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Jihad declared on Australia - Your Thoughts...

When people talk about solving the problems through 'diplomatic measures' they are forgetting one very important fact. The Taliban are an oppressive regime.
There are millions of people in Afganistan who have been living in fear for a long time now. If America was to try and deal with the terrorist issues with words alone, that problem not be solved.
Can you imagine George Bush going 'please Mr Taliban leader, can you pleeease step down, pretty please?'
We can't just turn our backs on that problem and unfortunantly I think millitary action is needed. It's needed so that the people (particularly the women) of Afganistan can know Freedom again.
 
Apologies in advance if this is out of line (or if it has been posted before). But I personally feel that this should be read by everyone here.
It's a long read, but I'd debate anyone who claimed isn’t worthwhile.
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Published on Saturday, September 29, 2001 in the Guardian of London
The Algebra of Infinite Justice
by Arundhati Roy
In the aftermath of the unconscionable September 11 suicide attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center, an American newscaster said: "Good and evil rarely manifest themselves as clearly as they did last Tuesday. People who we don't know massacred people who we do. And they did so with contemptuous glee." Then he broke down and wept.
Here's the rub: America is at war against people it doesn't know, because they don't appear much on TV. Before it has properly identified or even begun to comprehend the nature of its enemy, the US government has, in a rush of publicity and embarrassing rhetoric, cobbled together an "international coalition against terror", mobilized its army, its air force, its navy and its media, and committed them to battle.
The trouble is that once America goes off to war, it can't very well return without having fought one. If it doesn't find its enemy, for the sake of the enraged folks back home, it will have to manufacture one. Once war begins, it will develop a momentum, a logic and a justification of its own, and we'll lose sight of why it's being fought in the first place.
What we're witnessing here is the spectacle of the world's most powerful country reaching reflexively, angrily, for an old instinct to fight a new kind of war. Suddenly, when it comes to defending itself, America's streamlined warships, cruise missiles and F-16 jets look like obsolete, lumbering things. As deterrence, its arsenal of nuclear bombs is no longer worth its weight in scrap. Box-cutters, penknives, and cold anger are the weapons with which the wars of the new century will be waged. Anger is the lock pick. It slips through customs unnoticed. Doesn't show up in baggage checks.
Who is America fighting? On September 20, the FBI said that it had doubts about the identities of some of the hijackers. On the same day President George Bush said, "We know exactly who these people are and which governments are supporting them." It sounds as though the president knows something that the FBI and the American public don't.
In his September 20 address to the US Congress, President Bush called the enemies of America "enemies of freedom". "Americans are asking, 'Why do they hate us?' " he said. "They hate our freedoms - our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other." People are being asked to make two leaps of faith here. First, to assume that The Enemy is who the US government says it is, even though it has no substantial evidence to support that claim. And second, to assume that The Enemy's motives are what the US government says they are, and there's nothing to support that either.
For strategic, military and economic reasons, it is vital for the US government to persuade its public that their commitment to freedom and democracy and the American Way of Life is under attack. In the current atmosphere of grief, outrage and anger, it's an easy notion to peddle. However, if that were true, it's reasonable to wonder why the symbols of America's economic and military dominance - the World Trade Center and the Pentagon - were chosen as the targets of the attacks. Why not the Statue of Liberty? Could it be that the stygian anger that led to the attacks has its taproot not in American freedom and democracy, but in the US government's record of commitment and support to exactly the opposite things - to military and economic terrorism, insurgency, military dictatorship, religious bigotry and unimaginable genocide (outside America)? It must be hard for ordinary Americans, so recently bereaved, to look up at the world with their eyes full of tears and encounter what might appear to them to be indifference. It isn't indifference. It's just augury. An absence of surprise. The tired wisdom of knowing that what goes around eventually comes around. American people ought to know that it is not them but their government's policies that are so hated. They can't possibly doubt that they themselves, their extraordinary musicians, their writers, their actors, their spectacular sportsmen and their cinema, are universally welcomed. All of us have been moved by the courage and grace shown by firefighters, rescue workers and ordinary office staff in the days since the attacks.
America's grief at what happened has been immense and immensely public. It would be grotesque to expect it to calibrate or modulate its anguish. However, it will be a pity if, instead of using this as an opportunity to try to understand why September 11 happened, Americans use it as an opportunity to usurp the whole world's sorrow to mourn and avenge only their own. Because then it falls to the rest of us to ask the hard questions and say the harsh things. And for our pains, for our bad timing, we will be disliked, ignored and perhaps eventually silenced.
