aware of the potential link between one of the deaths and the child sex abuse ring, which involved "highly influential" politicians during the 1970s and 1980s.

Although Mr Mann has now handed the information to the Metropolitan Police, he has been aware of it since the 1980s and 1990s, when he said the police declined to fully investigate.

"Bulick Forsythe had significant information in relation to child abuse," he said.

"The second was a caretaker who said he had tapes relating to sex parties that were taking place," he added.

"Mr Forsythe went to the police at the time and got nowhere. What I want to see is both those suspicious deaths reinvestigated."

His dossier includes 22 names of MPs he believes were involved in paedophile rings in North Wales, Lambeth in south London, Dolphin Square in central London, Rochdale, and one other location which he declined to name for legal reasons.

The MPs named include 14 Conservatives, five Labour politicians and three from other parties. Of them, 13 are former ministers.

Mr Mann told Sky News that he has given the police enough evidence on some of the suspects that he would expect the police to act "soon".

"I am confident there will be people arrested," said Mr Mann. "In some cases I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen soon."

The prospect of arrests for child abuse by MPs is likely to intensify calls for an inquiry into the historical allegations.

Home Secretary Theresa May has been dogged by setbacks after two successive chairs were forced to resign over their links to establishment figures in positions of power at the time.

Mrs May said last week that the inquiry should have the powers of a statutory inquiry in order to compel witnesses to give evidence but members of the panel are reported to be "devastated" that the existing inquiry, which has started preliminary work, is to be disbanded.

Scotland Yard detectives were already investigating "credible" claims that the murders of three young boys - aged between seven and 16 - were linked to high-profile abusers, including MPs. One victim was allegedly run over by a car.

Last Thursday, a fresh appeal was launched for further victims of historical abuse at the Dolphin Square estate, in southwest London, to come forward.

Children were allegedly taken to sex parties at the plush property, which was popular with politicians.

from - http://news.sky.com/story/1396256/westminster-child-abuse-claims-of-new-murders

I'm still working on my Dando research, presently reading a detailed account of the investigation into her murder, which is quite extraordinary in it's depth & fills the second half of this book. If Dando still had a copy of her dossier on paedophiles, I'd be very surprised if the Police didn't find it, because as far as I can tell, the investigation was extremely thorough - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jill-Dando-Her-Life-Death/dp/0140294686

 

[pinkpapaver]

I'm just err "happy" (! !) in my own knowledge that the media and politicians are always lying to us and covering up for each other and murdering people. Better to keep meself busy searching for my own troof. Getting the splinter out of my own eye while laughing at those with the planks in theirs!

 

[Si Dread]

I'm just err "happy" (! !) in my own knowledge that the media and politicians are always lying to us and covering up for each other and murdering people. !

at least they're consistent...

I'm quite surprised to be resurrecting this thread, but I found a new doc, well, new for this thread, on Dandos murder. It does not suggest that she was murdered by paedos, it seems to finger the IRA or something. Gutted. Only joking. But some names do come up that I have also seen connected to the general paedophiles-in-power story that's still gathering pace... as seen by recent teddy heath revelations which were no surprise to anyone interested in this shit.

Anyway, I've heard Tony Blaires name come up in various quarters regarding his part in paedo cover-ups. Alistair Campbells names has come up to too. It might have been Icke who has made these claims but if Icke was right about teddy heath 15 years ago, why not now?

This documentary, the makers of which claim to have seen all the Police investigation documentation, also mentions that Cliff Richard was interviewed by police in the aftermath of her death, because he was a "close friend" of Dandos. This is the first time I've seen or heard Richards names connected with Dandos murder & it didn't come from a dodgy conspiracy site! I've speculated that because Richard was at the party to celebrate Dandos engagement to the man who is now gynaecologist to the queen only a few weeks before her murder, that it might be Cliff Richard who was the link between Dando & whomever murdered her. Perhaps at the party Richard overheard her plans to out savile or something, or perhaps she trusted him & told him openly... I always wondered how Richard connected with someone powerful enough to have Dando offed but now I have the plainly evil cabal Blair/Campbell to consider.

