Ketamine salts solubility

[MedicinalUser247]

I actually have another question about the new PCP analogs. Would Methylene Dioxy Phencyclidine and Methylene Dioxy Rolicyclidine feel more like PCP or would it feel more like MDMA ?

 

[Skorpio]

Putting a methylynedioxy on a molecule unlike amphetamine will not make it more like MDMA.

Can you please keep your hypothetical posts in a single thread to clutter up the forum less? Thanks.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

But the molecule is not hypothetical. There's actually some information about it on Wiki. Check it out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylenedioxyphencyclidine

 

[sekio]

The only hard part in making it is obtaining the Bromobenzene to make it because it's a watched chemical.

oh sweet summer child, you have clearly never been in a lab before...

you also need piperidine (which is watched) and the ability to do either a lithiation (to make phenyllithium) or a Grignard, both of which require inert atmosphere and strict dry conditions, and are usually conducted in diethyl ether....

Curiously MD-PCP is apparently active, but nothing special: still just a dissociative, [ref]

The related compounds 3,4-MD-PCP (NMDAR Ki = 62.8 nM) [..] also have high affinities for NMDAR with modest to low affinities at monoamine transporters (Table 1), and all show affinities at sigma-1 and sigma-2 (Wallach 2014). These compounds illustrate that electron donating substituents in the 3-position led to an increase or did not alter affinity for NMDAR relative to PCP. 3,4-MD-PCP is active in humans inducing dissociative effects via parenteral and oral routes at doses from 5–20 mg (HCl salt)

The paper also notes that 3,4-MD-PCE and 3,4-MD-PCPr would also be active.

Also, the reason PCPy is "more sedating" is because it is only a NMDAR antagonist - PCP and its analogues are also dopamine reuptake inhibitors (stimulants),

If you want a review of PCP analogues, Jason Wallach is the man you want to look for publications from. (He's also Hammilton Morris' chemist buddy "as seen on TV").
Here is the Sci-Hub link for the paper in case you are unaware of Sci-Hub.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I THINK we had words about using Wiki (this is actually a Wiki clone) as a reference. The 2 references ON that page do NOT cover it.

So goodbye.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I discussed plug-ins with an admin and the computer says NO. The reason is security. All of the plug-ins only host the viewer on the host BBS, the rest sits on the server of the maker.

I'm STILL pretty jure their is just a JS that doesn't use ANY external access. It was used by a company that supplied a huge array of building blocks and it was just 4 files in a subdirectory. It even had the names of the two guys that wrote it and they were SO pleased to receive their first piece of 'fan mail' but it's still rather a lot of code and I suppose since our admins work for nothing, we cannot expect them to either presume the code is secure nor REALLY take the whole thing apart to learn and to ensure it doesn't leak.

I think it's a real shame since it would speed up learning so much, but as things stand, such things will not be added to BL in the foreseeable future. Nobody's fault, but we have to be certain that BLers feel secure here.

 

[sekio]

> Otherwise my favorite nitrate.. nitrous oxide. LOL !
Nitrous oxide, N₂O, is a nitrogen oxide but not a nitrate - nitrates definitionally contain either the NO₃^- ion (inorganic nitrates) or a -ONO₂ group (organic nitrates i.e. an ester of nitric acid). This is not the same as a nitro group/compound, which is NO₂.

> There ARE quite a few medicines with nitro groups.
Nitroglycerin, the explosive - I'm sorry - glyceryl trinitrate (we can't scare old ladies now) - is given as a vasodilator for lowering blood pressure.

Also, the nitro group is actually symmetrical, both the oxygens have a "one and a half" bond to the nitrogen, as opposed to a single and a double bond.
[ref]

 

[Rectify]

Depending on whether you believe more in molecular orbital theory or linear combination of atomic orbital theory. You can't really have a 1/2 charge. Fe does have a + 2/3rds charge, based on the valencies of the quarks from which it is composed, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

BARELY_LEGAL
1-phenyl-2-methylamino-3,3,3-trifluoropropane

Bioassayed by anyone yet?

