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Jehovah's Witnesses, and Drugs (Ask A JW here)

delsymfan

delsymfan

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
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Lima Peru
I've been a child raised Jehovah's Witness for my whole life. They really arent as bad as they are made to seem. Very nice people. But of course the whole thing has some missing pieces, and I dont like having a human try to interpret them.

I was in a talky mood, and decided to share the JW policy on drugs. Feel free to ask about anything tho.

There are pretty much 3 rules circling it and why we cant do just about anything recreationally speaking.

First, They have a very flat rule that if it is illegal, you cant do it. Fair enough. So nothing scheduled. This rules out the vast majority of stuff. Probably not a bad rule to follow in many cases anyway.

Secondly they have a strict "no smoking" policy as per a scripture that claims we have to avoid "defilements of flesh." Also kinda fair, I cant say they are wrong in putting that rule down. So no cigs or MJ.

3rd is where they take a big leap. Knowing that there are tons of ways around the first two rules (Unscheds, Analogues, Vaporization, oral consumption, etc) They have gone to the point of essentially blocking all drug use.

The reason is as follows: This is a paraphrasing more or less, but it goes like this: Drugs open the mind and can allow wicked spirit forces to enter your mind and can make you more susceptible to their thinking.

What they seem to be trying to say is "Drugs will make you think for yourself and leave us"

There is a ton of discrepancy from one congregation to another however. A lot of things have never been officially determined, such as using marijuana (where legalized, rule 1) in a brownie (rule 2). Ive heard some say its ok and others would still punish you. Its a real mess.

Of course there is NO bible rule about doing drugs.

Well anyway, I was bored and decided to throw this up here.
 
forgive my ignorance

whats the deal about not taking part in social get togethers, and celebrating holidays
thats the part i never got

halloween , ect ....
do ya'll have like a thanksgiving

im gunna read your post again , cuz the piff is fucking with my attention span, I can feel my IQ dropping rapidly
 
Hi delsym, Im sorry but this thread is more like a journal entry than anything else, and i would prolly close it, but instead Ima be kind and send it over to the philosophy n spirituality discussion where religion type threads goes. Your thread aint about drug culture, and i am sure it is interestin to many of us so i dont jus wanna be a dick and close it for no reason, but it is more about the religion than the drugs so thats why im movin it. thanks for decidin to share with us tho
 
I joined when I was 18, was disfellowshipped (like ex-communicated in the Catholic church) later after I committed some sins that the Elders didn't like and they didn't think that I was going to change. I lost all the "family" I had made there and had to start all over. It was a lot of trauma. I was a good JW, model study, full time pioneer, always came to every meeting prepared. I wanted to please everyone.
I was pulled in by a guy who I feel for although we shouldn't have been in ANY sort of a relationship since I wasn't a JW. But he even promised to marry me. When it came time for me to be baptised I broke it off (I thought for a temporary time) to prove I was doing it for Jehovah and not him. Well 2 week later he was with this other girl he had been hanging around with and a month later he married her instead. "Because she was bankrupt and needed someone to take care of her." I later learned that almost everything he ever told me was a lie. He would say he would go to meetings, he never did. I don't even know if I even really know his name. But being kicked out was the best thing to happen, although painful. They are a evil cult, period.

As for drugs, they are anti drug unless you need it. If you need it for a shirt period of time, like you had surgery thats ok. But other than that, its a no no. Psych meds. They are iffy on those. They don't want you to be nuts and give Jehovah a bad name but they also seem to somewhat believe that if you pray enough, reach out to your brothers and sisters enough and have a close relationship with Jehovah God you SHOULD be ok. WHATEVER.

They also have another medical rule- which is their no blood rule. They get a lot of hell for this. Blood is not to enter the body. You are not to eat anything containing blood. Receive a blood transfusion or receive a transplant of a organ (although they kinda consider it a "personal choice", that you talk over with Jehovah God, but its really frowned on) because it contains blood.

But after all this bullshit, twisting of the Bible (which I don't believe to be the word of god anymore) I mean they have their OWN TRANSLATION of the Bible, the rules about EVERYTHING, who you can talk to, where you can go, what you can do, what you should do, no to celebrate holidays, blah blah blah

But of course there are the hypocrites just like in every organized relation, they call themselves Christians by the way, even though they don't believe in the Trinity, they believe in Jesus so they say that makes them Christians...ANYWAY, there are those that just half ass is and are frowned on or those that just fake it and go do whatever the hell they want when no one is watching. Its usually the younger people. Hopefully most of them get out. Although being disfellowshipped when raised in JW home is SO SO hard I'm sure. (Although I wasn't) because your family is pretty much commanded to shun you or suffer the same fate. They see it as great love in that they are saving your life from the grave, bringing you back to Jehovah and the paradise earth. Personally I think its the most unloving a cruel thing you could ever do.

Not to mention if you do your research you can find A LOT of holes in their logic, although they try to present you with so many books and pamphlets and shit, more than you can take in so that you think they know what they are talking about. But then again you can find big holes in any religion.

I'm a freaking atheist now. I'm done taking about this before it pisses me off. Sorry if I shared more than anyone wanted to know.