The world will probably never know what motivated those particular hijackers who flew planes into those particular American buildings. They were not glory boys. They left no suicide notes, no political messages; no organization has claimed credit for the attacks. All we know is that their belief in what they were doing outstripped the natural human instinct for survival, or any desire to be remembered. It's almost as though they could not scale down the enormity of their rage to anything smaller than their deeds. And what they did has blown a hole in the world as we knew it. In the absence of information, politicians, political commentators and writers (like myself) will invest the act with their own politics, with their own interpretations. This speculation, this analysis of the political climate in which the attacks took place, can only be a good thing.
But war is looming large. Whatever remains to be said must be said quickly. Before America places itself at the helm of the "international coalition against terror", before it invites (and coerces) countries to actively participate in its almost godlike mission - called Operation Infinite Justice until it was pointed out that this could be seen as an insult to Muslims, who believe that only Allah can mete out infinite justice, and was renamed Operation Enduring Freedom- it would help if some small clarifications are made. For example, Infinite Justice/Enduring Freedom for whom? Is this America's war against terror in America or against terror in general? What exactly is being avenged here? Is it the tragic loss of almost 7,000 lives, the gutting of five million square feet of office space in Manhattan, the destruction of a section of the Pentagon, the loss of several hundreds of thousands of jobs, the bankruptcy of some airline companies and the dip in the New York Stock Exchange? Or is it more than that? In 1996, Madeleine Albright, then the US secretary of state, was asked on national television what she felt about the fact that 500,000 Iraqi children had died as a result of US economic sanctions. She replied that it was "a very hard choice", but that, all things considered, "we think the price is worth it". Albright never lost her job for saying this. She continued to travel the world representing the views and aspirations of the US government. More pertinently, the sanctions against Iraq remain in place. Children continue to die.
So here we have it. The equivocating distinction between civilization and savagery, between the "massacre of innocent people" or, if you like, "a clash of civilizations" and "collateral damage". The sophistry and fastidious algebra of infinite justice. How many dead Iraqis will it take to make the world a better place? How many dead Afghans for every dead American? How many dead women and children for every dead man? How many dead mojahedin for each dead investment banker? As we watch mesmerized, Operation Enduring Freedom unfolds on TV monitors across the world. A coalition of the world's superpowers is closing in on Afghanistan, one of the poorest, most ravaged, war-torn countries in the world, whose ruling Taliban government is sheltering Osama bin Laden, the man being held responsible for the September 11 attacks.
The only thing in Afghanistan that could possibly count as collateral value is its citizenry. (Among them, half a million maimed orphans.There are accounts of hobbling stampedes that occur when artificial limbs are airdropped into remote, inaccessible villages.) Afghanistan's economy is in a shambles. In fact, the problem for an invading army is that Afghanistan has no conventional coordinates or signposts to plot on a military map - no big cities, no highways, no industrial complexes, no water treatment plants. Farms have been turned into mass graves. The countryside is littered with land mines - 10 million is the most recent estimate. The American army would first have to clear the mines and build roads in order to take its soldiers in.
Fearing an attack from America, one million citizens have fled from their homes and arrived at the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. The UN estimates that there are eight million Afghan citizens who need emergency aid. As supplies run out - food and aid agencies have been asked to leave - the BBC reports that one of the worst humanitarian disasters of recent times has begun to unfold. Witness the infinite justice of the new century. Civilians starving to death while they're waiting to be killed.
In America there has been rough talk of "bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age". Someone please break the news that Afghanistan is already there. And if it's any consolation, America played no small part in helping it on its way. The American people may be a little fuzzy about where exactly Afghanistan is (we hear reports that there's a run on maps of the country), but the US government and Afghanistan are old friends.
In 1979, after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the CIA and Pakistan's ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) launched the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA. Their purpose was to harness the energy of Afghan resistance to the Soviets and expand it into a holy war, an Islamic jihad, which would turn Muslim countries within the Soviet Union against the communist regime and eventually destabilize it. When it began, it was meant to be the Soviet Union's Vietnam. It turned out to be much more than that. Over the years, through the ISI, the CIA funded and recruited almost 100,000 radical mojahedin from 40 Islamic countries as soldiers for America's proxy war. The rank and file of the mojahedin were unaware that their jihad was actually being fought on behalf of Uncle Sam. (The irony is that America was equally unaware that it was financing a future war against itself.)