 

[sekio]

Depending on whether you believe more in molecular orbital theory or linear combination of atomic orbital theory. You can't really have a 1/2 charge. Fe does have a + 2/3rds charge, based on the valencies of the quarks from which it is composed, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

Where the hell did you learn chemistry? Who the fuck do you think you are trying to fool?

LCAO is a method to calculate molecular orbitals and relies on molecular orbital theory. It's not an either or situation.

And where specifically does Fe have a +⅔ charge? When was that even mentioned? Can you provide examples, or further elaborations?

"based on the valencies of the quarks from which it is composed" is unfortunately total bullshit. The nucleus of Fe (iron) is composed of the same protons and neutrons that any other element is made of (of which both are made of the same up and down quarks, nothing more: a proton is always two up quarks and a down quark, and a neutron is always two down quarks and an up quark. Any other arrangement of quarks produces a different subatomic particle, by definition. Also, quarks don't really have "valencies", they can either pair off or form triplets, but that's it.) And electrons are leptons, they're not made of quarks at all, and only care about the electric charge from protons, they don't even "know" about quarks.

Also, this thing called quantum mechanics (it's been around for a little while, and is slightly relevant when discussing things like electrons and atoms - you should read about it sometime, you could learn a thing or two). It talks about how electrons are so small, and move so fast, that they don't really exist in any one point until you measure them somehow: until then you can only estimate a "cloud" of likely positions. So it's entirely possible for an electron to be "half shared" in a bond.

Besides, partial charges and partial pi bonds are widely accepted, standard things in chemistry.

Although, these partial charges/bonds are only seen within adjacent atoms in individual molecules - any particular molecular entity can only lose or gain integer numbers of electrons, as the seperate molecules are too far apart (and in constant motion unless incredibly cold) and partial delocalization cannot occur over long distances.

(This is all pearls before swine but those who put up with your foolish behaviour deserve some potential free chemistry education in an otherwise pretty masturbatory thread.)

Bioassayed by anyone yet?

No, or someone would have posted about it.
The same as almost every fucking other one of your doodles: the only place they exist so far is as images, online.

Have you ever actually held a roundbottom flask in your hands? Do you know what "29/42" ,means? Could you tell me the difference between a plain packed, Vigreaux. Hempel, or Oldershaw distillation column? Done a vacuum distillation? Run a TLC? How about a GC? FTIR? HPLC? NMR? How about your first synthesis over 10g scale? Air-free reactions? Mechanical stirring? Could you tell me how to operate a rotary evaporator, without breaking it or dropping the flask in the water bath? Where is your preferred supplier for reagents? Solvents? Lab disposables (pipettes, gloves, wipes, vials, test tubes, etc)? Compressed gases? Dry ice? Lab equipment? (Freebie: eBay is an acceptable answer) Do you pay up front or with purchase orders (net 30 days)? Do you have a labcoat and gloves (nitrile pref.)? A fire extinguisher? A safety shower? A fume hood? Where do you store your reagents? How about temperature sensitive ones? How about reactive/stinky ones? Do you have someone to assist you who knows what to do in an emergency? Could they help you with a synthesis? Do you have a ±0.1mg scale?

No? You're a guy with a copy of ChemDraw and a dream to be the next Sasha Shulgin?

You have a way to go. Don't post about synthesis then, friendo.

 

[Rectify]

SLICK_RICK
1-(2,2-difluoro-1,3-benzodioxole-5-yl)-2-methylamino-3,3,3-trifluoropropane

WET_WILLIE
1-(3-(trifluoromethyl)-4-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl)-2-methylamino-3,3,3-trifluoropropane

The University Of Georgia, Athens.
December, 2001.
Bachelor of Science in Chemistry.

