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RCs Just a rebound hypotension? Had a massive panic attack (a-PVP, a-PHP)

Indopan

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
76
Rebound hypotension and strong deficiency of iron - my experience

So today I got totally freaked out for about 2 hours.

I got quite hot and somewhat sweatty when inside, felt normal outside. My body got generally weaker and it was harder to speak, not to talk about singing (my voice got weaker). I wasn't physically weak, but only felt weak, because 45kg hand grip with one hand didn't tire my arm significantly. Keep in mind, that by that time I already had anxiety and maybe a little panic attack. Though I managed to pronounce words perfectly well, I couldn't talk for very long without a short pause, but that could have been because I was breathing deeply through my mouth and had subconsciously rejected breathing through nose while talking. My vision was a bit odd outside and things farther away looked blurry. When I went to the mirror, my face was pale. Not pale as white, but it's usually darker, when I washed it with warm water it instantly turned darker (normal color). I noticed my hands were shaking. I also had this odd sensation (a couple of times), as if a drop of water would have fallen on my hand, but I was inside by that time.

It was really hard to catch my pulse, mostly from wrist, maybe two times (well I measured my pulse every 10 seconds :D) from neck and couldn't feel my heart rate from chest, and it was constantly slowing down (not quickly, gradually, but falling not raising). In the beginning I have a couple of odd pin and needle sensations in my chest, but they were really weak and lasted for less than half a second. When I started catching my pulse again, it felt like my heart was beating at irregular strength, but it could have been, that I didn't feel it beating well enough. I had some neck stiffness as well, but I could move my head the whole degree. Also I was constantly moving my fingers and toes, just to make sure it's really not a stroke.

The things that made me worry the most - general weakness, weak voice (both of which are signs of stroke), unable to catch the pulse, some vision blurriness, pale face, sweating.


Now I've never had so strong symptoms from withdrawal, so it made me worry. I had really strong panic attack, so that probably boosted those effects. I took a-PVP and lidocaine combo for maybe 2-3 weeks (not constantly, but most of the days, sleeping for 8-10h practically every night). Yesterday I flushed a-PVP due to tolerance and took a-PHP instead, but without lidocaine.

Now a-PVP probably left my body tonight, because after the case my heart rate was slower than after waking up today or yesterday (when I hadn't done any a-PHP yet). Also I was coming down off some a-PHP by that time.


Could it be, that coming off two physically strong stimulants about the same time caused so strong rebound effects? The thing is, that 2 hours later I have practically no negative feelings, I even feel good and that mild weakness feels relaxed. I had lidocaine in my a-PVP, which explains why I didn't have these feelings during a-PVP period.



My resting heart rate fell from 120 to 90 and now is back to 90-100. It didn't change when I stood up or sit down again.

Generally when I do stimulants, my heart rate is 120-130 during peak, 90-120 when resting and about two days later goes down to 70 (give or take), that's independent of dosage, unless I overdose. Meaning 10mg and 50mg a-PVP both raise my heart rate to 120-130. I have had very mild chest tightness within last couple of weeks when doing stimulants, no significant chest pain (which would raise any alarm, appearing very rarely, lasting under half a second and being so weak it, at most, could have made me alert for 2 seconds).

I've been eating well, drinking a lot. I had a little accident with (huge dose of) a-PHP and my heart rate hitting 180, but that went down to 150 after sitting down and under 120 within half an hour. My heart has handled over 220bpm with 5-APDB unpredictable accident (most likely unknown MAOI effect, which haven't been researched yet) and I had sublingual etizolam (don't have it anymore :( ) which took it down to 90 within 10 minutes (down to 130 within 2 minutes). Even then I had no chest pain, tightness or what else, but I was shaking and it felt a bit odd in a serotonergic way (didn't realize my condition until I touched my chest just out of curiosity).

Less than year ago I had full health check-up in ER, where I went with unbearable stomach pain, which turned out to be hypergastrinemia, but they took several blood tests and did ultrasonography and absolutely everything was perfect, including hr 70bpm and bp 120/70.


I think if it had been an oncoming stroke, I wouldn't feel so good right now, but as I've never experienced such symptoms, I just make sure by asking you.
 
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I forgot to add, that the other a-PHP case happened 2 weeks ago, was just a single of it. And that it's 25C her and I'm the type of person who generally feels way hotter than most of the other people with up to 37.3C being normal body temperature, so maybe stimulants made me feel chillier instead.
 
This sounds precisely like a panic attack. It feels like these things are truly happening due to all kinds of external factors (OD, heart attack, stroke, etc) but it's more than likely just your panic response overacting due to the increase in norepinephrine. Take a cool shower, pop a benzo & get some food, water & rest.
 