In 1989, after being bloodied by 10 years of relentless conflict, the Russians withdrew, leaving behind a civilization reduced to rubble.
Civil war in Afghanistan raged on. The jihad spread to Chechnya, Kosovo and eventually to Kashmir. The CIA continued to pour in money and military equipment, but the overheads had become immense, and more money was needed. The mojahedin ordered farmers to plant opium as a "revolutionary tax". The ISI set up hundreds of heroin laboratories across Afghanistan. Within two years of the CIA's arrival, the Pakistan-Afghanistan borderland had become the biggest producer of heroin in the world, and the single biggest source of the heroin on American streets. The annual profits, said to be between $100bn and $200bn, were ploughed back into training and arming militants.
In 1995, the Taliban - then a marginal sect of dangerous, hardline fundamentalists - fought its way to power in Afghanistan. It was funded by the ISI, that old cohort of the CIA, and supported by many political parties in Pakistan. The Taliban unleashed a regime of terror. Its first victims were its own people, particularly women. It closed down girls' schools, dismissed women from government jobs, and enforced sharia laws under which women deemed to be "immoral" are stoned to death, and widows guilty of being adulterous are buried alive. Given the Taliban government's human rights track record, it seems unlikely that it will in any way be intimidated or swerved from its purpose by the prospect of war, or the threat to the lives of its civilians.
After all that has happened, can there be anything more ironic than Russia and America joining hands to re-destroy Afghanistan? The question is, can you destroy destruction? Dropping more bombs on Afghanistan will only shuffle the rubble, scramble some old graves and disturb the dead.
The desolate landscape of Afghanistan was the burial ground of Soviet communism and the springboard of a unipolar world dominated by America. It made the space for neocapitalism and corporate globalization, again dominated by America. And now Afghanistan is poised to become the graveyard for the unlikely soldiers who fought and won this war for America.
And what of America's trusted ally? Pakistan too has suffered enormously. The US government has not been shy of supporting military dictators who have blocked the idea of democracy from taking root in the country. Before the CIA arrived, there was a small rural market for opium in Pakistan. Between 1979 and 1985, the number of heroin addicts grew from zero to one-and-a-half million. Even before September 11, there were three million Afghan refugees living in tented camps along the border. Pakistan's economy is crumbling. Sectarian violence, globalization's structural adjustment programs and drug lords are tearing the country to pieces. Set up to fight the Soviets, the terrorist training centers and madrasahs, sown like dragon's teeth across the country, produced fundamentalists with tremendous popular appeal within Pakistan itself. The Taliban, which the Pakistan government has sup ported, funded and propped up for years, has material and strategic alliances with Pakistan's own political parties.
Now the US government is asking (asking?) Pakistan to garotte the pet it has hand-reared in its backyard for so many years. President Musharraf, having pledged his support to the US, could well find he has something resembling civil war on his hands.
India, thanks in part to its geography, and in part to the vision of its former leaders, has so far been fortunate enough to be left out of this Great Game. Had it been drawn in, it's more than likely that our democracy, such as it is, would not have survived. Today, as some of us watch in horror, the Indian government is furiously gyrating its hips, begging the US to set up its base in India rather than Pakistan. Having had this ringside view of Pakistan's sordid fate, it isn't just odd, it's unthinkable, that India should want to do this. Any third world country with a fragile economy and a complex social base should know by now that to invite a superpower such as America in (whether it says it's staying or just passing through) would be like inviting a brick to drop through your windscreen.
Operation Enduring Freedom is ostensibly being fought to uphold the American Way of Life. It'll probably end up undermining it completely. It will spawn more anger and more terror across the world. For ordinary people in America, it will mean lives lived in a climate of sickening uncertainty: will my child be safe in school? Will there be nerve gas in the subway? A bomb in the cinema hall? Will my love come home tonight? There have been warnings about the possibility of biological warfare - smallpox, bubonic plague, anthrax - the deadly payload of innocuous crop-duster aircraft. Being picked off a few at a time may end up being worse than being annihilated all at once by a nuclear bomb.
The US government, and no doubt governments all over the world, will use the climate of war as an excuse to curtail civil liberties, deny free speech, lay off workers, harass ethnic and religious minorities, cut back on public spending and divert huge amounts of money to the defense industry. To what purpose? President Bush can no more "rid the world of evil-doers" than he can stock it with saints. It's absurd for the US government to even toy with the notion that it can stamp out terrorism with more violence and oppression. Terrorism is the symptom, not the disease. Terrorism has no country. It's transnational, as global an enterprise as Coke or Pepsi or Nike. At the first sign of trouble, terrorists can pull up stakes and move their "factories" from country to country in search of a better deal. Just like the multi-nationals.