Massachusetts Institute Of Technology.
Fall, 2020.
Certificate of Drug & Medical Device Development.

 

[sekio]

Those your qualifications? Here's mine:

High school (REDACTED High School, 20REDACTED)
Chemist, private company, 7 years (2012-2019)

In fact, I have a fun story. We hired Dr. Ajay REDACTED, who was a Ph.D from a renowned American university, had all sorts of glowing qualifications, Eli Lilly award for this-and-that, the whole meal with fries.
We first told him to make 100g - 1000g of a compound called nopinone, from beta-pinene. [ref]. After all, it is a simple synthesis from common, cheap materials (beta-pinene is like $7 a liter = 850g - after all it is approx 30% of typical pine turpentine (balance is the isomer alpha-pinene))

First problem: Dr. Ajay is what I like to call a "book chemist". He is very well versed in the reading, but following through on applying skills and thinking critically was not really his strong suit.
Second problem: Dr. Ajay has only ever worked on like, 5mg of some estrogen analogue. So he figures to start big with 100mg.
Problem the Third: Dr. Ajay has never done an alkene cleavage like this before. He, I suppose, hits the literature and comes up with a synthesis! Great. The problem is his synthesis was this:
Start with 25mL roundbottom flask (no cooling bath, why bother on such a small scale?) with a magnetic stir bar, 10ml acetone as solvent. Then add 100mg β-pinene.
Next, we add our oxidising agent. Several equivalents of potassium permanganate will do nicely, he thinks, because it has been used for alkene cleavages for ages. (Correct reasoning, but an exercise for the reader: do you see the problem that he has just created? Hint: Remember the fire triangle.)
Finally, we need to catalyse the reaction, so let's add a few drops of some 1N hydrochloric acid, and, wait, what the fuck! It's on fire! The flask is shooting a jet of flame out the top! (which would only leaves a scorch mark and a bunch of manganese dioxide to clean up if left to burn out) but training tells him to empty a blast from the dry powder extinguisher.

After cleaning the tremendous mess from his hood, what does he do next? Well, what any good chemist would do. He repeats the reaction as before, to the same result. (Maybe it was a fluke the first time?)

Later on, presumably after many other comedic mishaps, he comes into the office with a 4mL vial about a quarter full. "I've made your nopinone!" he says proudly. My boss asks where the other 999 grams are. His face kind of goes blank and he is at a loss for words. (I guess he honestly didn't believe we needed so much - but its close cousin verbenone is dosed at 8-16g per tree, every 10m.)
He never did make the nopinone.

The final straw was when we gave him a complex oxidation mixture derived from blowing air into a terpene at elevated temperature (advanced synthesis I know), that on GC had 200+ compounds, and asked him to use column chromatography to seperate it.
Well, he did run a column indeed. But he didn't bother to check his work. He gave me a tray of 50 vials to check and I run every 10th one on a GC as a sanity check,
Vial 1? Blank. Vial 10? Blank. Vial 20? Blank. Vial 30? Blank. Vial 40? Has one compound (would have been the first to elute). Vial 50? That same compound. He ran the column, but instead of visualizing bands with a UV light (cool trick, needs special silica tho) or checking his work, he collected 50 fractions and called it a day, leaving 98% of the material still on the silica which he presumably discarded. (he needed more like 500 fractions).
He literally wasted his time and ours and we got nothing useful out of it, because he was hopeless in a lab. Piled Higher and Deeper indeed. (Wiki: "B.S." stands for "bullshit", "M.S." stands for "More of the Same" (or "More Shit"), and "Ph.D." stands for "Piled Higher and Deeper". )

He was fired shortly after that.

Degrees mean nothing in this day and age.

If you were ever in my lab, you'd either not be allowed to touch anything, or I'd force chemistry learning upon you anyway.

