Kicking my opiate habit soon. Taper advice/kind words needed!!

[TheLuckiest]

I posted an intro, but here's more about myself:

I've abused opiates off and on for 6 years now, and my latest binge has been almost 18 months. I kicked a pretty serious pod tea habit 2 years ago, but opiates have become my way of coping with my increasingly stressful life. My current kick has consisted mainly of Roxicodone 30s. 8-12 of them a day if I can find them. If not, it's not unusual for me to take 35-40 Norco/Lortab 10s a day. This is BY FAR the worst I've ever been, and I'm disgusted with myself. My self esteem is non-existent, and I (a 27 year old, athletic, self-described manly man) break down daily at the thought of how weak and pathetic I am. I've stolen from work, using my addiction to justify it. I know better, and I'm 100% humiliated by my actions.

I'm ready to quit. I've withdrawn CT 4 times, but this time it's not an option. 10 weeks ago the woman of my dreams gave birth to our son. He is the light of my life. His mother (or any of my family or friends) know about my problem, and I taking care of an infant while in withdrawals is NOT an option for me.

I've kicked myself since his birth, because I had an infinite supply of 8mg Suboxone available. A friend got into a program, but instead of using it he would sell it to buy pills. I told myself I'd use it to taper and quit before my son was born, but my self control is less than ideal. Now he's in another state, running from the law. There's a Suboxone Doc in my (tiny) town, but due to the small town rumor mill he's a last resort.

I think I've found a source for some more Suboxone. Could someone give me an idea of how I should taper with minimal down time? My tolerance is HIGH, and the last time I took Subs I needed 12-16mg to feel comfortable. I'm starting a new job in 2 weeks and would prefer to be mostly clean by then. I'm 100% committed this time. Every time I hold my son and he looks in my eyes, I feel like he KNOWS his daddy just did a line in the bathroom. It's ripping me up inside.

My girlfriend's father was a lifelong addict, and I really don't think she would leave me if I came clean to her. But I really don't want her to have to worry about it. I have the added benefit of no more dealers, also. I'm 100% motivated to quit on my own, but it won't be hard to stay clean. My sources have all gone to jail, rehab or are on the run.

I really just need help with a taper plan, as I have NO experience tapering. If I can find Suboxone, I'll probably start at 16mg per day. Where should I go from there....? As long as my supply lasts, I can draw it out as long as possible. Sub works very well for me. I used it (and only it) for almost 3 months. I felt great, and I had no desire to do anything else. Any advice, support, or encouragement would help. Thanks!

 

[RedLeader]

What route-of-administration will you be using for the Suboxone? Subliminal (under the tongue)?

Members suggesting taper schedules is less popular in TDS than in other forums (look in Other Drugs for a lot of Suboxone information), and the standard advice here is really to speak about it with a medical professional before you do it.

With that said, 16mg a day is a LOT of Suboxone, and I don't think that you'd really need that much. Some people can transition onto Suboxone and feel little (what I like to call) "background withdrawals," whereas others need a few days to adjust to the Suboxone (and will still feel a little rattled from the full-agonist withdrawal going on underneath). However, I've seen people doing over a bundle of heroin a day transfer over to 4mg Suboxone without much pain at all. You won't really know until you try it, because every habit is different, every person is different, every withdrawal is different. Only common rule is that you do NOT take the Subxone too soon, or you risk going into percipitated withdrawal (if you don't know what this is, just trust me that it's bad). For oxycodone, you'd probably want to wait 20-24 hours to be safe.

If it were me, I'd probably take 4mg at 24 hours free of oxy, wait 2 hours and then take another 2mg if I was still feeling bad, and then repeat this again if necessary. Once I felt stable, I'd take another 4mg 12 hours later, another 4mg in 24 hours, and then 2mg one a day for another day or two.

Taking Suboxone for 4-5 days isn't long enough to have to worry about Suboxone withdrawal, and it will be just long enough to get ya through the oxycodone kick. There will be some withdrawal symptoms still going on after that (yawning, insomnia, sneezing), but they are manageable. Of course you could stay on the Suboxone longer if you really think you should, but bear in mind that after two weeks or so, you'd be looking at a unique WD to get free from that.

Again, us BLers aren't doctors and just "people who have done this too many times," so keep that in mind.

With respect to actually getting through WD, one thing that I wish I had not done was, ironically enough, read too much about withdrawal online. Don't get me wrong, it's good to know what can help relieve the symptoms and whatnot, but you also run the risk of creating "phantom symptoms" in yourself - reading about something online and then through "power of suggestion," feeling like it exists in your withdrawal when it really does not. As well, there's a lot of hype online about just how terrible withdrawal is, and if this is all you're focusing on, you can really intimidate yourself.

Just try and stay busy and not think too much about it. It's going to be different and you'll probably miss the roxies, but think about your child and your other reasons for getting through this. Especially if you can use the Suboxone successfully, you can easily be out of opiate hell by next week and start moving on with your life. Which will be great, right?

 

[TheLuckiest]

Thanks for the advice, Red.

The Suboxone I have taken (and will be taking, hopefully) were the 8mg sublingual films. I'd discovered a secret to getting maximum absorption that I want people to know about... I would set an alarm for 20-30 minutes before I needed to wake up in the morning. I'd get up, brush my teeth and drink a little water, then go back to sleep for 30 minutes with a strip under my tongue. I never felt like I was getting good absorption while awake, and this solved the problem.