Terrorism as a phenomenon may never go away. But if it is to be contained, the first step is for America to at least acknowledge that it shares the planet with other nations, with other human beings who, even if they are not on TV, have loves and griefs and stories and songs and sorrows and, for heaven's sake, rights. Instead, when Donald Rumsfeld, the US defense secretary, was asked what he would call a victory in America's new war, he said that if he could convince the world that Americans must be allowed to continue with their way of life, he would consider it a victory.
The September 11 attacks were a monstrous calling card from a world gone horribly wrong. The message may have been written by Bin Laden (who knows?) and delivered by his couriers, but it could well have been signed by the ghosts of the victims of America's old wars. The millions killed in Korea, Vietnam and Cambodia, the 17,500 killed when Israel - backed by the US - invaded Lebanon in 1982, the 200,000 Iraqis killed in Operation Desert Storm, the thousands of Palestinians who have died fighting Israel's occupation of the West Bank. And the millions who died, in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Haiti, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, Panama, at the hands of all the terrorists, dictators and genocidists whom the American government supported, trained, bankrolled and supplied with arms. And this is far from being a comprehensive list.
For a country involved in so much warfare and conflict, the American people have been extremely fortunate. The strikes on September 11 were only the second on American soil in over a century. The first was Pearl Harbor. The reprisal for this took a long route, but ended with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This time the world waits with bated breath for the horrors to come.
Someone recently said that if Osama bin Laden didn't exist, America would have had to invent him. But, in a way, America did invent him. He was among the jihadis who moved to Afghanistan in 1979 when the CIA commenced its operations there. Bin Laden has the distinction of being created by the CIA and wanted by the FBI. In the course of a fortnight he has been promoted from suspect to prime suspect and then, despite the lack of any real evidence, straight up the charts to being "wanted dead or alive".
From all accounts, it will be impossible to produce evidence (of the sort that would stand scrutiny in a court of law) to link Bin Laden to the September 11 attacks. So far, it appears that the most incriminating piece of evidence against him is the fact that he has not condemned them.
From what is known about the location of Bin Laden and the living conditions in which he operates, it's entirely possible that he did not personally plan and carry out the attacks - that he is the inspirational figure, "the CEO of the holding company". The Taliban's response to US demands for the extradition of Bin Laden has been uncharacteristically reasonable: produce the evidence, then we'll hand him over. President Bush's response is that the demand is "non-negotiable".
(While talks are on for the extradition of CEOs - can India put in a side request for the extradition of Warren Anderson of the US? He was the chairman of Union Carbide, responsible for the Bhopal gas leak that killed 16,000 people in 1984. We have collated the necessary evidence. It's all in the files. Could we have him, please?)
But who is Osama bin Laden really? Let me rephrase that. What is Osama bin Laden? He's America's family secret. He is the American president's dark doppelgänger. The savage twin of all that purports to be beautiful and civilized. He has been sculpted from the spare rib of a world laid to waste by America's foreign policy: its gunboat diplomacy, its nuclear arsenal, its vulgarly stated policy of "full-spectrum dominance", its chilling disregard for non-American lives, its barbarous military interventions, its support for despotic and dictatorial regimes, its merciless economic agenda that has munched through the economies of poor countries like a cloud of locusts. Its marauding multinationals who are taking over the air we breathe, the ground we stand on, the water we drink, the thoughts we think. Now that the family secret has been spilled, the twins are blurring into one another and gradually becoming interchangeable. Their guns, bombs, money and drugs have been going around in the loop for a while. (The Stinger missiles that will greet US helicopters were supplied by the CIA. The heroin used by America's drug addicts comes from Afghanistan. The Bush administration recently gave Afghanistan a $43m subsidy for a "war on drugs"....)
Now Bush and Bin Laden have even begun to borrow each other's rhetoric. Each refers to the other as "the head of the snake". Both invoke God and use the loose millenarian currency of good and evil as their terms of reference. Both are engaged in unequivocal political crimes. Both are dangerously armed - one with the nuclear arsenal of the obscenely powerful, the other with the incandescent, destructive power of the utterly hopeless. The fireball and the ice pick. The bludgeon and the axe. The important thing to keep in mind is that neither is an acceptable alternative to the other.
President Bush's ultimatum to the people of the world - "If you're not with us, you're against us" - is a piece of presumptuous arrogance. It's not a choice that people want to, need to, or should have to make.
© Arundhati Roy 2001
Arundhati Roy, forty-one, is the author of The God of Small Things (Random House, 1997), which won the Booker Prize, sold six million copies, and has been translated into forty languages. Here is link to an interview with Arundhati in the April 2001 issue of The Progressive Magazine: http://www.theprogressive.org/intv0401.html