 

[Rectify]

I would love to learn lab skills someday, but what I really do is simply come up with new chemical targets. I don't synthesize anything. It doesn't pay anything. I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

I'd also like to learn more about chemistry. Most of what I know is more on the pharmacological side of things. Not chemistry, but I'd like to learn more.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

What are the protein targets for any of the compounds you have drawn?

 

[Rectify]

Dopamine, 5-HT, Epinephrine, and nor-Adrenaline Receptors? What do you think.

Some drugs are discovered by protein target synthesis using X-ray crystallography, but that is NOT my modus operandi. I focus purely on the chemical side, and I get results (sometimes). My method is by the book, PiHKAL: A Chemical Love Story, by the late Alexander & Ann Shulgin. Of course, if a monkey on a typewriter doodled 1,000 Kekule structures, they would be bound to get at least a hit or two. Believe it or not, I hit some home runs here. Yes, I have tried a lot of these (I think). But given the shady legality of my area of interest (amphetamines and the occasional tryptamine), the ways and means that I come across my creations are shady as well. Basically, if it is not yet technically illegal, someone will test it and make it available to me. Or maybe I'm delusional. Or both. You can think whatever you want, but you really don't know. And I don't care. Also, they won't give me methylenedioxyphenyl anything. The only reason I am divulging this 411 now is that I am probably no longer using that method of drug sourcing, which is fine by me. In the end, I'd rather have a bottle of Adderall than 3,5-dimethoxy-4-chloroamphetamine whatever. My curiosity, which killed the cat, has been quenched. And I am forever grateful.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Dopamine, 5-HT, Epinephrine, and nor-Adrenaline Receptors? What do you think.

Some drugs are discovered by protein target synthesis using X-ray crystallography, but that is NOT my modus operandi. I focus purely on the chemical side, and I get results (sometimes). My method is by the book, PiHKAL by the late Alexander & Ann Shulgin. Of course, if a monkey on a typewriter doodled 1,000 Kekule structures, they would be bound to get at least a hit or two. Believe it or not, I hit some home runs here. Yes, I have tried a lot of these (I think). But given the shady legality of my area of interest (amphetamines and the occasional tryptamine), the ways and means that I come across my creations are shady as well. Basically, if it is not yet technically illegal, someone will test it and make it available to me. Or maybe I'm delusional. Or both. You can think whatever you want, but you really don't know. And I don't care. Also, they won't give me methylenedioxyphenyl anything. The only reason I am divulging this 411 now is that I am probably no longer using that method of drug sourcing, which is fine by me. In the end, I'd rather have a bottle of Adderall than 3,5-dimethoxy-4-chloroamphetamine whatever. My curiosity, which killed the cat, has been quenched. And I am forever grateful.

Which compounds have been made for you and by which lab?

 

[Rectify]

Tons of them.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

No like specifically which ones? What was their activity? Which lab did the synth?

 

[Rectify]

Well, I invented a new class, the 5th order divine or nearly divine N-allyl amphetamines. I am proudest of this one:

ALEXANDER
N-allyl-1-phenyl-1-methoxy-2-aminopropane

^--a stimulant

And This One Was The Most Sensual, But It Burned Like No Other When Insuffulated.

JASON
N-allyl-1-(3,4-dichlorophenyl)-1-methoxy-2-aminopropane

High dosages are required.

Other than that, my all time favorite drug turned out to be EVELYN aka N-ethylamphetamine, and JESUS aka 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine was off the charts good, but may have made my thoughts permanently broadcast telepathically. NO LIE.

Also, I found out that the ICE form of amphetamine hydrochloride is extremely spastic but also very performance enhancing physically.

Those are the highlights. YMMV.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Well, I invented a new class, the 5th order divine or nearly divine N-allyl amphetamines. I am proudest of this one:

ALEXANDER
N-allyl-1-phenyl-1-methoxy-2-aminopropane

And This One Was The Most Sensual, But It Burned Like No Other When Insuffulated.

Did someone synthesize it for you? Did you try it if so and what was the activity? Which lab made it?