Misc Jumping off Effexor XR 150mg?

[AminoAcid]

So I managed to get rid of the Suboxone 12mg (and thankyou so much for everyone who helped!!!), but I have ONE demon left: Effexor 150mg daily. That son-of-a-bitch.

It does shit all for my depression and I'm still really pissed off that the GP who put me on it failed to mention that this shit is hard to get away from (doctors are willing to throw this dung at anyone for any reason). It also nearly led to my death when mixing with other chemicals, and I'm also worried about the reports of SNRI neurotoxicity. So I want out! NOW! I remember how freaking happy I used to be without this crap and it's really only a bad break-up that put me on it.

PROBLEM 1: Whenever I miss a dose the withdrawal symptoms are fucking wretched. It's not a real "body" withdrawal, but a "brain/neuro" withdrawal (which is sort of worse, I can handle physical pain/discomfort well, but not really neurological pain). The nausea is *EPIC* and total (it doesn't waver at all), coupled with dizziness, brain-zaps, anxiety, and strong irritability.

Over the past week I have only taken 75mg/daily instead of the 150, just so I could start the process. So far absolutely no negative symptoms at all.

PROBLEM 2: From doing internet searching I can find practically no-one who has managed to get off this shit. *Everyone* mentions they tried but the symptoms were too horrible so they went back on a low dose (usually ~37.5mg) and stayed there for years.

Please tell me someone here has managed to beat this particular beast?? And that someone knows *anything* that can help in the process. And yes I'm willing to tranquilize myself to acheive this. Anything? How long will the pain last?

PS: Does anyone know the mechanism of SNRI withdrawal? Is it simply a serotonin deficiency? If so then wouldn't taking serotonin pre-cursors like tryptophan and 5-HT help, if not completely offset, withdrawals??

Currently my plan is to drink myself senseless for 3 days coupled with any benzos I can get, and some dramamine for the nausea. Thoughts?

 

[sekio]

Best way to get off a SNRI is gradual reduction of dose. The withdrawal is a lot more complex than a simple "defeciency" and is more like a combination of desensitized receptors, low blood levels of 5HT/NE, and your body's natural rebound to the drugs - taking more neurotransmitter precursors may help but it certainly won't solve everything.

Going on a benzo and alcohol bender won't help in the long term. You're not going to drop an Effexor habit in less than a week. And doing so cold turkeey is asking for a terrible time.

Just keep your chin up and keep gradually reducing your dose. Eventually you'll be free of the menace.

 

[AminoAcid]

^^ Thanks for the reply.

Yeah that's what everyone said about the suboxone, taper down slowly, and this would probably be best for most people. BUT I have time right now to get off the shit without having to work/college at the same time, so I want to get rid of it all, NOW. Later withdrawals would conflict with obligations.

Why don't you think it's possible to drop effexor in a week? Do the withdrawals last much loner??

The Effexor withdrawal arsenal: 700mL Jack Daniels, lots of 5-HTP capsules, LSD, tryptophan, melatonin, and hopefully a handful of benzos if the doctor is a nice guy tommorrow. Will also try to find some L-tyrosine supplement to help with the norepinephrine.

 

[tokenname]

^^ Thanks for the reply.

Yeah that's what everyone said about the suboxone, taper down slowly, and this would probably be best for most people. BUT I have time right now to get off the shit without having to work/college at the same time, so I want to get rid of it all, NOW. Later withdrawals would conflict with obligations.

Why don't you think it's possible to drop effexor in a week? Do the withdrawals last much loner??