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I again apologise for the length, but I'm sure you will agree that it is a worthwhile read.
If you have the time I also recommend you check out Pilger's perspective on this issue, which was posted here: http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum29/HTML/002151.html
[This message has been edited by Mr.Happ-E (edited 03 November 2001).]
 
couldnt be fucked reading through all the posts so ill just make a few general comments.
yes the US government has fucked different parts of the world over on many, many occasions, but it has always done these things because it was believed to be in the best interest of their country. they cant help it if theyre paranoid, gung ho interventionist dickheads. they couldnt let communism be so they went out and destroyed it, which included creating a power vaccuum in afghanistan allowing the taliban to set up camp. they funded iraq because they viewed iran as a terrorist state, and theres nothing really wrong with that either. it was in their interest at the time. then, their interest changed and they chose to attack iraq to secure oil interests (indeed most of their intervention in the mideast has been to secure oil for their economy)
now, theyve chosen to ignore MASSIVE human rights abuses in uzbekistan (like, for instance, jailing someone on suspicion of being a muslim extremist because they have a beard, then torturing them with electrodes and eventually killing them) because the uzbekistanis have been nice enough to let them use their airbases.
theyve allowed their corporations to run riot over the third world, disregarding labor standards, the environment, and generally fucking up the third world in most respects, but it creates profits and wealth for americans, so why shouldnt they?
europe is similar in some respects, the EU does terrible shit like pays its farmers to produce more food than europe needs and then dumps it in the ocean cos its cheaper than shipping it to the third world. furthermore these two economic blocs control the UN and its economic and social arms, like the world bank, WTO etc, so basically they rule shit, and anyone who doesnt go along with them is fucked. this is why jonny is sucking up.
so basically, yes the US government are fucking arseholes, but their principal goal is to better the position of the united states and its people, so why not do all these things? from what i gather basically the US government/media machine is so hooked up and smoothly running that the (general) public doesnt feel the need to complain about the US's treatment of other countries.
having painted this doomsday picture i dont really thing australia has that much to worry about. i mean weve sent one ship so far, its not as though we're leading the front line of ground troops are we? (not that the US will use many ground troops, its not in their nations interest to put US soldiers in danger, better to kill a few hundred innocent afghanis and maybe blow up a red cross building or two) also (and this is pretty horrible) the grim reality is that even though many people may die from this war, chances are it will sort a lot of things out. our Govt actually probably considered the options and decided it was best to align itself with the US early, who, lets face it, are going to kick the shit out of islam and then reward those who supported it in some way or another.
forgive my drunken phrasing, but i believe there are some facts in there.... (somewhere)
 