Like I told, 2 hours after taking the last dose I was feeling very well and it definitely wasn't simply panic attack. I'm more than sure now, that it was rebound hypotension.

a) I couldn't catch my pulse, which happens when I have low blood pressure.
b) My heart rate was slowing down
c) Panic was triggered by abnormal sweating, weakness of my voice and general body weakness.
d) I forgot to mention, but I had very high blood pressure 2 days ago during a-PVP. I have no signs of high blood pressure whatsoever atm.
e) I never get near vision from panic attack. I've got it from low blood pressure though.
f) After calming down I'd say that "odd vision" was from lightheadness, which I get with low blood pressure.

What I'd attribute to panic attack, though, would be:

a) Paleness. Probably overreacted.
b) Shaky hands.
c) Neck tension.
d) Maybe something else


But I have never had symptoms of low blood pressure from rebound effect before. Only when taking lidocaine alone.
 
Unfortunately general weakness, which I actually developed a couple of days ago, but didn't think of it as that, is from oxygen deprivation. Developed purple fingernails last night, they didn't get dark so no ambulance was involved, this morning they were better at least, which is sign of oxygen deprivation. What I thought to be body buzz in my feet was actually restricted blood flow. Have had purplish nails (not as purple as last night though, but as atm) before and they usually go away within couple of days. Probably had coincidence of multiple side effects.

EDIT:

And I face went pale last night. Looks okay now.

EDIT2:

Caused by iron deficiency. Happened to find help about visual appearance. I knew it could cause purplish fingernails, but thought it was localized blood restriction (to extremities). Comes out it can cause a decreased amount of red blood cells. Shit happens. Was eating well, but probably stimulants affected my metabolism in a certain way so I didn't obtain iron.

EDIT3:

And fingernails are now looking okay and I can feel my heart beating strong again. For past day I couldn't catch my pulse from chest at all, thoguh I usually feel it beating strong when I touch my chest. Think if I hadn't loaded my body with iron I would have ended up with cardiac arrest, because my heart didn't beat stronger even after exercising and I had strong feelings of lack of oxygen.

EDIT4:

Just in case anybody recognizes the symptoms and needs help (the main point of continuing this topic after my problem was resolved), I also had quite bad headache in the morning (which was actually what reminded me of what had happened) which was eased by hydrating and eating, but never really left until after 2 hours of eating (lots of irony food), meaning when food was digested, palms looked like red-white spotted chessboards, fingertips turned dark red and had red strips inside of two fingers from the tip to the end of the finger, but I'm not sure how much it had to do with it. My hands were shaking, I had shaky feeling inside, at one point even my legs were shaking so much it was hard to stand in one position. The most immediate symptom after 2 hours of eating (besides nails turning pink) that I couldn't ignore was, that I finally started getting bowel movements again (had really strong constipation in the morning, well digesting takes lots of oxygen) and within very short time of that my heart started beating WAYYY stronger (before that I couldn't catch it from chest even when concentrating, now I couldn't ignore no matter what when touching my chest), heart rate stayed the same or decreased a bit, I got a big burst of energy, strong mood elevation (felt like I was high, talkactive, interested in moving around, doing things etc, except, that it's still lasting half a day later, but that's actually normal for me, not in mood of talking, moving around or not smiling is what was abnormal in the morning) and after eating don't worry if your symptoms worsen a bit, digesting takes quite a lot of oxygen, it goes away soon. Moving around and staying outside helps.

Well I'd appreciate if everybody would write as many details as they can remember after (serious) incidents. After all, the information would be just as useful as it is now even 2 years later when your Bluelight surfing friend or 20 years later when your child is overdosing. (just keep in mind)
 
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I'm not sure if this could be related, but I discovered and then later investigated a negative after-effect from using a-PPP. It would begin a day or even 2 days after using the a-ppp. Definitely not a wd effect or rebound effect. It was very strong anxiety and disphoria that would last 6+ hours. It was quite alarming because it seemed to come out of nowhere and felt uniquely unpleasant. A benzodiazepine seemed to help somewhat.

I later discovered that a-PPP is metabolized in the body to an alpha hydroxy compound which has potent peripheral adrenergic activity (think ephedrine, with the alpha hydroxy, vs methamphetamine with out it). I don't have the research paper link handy, but I can go find it. Perhaps the related a-pvp/php cathinones also undergo a similar metabolism in some people. The thing that amazed me is how long it took for this metabolite to start showing its effects. Just throwing it out there, maybe its not related to your panic attack.
 
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