The Effexor withdrawal arsenal: 700mL Jack Daniels, lots of 5-HTP capsules, LSD, tryptophan, melatonin, and hopefully a handful of benzos if the doctor is a nice guy tommorrow. Will also try to find some L-tyrosine supplement to help with the norepinephrine.

i c/t'd off of 150 mg. i'd probably been on it for 6 months.
i wouldn't put me through that again.
i've always been able to work thru w/d..
and i've been thru some rough ones.
there was no way i could work thru effexor w/d.
it was almost completely mental..besides some belly issues.
i've never felt anything like that..
i could not put two thoughts together..
i couldn't process anything.
ppl would be talking to me..but there was nothing there..
like charlie brown when adults were talking.
it's no joke.
the only way to keep me from taking more..
was saying to myself..no f'ing way am i ever doing this again.
imo AD's are horrible drugs..and don't even work for most ppl..
i'm not always happy..but i'm happy not to be on one.
it's obviously possible to c/t..but you're gonna have to hang in
when most ppl won't/can't. i don't remember if i drank during..
but i sure as hell wouldn't blame you for it.
i missed an entire week of work..thankfully, they liked me (at that time, anyway)
beyond a week..there was rebound depression..insomnia.
but the worst of it was over after 6 or 7 days.
the smartest way would be to follow sekio's advice.
good luck w/e you choose to do.

 

[The.Ghost]

I was in a similar situation too once. Long story short, the stuff made me suicidal and not taking it...the less said the better. I got off the fast and furious way.

The first thing you need to know about venlafaxine (Effexor) is that the ratio of serotonin to norepinephrine reuptake inhibition is dose-dependent. In other words, it's effectively a different drug at different dosages. This is what makes tapering a roller coaster ride.

Second, venlafaxine metabolizes primarily into desvenlafaxine (Pristiq). In the prescribing info for venlafaxine, it states that venlafaxine and desvenlafaxine are “pharmacologically approximately equiactive and equipotent”, although desvenlafaxine seems to have a ceiling dose of 50 mg / day. In other words, you are effectively on Effexor and Pristiq at the same time right now, so you'll have to get off of two drugs, not one.

I got off of 225 mg / day Effexor XR by switching to Pristiq and Prozac, then just Prozac, with plenty of weed to keep me from offing myself. Here's the breakdown:

• Day 0: 225 mg Effexor XR
• Days 1-5: 150 mg Effexor XR
• Days 6, 7: 150 mg Effexor XR + 20 mg fluoxetine
• Days 8-10: 20 mg fluoxetine
• Days 11-15: 50 mg Pristiq + 60 mg fluoxetine
• Days 16-27: 50 mg Pristiq every third day + 60 mg fluoxetine daily
• Days 28+ : 40 mg fluoxetine, a final 50 mg dose of Pristiq on day 35

This route isn't perfect, obviously. It did avoid the crazy ratio changes, but I went from SNRI + SNRI --> SNRI + SSRI --> SSRI. My norepinephrine plowed into the ground and I was manic, depressed, and mixed nearly every day for weeks (I have BP-II) starting when I cut the Effexor out. I don't know how many times I would have offed myself if it weren't for the endless supply of weed I had. And of course, I was addicted to fluoxetine at the end of it all, but that one was MUCH easier to get off of.

I'd avoid the alcohol, because that is pretty well correlated with suicide, and trust me, you'll be thinking about it a lot.

Since it sounds like you have time, read the prescribing info (the 40-some page versions) for Effexor and Pristiq.

Feel free to PM me anytime. I've fought this devil as well.

edit: forgot to add, I have heard of one other way to get off of this shit. Dump out the beads from the capsule(s) and count them out. Take one bead less each day. Slow and steady, but probably still not painless, and it sounds like you want off fast.

 

[tokenname]

@ op..plz remember w/d is different for everyone.
it's amazingly individual how we all handle stress and triggers..
i never once felt suicidal while on effexor or during the w/d.
i don't allow myself to go there.
but..
i may have felt homicidal towards my prescribing MD.
honestly..i believe if you know what you're getting into..
what to expect..
and you're strong enough to remember that everything
is temporary..
anything's possible.
but only the individual knows themselves well enough
to know what they can and can't take.
you should speak to your physician ahead of time.
we don't know what your physical/mental health is like.
most importantly, be honest with yourself about what you
can handle.
i'm pretty tough..you know- for a girl .
i would put me thru any benzo or opiate w/d countless times..
before i'd do this again.