After reading your comment about 16mg being "a lot", I realized I'd forgotten a key piece of info: The last dose of Suboxone I took was isolated. It was 2 leftover strips that I'd carried for months in my wallet, and I took them as a last resort one morning before work when I had nothing else. Not only were they several months expired, but they'd been in my wallet or truck for several weeks during a hot summer. Looking back, I'm sure they weren't full strength.

I apologize for the misinformation.

8mg was usually my normal starting dose. I could start a period of Sub use by taking 8mg for 2-3 days. Once it built up ing system, I could usually maintain at 4mg per day. Looking back, I was SO stupid. I'd been taking nothing but Suboxone for several weeks, and my dosage started becoming less important. One day I looked up and I hadn't dosed in 4 days, and I didn't feel terrible. I had some mild w/d symptoms, but they were tolerable. Instead of seeing that as an opportunity to jump off and start over clean, I saw it as an opportunity to get high since Bupe wasn't blocking my receptors.

I'm fairly certain I can start with 8mg daily until I get it built up in my system, but I'm not sure where to go from there. Should I drop once a week? Every 3 days? 1mg drops? .5mg drops? I know there's no set formula, but I'd like to know what's worked for others.

I also apologize if this should have gone in OD... I assumed it would get more response in TDS. Feel free to move it if you'd like.

 

[TheLuckiest]

One more thing to add:

A few days ago the only thing I could find was 15 10mg methadone tablets. Unfortunately, due to my stupid tolerance, 50mg was required to keep me comfortable. I took 50mg Tuesday morning, spread 50mg out Wednesday, and I've got 50mg left for tomorrow before I have to find something else.

Would 3 days of methadone make my withdrawals any less severe? It's my first time taking it. 50mg a day has kept me on my feet. There's no euphoria, but I have a slight body high and I'm tired. If I were to stretch my last 50mg out over the next few days, would it minimize my withdrawal symptoms at all?

I'm debating just going CT, even with my situation. If the methadone will help at all, I'm just going cold turkey. I'd rather deal with a week of mild w/d symptoms NOW, than deal with 24/7 stress about copping enough to scrape by until I can find enough Suboxone to taper.

 

[Lady Codone]

ACUTE WITHDRAWAL PHASE

loperamide (Imodium)--a godsend for the gastrointestinal aspects of w/d. may require several times the normal dose.

DXM (low dose as needed)--purported to ease opiate withdrawals. Use responsibly, as it can create problems of its own.
(Kratom can also work wonders, but has addictive potential of its own).

Sleep aid/muscle relaxant: valerian root, doxylamine, kava, passionflower (the latter of which has been shown to help opiate withdrawals)

Anti-nausea agents: ginger, peppermint tea, Dramamine/Benadryl

Analgesic: APAP, ibuprofen, naproxen, aspirin, etc.

Mood/cognition: SAMe, 5-HTP, St. John's wort (or a prescription antidepressant if needed). Check interactions first.

Give yourself time to recover. Opiate withdrawal is no different than the flu or another serious illness. Pushing yourself too hard during this time will only worsen your symptoms. Tell your loved ones what's going on and ask for their support. Don't try to do this on your own or you'll most likely fail. Get plenty of bed rest, use heat/ice packs, drink plenty of fluids and sleep as much as you can.

POST-ACUTE TIPS

*Daily exercise: even if it's just walking to the mailbox, do something physically challenging each day. Jogging, walking, swimming and other aerobic workouts are best for boosting endorphins.

*Healthy eating: Forgo fast food, sweets and other junk foods for healthier options like whole grains, lean meat, fresh fruits/vegetables and healthy oils (Omega-3's). Eating 6 small meals per day instead of 3 large ones helps keep your blood sugar even to swings in mood and energy.

*Avoid other substances of abuse. This includes alcohol, tobacco, pot and anything else you may use in an abusive manner. Maybe later you'll be able to smoke a joint or have a beer occasionally, but now is not the time to try. This also means staying away from the people and places that trigger your urge to use.

*Seek social stimulation: Boredom and loneliness are an addict's worst enemies. Even when you don't feel like it, get dressed up and go spend time with a friend or family member. You'll feel better after you did.

*Get a hobby. What were you interested in BEFORE drugs? You don't even have to be good at something to consider it a hobby. Try to find others with similar interests and go to town!

*Reward yourself for meeting your goals. And no, this doesn't mean reward yourself w/ drugs. Go see that movie you wanted to see or spend a day at an amusement park--whatever you want as long as it's a sober activity.

*Know that relapse is a part of recovery. It does not make you a failure. What makes you a failure is using a single relapse to justify futher drug abuse If you fall off the wagon, dust yourself off and get right back on. Admit your mistake and move forward.

~(Forgive me if I'm stepping out of bounds. I just quit a 3.5 year daily pod tea habit cold turkey about 3 months ago, so I feel your pain! )~

 

[herbavore]

Great posts, Lady Codone and Red! I can't add any advice about the taper, OP, but I did want to step in for the kind words. You are very courageous and wise to be doing this. I truly hope that the motivation this new life, your beautiful son, has given you, gives you the strength to follow through when it gets tough. Being a new parent is an incredibly stressful time of life so you will need to get support for that wherever you can. Congratulations on being a new father and deciding to tackle your addiction so that you can be the best father you can be.