• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

(+)-Ketamine - another MDA?

/\ by the time you wrote the above I had already tested the combo. Noted advantage was that I felt a bit less like sitting down and a tad more euphoric and talkative (go figure ;)). Again I only used a low dose, say 30mg or so (and only a low dose of amph. as wel). Also had 3 beers over the course of the evening, spaced over 5 hours or so. When I got home I thought I'd examine that S-isomer in more detail... even low-dose K and alcohol usually give me severe nausea (which is why I don't do it any more), but I thought I might as well try it with the S-isomer. And I didn't get much in the way of nausea even after snorting 100mg... which was a journey into fantasyland and I felt it might be fun to combine this with extended sexual activity (my partner was not there, alas). I did have some residual drowsiness combined with sleeplessness after it wore off, though.

I intend to combine S-K with methylone and at another time with MDMA in the future, purely for pleasure purposes. Somehow the "normal" 50/50 K makes me feel too much like I am about to die for me to even consider anything remotely sexual, even at low doses.

Something about this S-isomer that I rate highly is that it totally banishes any feelings of anxiety in me, which makes it ideal at very low doses for nights out.
And I appreciate that it appears to lift my spirits for several days in a row... since I started dabblign with this 3 days ago I haven't had my bad mood of the few days prior. Mind you, I've been smoking less cannabis and the weather has finally cleared.

The one thing that makes me feel iffy with this drug ist that I can see how it can be abused - because it feels so good and because it kills any anxiety almost in the fashion of a benzo.
 
The one thing that makes me feel iffy with this drug ist that I can see how it can be abused

So can I - personal experience with it so far, after access to large amounts of it, had me consuming far too much on a daily basis (in excess of a gram a day, by IM, for a month). It's taken a while for me to get a handle on my intake and I'd bet a lot of people in my situation would end up in the same place
 
I'd have to agree. I gave the vial of racemic to the lady to hold onto, as it keeps me from being tempted, but I've not had any problems going after the S-isomer as I really don't like it. It sits in a drawer and I haven't touched it in a few weeks now. R-ketamine is now high on my 'I want it' list.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
is it safe to say the addictive draw (psychologically) comes from the warm and fuzzy embrace that the R isomer provides?

The S isomer is also warm and somewhat fuzzy even if not fully anaesthetic. I think what provides the strongest psychological pull toward it for me is thatit feels as peaceful and anxiety-free as alprazolam while at teh same time leaving my cognitive skills intact - unlike alprazolam, which dumbs me right down.

Having said that, I have only used approx. 200-250mg of it so far, all in the space fo four days. I then decided that it's best left alone for a while. I could have seen myself snort it all in a week though, easily. I just didn't wanna find out how I'd feel after that.

But for me the S isomer has more addiction potential than the S/R mixture.
 
morninggloryseed said:
It sits in a drawer and I haven't touched it in a few weeks now
If I sent you a stamped and self-addressed envelope......;)

100mg of S-iso' up the snoz, after 125mg MDMA and some decent hash, got me to a very special place the other week (and has seriously tested my resistance to the temptation to repeat since :\ ).
 
Optical isomers
After initial animal research showed potential advantages
for (+)ketamine, human research with the ketamine
enantiomers commenced. (+)Ketamine produced more
effective anaesthesia than the racemate or (-)ketamine.
More psychic emergence reactions occurred after (-)ket-
amine than the racemate or (+)ketamine.

In a more recent study, White et al. found that
(+)ketamine was approximately four times as potent as
(-)ketamine. (+)Ketamine and the racemate produced
similar EEG changes, but (-)ketamine produced a lesser
degree of EEG slowing. The lesser degree of EEG
response to (—)ketamine seemed to correlate with its
lower hypnotic and analgesic potency, and its lower
affinity for opiate receptors.
http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/36/2/186.pdf

Liu J, Ji XQ, Zhu XZ.

Shanghai Institute of Materia Medica, Shanghai Institutes for Biological Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, 555 Zu Chong Zhi Road, Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park, Pudong, Shanghai 201203, China.

Ketamine is a racemic mixture containing equal parts of (+)-ketamine and (-)-ketamine. The ketamine enantiomorphs are different in anesthesia and psychic emergence reactions after anesthesia. Therefore, (+)-ketamine was compared with racemic ketamine in a number of randomized studies in volunteers and patients. However, their relations remain controversial. In the present studies, the psychic emergence reactions after injection of (+/-)-ketamine and (+)-ketamine were compared in mice. At equimolar doses, the (+)-isomers elicited episodes of hypnosis nearly 1.4-fold more potent than those of the racemic ketamine. After the administration of equihypnotic doses of (+)-ketamine and (+/-)-ketamine, the posthypnotic stimulation of locomotor activity, stereotype behavior and 5-HT-induced head-twitch response by the (+)-enantiomorph was significantly less intense than that of racemic ketamine. In receptor binding test, (+)-ketamine showed a higher affinity for NMDA receptor than that of (+/-)-ketamine, while (+)-ketamine and (+/-)-ketamine showed no affinity for dopamine D2 and serotonin 5-HT2 receptor. These results suggest that the (+)-ketamine has fewer posthypnotic side effects than (+/-)-ketamine when (+)-ketamine and (+/-)-ketamine were administered at equihypnotic dosages and that dopamine D2 and serotonin 5-HT2 receptor were not involved in the effects of (+)-ketamine and (+/-)-ketamine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16289139&dopt=AbstractPlus

The principal disadvantage of the drug, however, is that its use is associated with undesireable psychomimetic effects during and after anaesthesia, so called ‘emergence reactions’. Early human studies of ketamine isomers6 appeared to demonstrate that the S(+) isomer of ketamine produced less psychic emergence reactions than either the R(–) form or the racemic mixture.
http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/96/3/330

Maybe we're looking in the wrong direction...
 
thats what i said in the beginning of the thread...
i find it quite amusing they are testing emergence phenomenon in rats 8(
 
kidamnesiac said:
i find it quite amusing they are testing emergence phenomenon in rats 8(

They can tell by the number of bewildered faces the rats make at the ceiling.
 
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