 

[sekio]

Yeah from what I have heard SNRI withdrawal is right up there with higher dose BZD and alcohol withdraweals in terms of the utter pain it inflicts. Opioid w/d seems to really be the lesser of all the evils when it comes right down to it...

 

[Captain Brewster]

Just a thought, could the serotonin precursors the OP wants to use be dangerous when mixed with an SNRI?

My psychologist and doc want me to get on AD's, mainly due to my anxiety ive had since my father passed away earlier in the year.

After reading about them I don't think it's worth the risk of becoming worse off than I allready am.

 

[Tommyboy]

Jumping off the suboxone at the higher dose is different than jumping off a SNRI like that. Opiate/opioid withdrawal sucks and all, but it's mostly physical symptoms as well as anxiety and insomnia. SNRI and SSRI withdrawal is more of a 'mindfuck' though, and there really is no reason to jump off at a high dose without tapering properly. It's not something like opioid withdrawal where you can just bite the bullet and get through a bad week.

I was on zoloft for a little while and when I wanted a change of meds I was on effexor but only for 1 month, then switched to lexapro for close to a year followed by wellbutrin. When I stopped the wellbutrin I was getting bad withdrawals so started taking lexapro to help deal with it and to taper. I got off of it and it wasn't too bad, but tapering was the only reason why I managed it as well as I did.

As for how I tapered, well it was a while ago and I didn't know much about drugs back then, but I knew the concept of tapering. Basically I just took as little as needed when I needed it, and got off like that. The brain zaps, nausea, and vertigo were my main symptoms. The brain zaps sucked, but the vertigo made for a really unpleasant time and made my nausea way worse.

 

[Allein]

Hi AminoAcid,

I've been on that dose for a couple of years, I had intended to cut to 75mg this summer but circumstances were not right and I had to put that on hold.

I'm no big AD fan, I've been through the mill with them like many others, I don't seem to tolerate them well especially SSRIs, but Tricylcics and SNRIs seem to cause me less issues.

Venlafaxine has had a very positive effect on my life and helped me to seek real help and complete a course of CBT and make some really positive changes in my life I've stopped drinking and taking Benzos so on balance I'm glad to have been prescribed it.

I can relate to you desire to be off these drugs but you must ensure you have some support, I'm concerned from your post that you are still in the thrown of depression and that withdrawing from this drug may make things worse, I hope your doctor is helping you with this.

Feel free to PM me any time, I'll be very interested to hear how you get on.

Best Wishes

 

[xxxyyy]

last year, i quit venlafaxine cold turkey, after having taken 300mgs a day for about a year. while i didn't get many of the physical withdrawal symptoms others seem to get, the rebound depression was fucking brutal, easily the worst of my life. the next 10-12 weeks were spent almost entirely in bed, contemplating suicide. it only got better once i started taking selegiline.

 

[AminoAcid]

Just a thought, could the serotonin precursors the OP wants to use be dangerous when mixed with an SNRI?

Thanks for picking up on this Brewster. I just saw a video that said not to use 5-HTP in Effexor withdrawals due to the risk of serotonin syndrome. I've nearly already died once from SS so don't want to ever go through that again.

Thing is thoughm if say you haven't taken Effexor for 3 days, then wouldn't there no longer be any risk of contraindication with 5-HTP?? I mean if you no longer have the SNRI working in your body, wouldn't it be now deficient in serotonin, and hence 5-HTP helpful? Also wouldn't it be helpful in the subsequent depression caused by withdrawal?

So I guess the question basically boils down to: how long after Effexor cessation is 5-HTP safe to take?

 

[ErgicMergic]

Hey Amino, good job on kicking the subs, but antidepressants are extremely physically addictive, and jumping of Effexor cold turkey could send you off the edge now that the subs PAWS has started kicking in.

You need to tackle one beast at a time. You need to stabilize from the suboxone withdrawal before discontinuing Effexor, imo. Effexor has one of the worst withdrawals of all antidepressants, it's behind Paxil as one of the most effective (and subsequently hardest to kick) antidepressants.