HAHAHAHAHA!
You have fallen for the media headlines.I truly cant believe nobody has said anything yet. There is no official jihad on Australia. Some dickhead reporter asked the taliban foreign minister if australia was going to be in the jihad. He was stumped. He said that Australia was involved and i dont know the quote but it was like.....i guess we will...i dont know...i guess so
nobody thinks of us...we are a pissant. we are nothing. we didnt fund israel and we didnt stage the gulf war...we arent america...we arent israel...do we bomb iraq...or did we put sanctions on them (well i guess we are a united nation...and ther was a ship guarding the border to restrict trade.) but they NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER said off their own backs that the jihad was on australia in any way...he was put in a position where he had to say something...its bullshit....why dont we send our troops in and kill the journo fuckers who chase headlines like this....keep your heads in australia and watch the journos fucking convince them to bomb sydney for a kewl headline. this whole story is bullshit....if you dont believe me read the weekend sydney morning herald page 1...i havent read it myself but i was notified of it...but cant find the fucker.
dont believe everything you hear....see the whole footage and take the hint and watch ABC...i saw the whole bit with the question and all....cos theres no shareholders to pay...but anyway...there is my point...so chill out and keep on keeping on...
 
Uhh man..the ambassoder said "We are now at holy war with australia. Australian troops will suffer the same fate that the russians did many years ago, lying in graves"
The funny part that was mentioned is the fact that they had no idea, geographically, where Australia actually is.
smile.gif
 
krunchy is actually correct as far as i know. i heard it on the radio last week. what the taliban spokesman actually was saying was that australian troops over in the middle east will suffer the same fate as the american and british etc.. that a jihad is declared on them. perhaps some opponents to australian participation will cause terror here, but i dount the al queda network or the taliban will be heading our way any time soon.
its important to gain info on these world issues from a variety of sources.. that way its likely to be closer to the actual truth of the matter. and at the moment the issue of the election is clouding the events overseas.. its interesting to note the way journalists twist and bend the truth and imply that things have happened without actually saying that they really have taken place. their job is to create headlines, not to just give us the plain truth.
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hey kids, come here a minute.. i got a good thing for you. nepalese bliss. if anybody offers you a hit of.. nepalese bliss.. you better turn it down unless you really wanna get off.. that stuff's so strong its religious. blow your head right off..
 
What do you mean no group claimed the actions of s11... Bin laden got up on international TV and claimed it..
The Talaban harour terrorists. Therefore they are terorist IMO.
 