Also! One of the most suspicious things about Dandos death for me was the almost wilful ineptitude displayed in both the investigation of the murder & the fitting up of Barry George. This was a very public, day-time murder of a very popular, well known personality in a nice area & the police almost seemed to try to fuck up the investigation! Was there interference from the top of government in the investigation, the leaning on people to do a less than thorough job?

There is an interview with a current TV News presenter Alice Beer who, a few weeks before Dandos murder, received a written death threat. Dando also received one of the same threats & the Police were investigating it when Dando was killed. Yet this other TV presenter was never asked to talk to the Police. Why? Cover-up. This is just one new hole to add to the the uncountable number discussed in this book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jill-Dando-Her-Life-Death/dp/0140294686

My much derided contention that Dandos murder was a professional hit is almost beyond doubt by the pundits towards the end of this documentary, which is within this article -

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jill-dando-murder-documentary-watch-5460623

The text accompanying the video is below.

An exclusive documentary revealing the secrets of the Jill Dando murder case can be watched in full for the first time today - ONLY on our website.

The compelling 47-minute film is the result of a year-long probe by double award-winning investigative reporter Mark Williams-Thomas.

During his forensic review, former detective Mark pored over more than 52,000 documents, plus hours of previously unseen footage.

Mark, honoured by the Royal Television Society for his Exposure film unmasking Jimmy Savile as a predatory paedophile, worked alongside a Mirror team.

The documentary features full interviews with experts connected with the case who raise grave fears the original police investigation into Jill’s 1999 murder was flawed.

Mark explores in detail why potentially key lines of enquiry may have been missed, as police concentrated their efforts on nailing Jill’s neighbour Barry George.

Viewers can see for the first time prime suspect George being interviewed by detectives, and film from the police search of the loner’s home.

38-year-old Crimewatch presenter Jill was shot dead on her doorstep on April 26, 1999 and her killer remains at large.

Barry George was convicted of her murder the following year and jailed before being cleared in 2008 after a retrial.

George tells in his own words why the real killer must be found for the sake of Jill’s family.

 

[pinkpapaver]

It's so nice to know that there are intelligent thoughtful people out there. It's criminal what they did to Barry George, tried him by media, locked him up and then threw him out onto the street. Always a cover up and some poor sod of a victim. George is lucky to be alive still! There are others get caught up in the governments web of lies and deceit and lose their lives over it. Whoever drummer lee rigby was he's some poor kid has lost his life because of these scumbags in power.

I read and listen to Thomas Sheridan even if he has a big ego. He has a thought that Jimmy savile worked with the Yorkshire ripper but throws a silly in by saying he modelled his look on Myra hindley. Well, I'm open minded. If you watch the thru the key hole episode with him he is wearing a t shirt that says " I am an animal and I will eat you" he also says that he is feared in every girls school in the country. Monster alright. That's fuck all to be proud of, but hay ho, we can't say he didn't warn us. Hidden in plain sight and all that. The bbc didn't have to tell us because he told us all along what a sick depraved man he was.

 

[Si Dread]

why do they refuse to offer George compensation? Because to give George compensation for wrongful imprisonment would give impetus to those calling for the investigation to be continued/re-opened. They wish to leave some ambiguity in place & by refusing to give George compensation they leave open the possibility that he did in fact commit the murder & there is only insufficient evidence to keep him imprisoned for it.

 

[Sammy G]

The investigation has not been reopened at the request of Dando's family, as stated before in this thread. Nothing to do with George's being refused compensation, which rests on a legal technicality:

The government introduced new legislation in 2014 which made changes to the compensation scheme, creating a statutory definition of what constitutes a "miscarriage of justice".
Now compensation is only paid when the court quashes a conviction because a new fact has emerged to show beyond reasonable doubt that the applicant did not commit the offence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31578422

George's conviction was quashed due to lack of substantial evidence, not because of new evidence which demonstrated his innocence 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

I don't deny that George should receive some compensation, but refusal to do so because of a technicality of law, which had nothing to do with the George case, is not proof of a conspiracy.