Please do not use 5-HTP for this purpose, as it tends to make antidepressant withdrawal even worse.

I would look in to being prescribed tramadol short-term, perhaps as a taper from 100-150mg/day to a gradual reduction of zero, but I am not sure of the safety of using a 5-HT releasing agent, like tramadol, with a patient physically dependent on an SNRI, albiet withdrawing. If it were safe, then the O-Desmethyltramadol would take care of the suboxone PAWS and the tramadol seems to be easier to taper off of than Venlafaxine, despite the very similar molecular structures of the two drugs. However, this also carries a mild risk of opioid dependency in your case.

Please do not discontinue Effexor cold turkey.

 

[AminoAcid]

Thanks heaps for the advice everyone, it really does help

Just got back from the doctor which was largely useless, if it wasn't free (god bless Australia, lol) I would feel ripped off right now.

She looked at me like I was a flamboyant alien fromn the Andromeda galaxy when I asked about 5-HTP and serotonin syndrome. She had no idea what either of them even was.

She DID say one thing that was worthwhile though: withdrawal takes about 3 days to fully kick in, and that I should take 37.5mg every second day for at least a week before stopping completely. I've found some reports online of 5-HTP completely taking away the withdrawals.

I've decided to follow the same ethos as the Suboxone withdrawal: cold-turkey but if the symptoms get too intense I will revert to the lowest dose possible. Also will not take the 5HTP until at least a week in so as to minimize chances of serotonin syndrome.

Am now on day 2 and don't feel anything.

 

[sekio]

5-HTP will not cause serotonin syndrome unless combined with a MAOI or eaten in 50 gram doses. It's like claiming eating tyrosine or phenylalanine will make you hypertensive. I think you're just confusing SS with the intensity of withdrawals.

Remember, your body is making 5HTP from tryptophan all the time. At best taking 5HTP might make you feel better, at worst it will make you feel uncomfortable for a few hours if you take too much.

 

[AminoAcid]

5-HTP will not cause serotonin syndrome unless combined with a MAOI or eaten in 50 gram doses.

Cheers for that Seiko, I'll use the 5-HTP in a couple of days. Will also take the LSD on Monday to gain introspection.

At the end of day 3 and it feels like there's a literal fucking lightning storm in my head. Wiz-bam thank-you maam. Certainly an unpleasant feeling but not enough to stop the withdrawal process (yet).

Mood is surprisingly high, but I keep it up by chugging a glass of goon about every half hour. (For our American readers 'goon' is cask wine, because only fucking goons would drink the shit). But hey, it does the job.

Oh yeah and I'm shitting the worst diarrhoea imaginable. Not sure if that's from no Suboxone (surely I'm wayy past that, it's been 2 weeks already). *bam* another wave of electrocution to the head. You know when you go to the beach after there's been a storm and there's that dirty frothy stuff washing up in the waves, that's what my shit looks like at the moment. Not even liquid, like brown/yellow bubbles of gas just spraying everywhere.

Time for more goon.

Peace.

"The doctor that I went to couldn't do any good, he gave me pills to sleep and I took more than should. Too many times I've seen the sun come up through blood-shot eyes this week. What is there left to do, but to drink and watch the view?" - Mental As Anything.

 

[tokenname]

...the tramadol seems to be easier to taper off of than Venlafaxine, despite the very similar molecular structures of the two drugs.

i was wondering about this the other day..
how closely related the two are.
i've w/d from both..and tram's w/d can be tough..
but IMO, comparatively speaking, not even close.

@ AA.. i remember thinking 'brain zap' sounded like a joke compared to
what it actually felt like...

sounds like you're handling it..

 

[AminoAcid]

On day 4 without Effexor and the vomiting is in full swing, cannot hold down *any* solids or liquids. Even just chewing gum made me barf.

Am really pissed off that the doctor who put me on this shit didn't warn me of the epic withdrawal symptoms.

Lesson learned: Never trust a doctor, do the research yourself.