What do you mean no group claimed the actions of s11... Bin laden got up on international TV and claimed it..
The Talaban harbour terrorists. Therefore they are terorist IMO.
 
kookaburra: im not dismissing your opinions mate, but i couldnt be bothered replying to what you had to say... ive been typing my ass off in the current events forum arguing against those points and i simply couldnt be fucked
to call what i said naive is not really your position to say...
like i said.. i beleive in peace and if you think that peace is naive and that you can justify death etc, then enjoy hell mate
smile.gif
 
Stylin Stylin Stylin … You appear to have misinterpreted me. The opinion I put forward was that your suggestion to respond to the request from the US with an offer of medical suppport was naïve. Whether your commitment to peace is or is not naïve is not something on which I expressed a view.
But I do disagree with you where you said that it’s not “not [my] position to say” whether your view is naïve. I thought that’s what a discussion forum is all about – having the freedom to express any opinion about any other opinion. So if you want to tell me my opinion is dumb and ridiculous, that’s your right – go for it. You won’t find me telling you it’s “not your position” to make such a determination.
As for my request for you to put forward your opinion as to how the US should have responded to the September 11 attacks, this was something I was genuinely curious about. (Maybe you could point me to where you’ve covered this in the Current Affairs section as I wasn’t able to find anything there…). I have heard a number of people oppose the war on terrorism but – maybe because I don’t read the newspapers carefully enough – I haven’t heard much by way of alternative responses to the terrorist attacks.
 
ahhhh kooki my mate
you gotta realise that im one of those "hippy types" i guess... well peace is an ideal i wont compromise etc. its not like a i wear tye dye and dont wear deodorant hehehe (sorry this reply is me tanked up on melbourne cup day @ work hehehe)....
I feel that the US had no choice to other then what its doing, for the US people were screaming for blood
sheish
sorry this seems like a cop out, ill be back tomorrow when im not so"canTANKerous"
*does the renoun "stylin's drunk" booty wiggle*
my work had a spit roast today with free booze, id thought id go check bluelight as the majority of my work mates are i dunno borirrring
keep it ReAl MoFo's
99` baby
 
I'll acknowledge that I can't offer a perfect solution to the s11 events, but I do know that starting a war isn't likely to fix anything.
The point that I try to make is that s11 shouldn't have happened in the first place. America has been screwing over half the world for the past 50 odd years, i'm not saying that they deserved this in any way, it's just not surprising that people would hate the US so much as to do this.
If I had to offer a solution (and was allowed to ignore the cry's for blood of the american public), I would suggest the US government pull it's fingers out of everyone elses business and try to patch the damage it has done. If they require revenge then extract Osama Bin Laden accurately (bombing a countryside isn't particularly accurate) and put him through a proper trial. At the moment it's closer to the salem witch hunting than it is to the "innocent until proven guilty" that the American law system is based upon.
I believe that the US would have created and enemy if they didn't have Osama, just so they have something to direct their rage at. I don't consider that healthy. Call me a flower child (or anything else) if you like but war doesn't solve anything.
I think this quote from that awesome article from Mr.Happ-E pretty much sums up my thinking...
Terrorism is the symptom, not the disease.
What's the point of getting rid of the symptons if the disease is allowed to flourish?
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Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.
 
Can't be bothered reading everything, that big article provided confirmation to what i've heard and also suspected.
For starters, the media are barstards. Look at good ole anthony mundine. They know he isn't the smartest bloke, and why did they ask him about the s11 events when he is a boxer and really doesn't have anything much more to say on the matter than your average bloke? Becuase they knew it would create headlines, even at the expense of one good boxers career. So I personally don't take seriously what i hear in the media.
Secondly, the Us government has no interest in anything but its interests, local and foreign. Seeing as that fact has been said already in this forum, I believe that this 'war on terror' was a knee jerk reaction to keep the people of america happy. I really don't think the people who make decisions on behalf of the US of A really know who they're fighting. What point is there of blowing the shit out of afghanistan, killing 'Osama Bin Laden', and walking out of that region proud, when as a result of these and actions over the last 15 years are a society brought up to hate western policies and those who support them?
*shrugs*
Just saw on the news something about *******sibly working with iraq???? Wonder what they've got up their sleeves. I hope they are smarter than President Bush is.......
All this talk of osama banana having nuclear materials makes me somewhat uneasy, especially after reading about what a nuclear bomb actually does...........lets hope it doesn't have to come to that eh?
 
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