Deaf Eye - They believe and seek to prove to you that ALL HOLIDAYS from Christmas to May Day are grounded in Pagan traditions and roots and therefore should NOT be celebrated in ANY way by the true followers of Jehovah God.
The ONLY "Holiday" they celebrate is "Memorial", which is around Easter (which they don't celebrate). It is to bring to memory of the last supper. Bread and wine are passed around and everyone holds it. Only those of the 22,000??? (correct me if I'm wrong its been a long time and I've repressed a lot of that bullshit.) anointed that will go to heaven to rule with Jesus Christ are allowed to partake. The rest do not. They do not go to Heaven, they will remain on the Paradise earth that will be created. Those who do not believe in Jehovah God or do not serve him correctly or share the "life saving knowledge" with others will just die. Thats it. There is no hell. However, when the Paradise earth comes, those who were faithful, including those in the Bible will be resurrected and live together in Paradise. *BLEH*
 
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Pillthrill sorry to hear about your bad experience there. I genuinely find most of the people are very kind and you get your assholes in the mix too. That dude was likely desperate to have a person and was in a very confused state. Due to the complete and total ban on any type of sexual activity, the only course for many is to get married before they are ready because they cant take it anymore.

And of course, the disfellowshipping is purely subjective, and thats what frustrates me. If you dont "appear sorry enough" you are out.

They believe as you said most all holidays are false, and it actually is historically backed. It makes sense, but I dont personally care. I dont see whats wrong with giving a damn gift a certain time in the year. Its not a big deal anyway. They've frequently used the illustration "If a delicious piece of candy was in a gutter would you eat it?" And they reason that the holidays are like candy but have bad origins and are dirty.

Afterglow, I've been here a while and done a lot of various things already, but I guess I just felt like sharing because I know people get curious and I also wanted people to hear how they view drugs in general.

Deafeye, yeah they strongly discourage hanging out with anybody who isnt a JW and therefore work parties or having friends outside it is not allowed in most cases.

Lacey thanks for leaving it open. I agree I didnt quite know where it fit in but it was something I felt like putting on the boards.
 
OK, about their outlook on drugs, you mention that they base it (partly) on legality. However, knowing their extreme attitude concerning war and any other trapping of the state (no pledges of allegiance, saluting the flag) why in the world would they then offer that legality and illegality meant a thing? Seems to be a case of conveinence; "Never obey the Govt., EXCEPT when it suits our point."

A huge problem I personally have with them is their prostylesation, knocking on doors, etc. Witnesses are not the only religion going door to door, but they ARE the most consistent of the groups.

The one thing that makes me almost detest that faith is its views concerning "Blood Transfusion." I am very familiar with their Sciptual basis for it but they totally dropped the ball with their "understanding/interpretation."
 
DeadEye: "JWs try to say all holidays are pagan...": Well, any non-civil related holiday (President's Day, Veterans' Day, etc.) in the US IS pagan. Xmas, Easter, Mayday, Halloween, actual fact.

Also, most Christian faiths abhor the concept of the Trinty. Interesting history about the Triny but I am sure it would bore everyone so...
 
Let me say this first off. I find that on just bout 90% of their stuff makes total sense and is correct (assuming the bible is in the first place).

But its just some little things that arent.

But on your thoughts Rachamim let me help ya out:

1. You bring up a good point, they do basically break laws in some countries at times. They have a pretty firm "follow the gov's laws unless it violates gods law." God says dont kill people and go to war, so they dont. Gov says pay your taxes, so they do. God has no rule against paying taxes. You get the idea.

2. Knocking on doors is basically laid out in the bible, and the last couple verses of Matthew more or less command it. So IMO it makes perfect sense to do. And at any point in time, if you simply say dont come back here, they will put you on a list and not come back.

3. Blood, they take the scripture at Acts something something that says: "abstain from blood" very literally. To me, its actually good for people. Read up on blood transfusions. They dont usually save lives. They may at times delay the inevitable, but many die soon after anyway. There are tons of bloodless surgery options available now in most areas and they are way more effective. In fact, in some areas the JW push against transfusions has helped spur the design of that technology.

Its a moot point to me anymore. Again, I dont care about the rule, but I have seen its benefits.

4. And yeah the trinity is flat out BS. But again, to me, who cares. I mean who cares whether the three heads are attached or not (they arent according to the bible), but as long as you do what it says.


To clarify my stance on this, I personally think that a lot of the JW rules/laws/ideals are good for people as a whole. If everybody was a JW, we truly wouldnt have war. You wont find a single one carrying a weapon or robbing people. But the fact of the matter is they are also very restrictive on some things without any basis, and to me when you overstep the bible's print, you lose my trust. So I try to be a good person, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna do things that I want to do and that generally includes lots of activites we talk about on BL here.
 
Uh I can't read this anymore. Its getting too damn preachy. I feel like I'm at a "talk" and I'm gona be sick. I'm out.
 
delsymfan said:
Let me say this first off. I find that on just bout 90% of their stuff makes total sense and is correct (assuming the bible is in the first place).

But its just some little things that arent.

But on your thoughts Rachamim let me help ya out:

1. You bring up a good point, they do basically break laws in some countries at times. They have a pretty firm "follow the gov's laws unless it violates gods law." God says dont kill people and go to war, so they dont. Gov says pay your taxes, so they do. God has no rule against paying taxes. You get the idea.

2. Knocking on doors is basically laid out in the bible, and the last couple verses of Matthew more or less command it. So IMO it makes perfect sense to do. And at any point in time, if you simply say dont come back here, they will put you on a list and not come back.

3. Blood, they take the scripture at Acts something something that says: "abstain from blood" very literally. To me, its actually good for people. Read up on blood transfusions. They dont usually save lives. They may at times delay the inevitable, but many die soon after anyway. There are tons of bloodless surgery options available now in most areas and they are way more effective. In fact, in some areas the JW push against transfusions has helped spur the design of that technology.

Its a moot point to me anymore. Again, I dont care about the rule, but I have seen its benefits.

4. And yeah the trinity is flat out BS. But again, to me, who cares. I mean who cares whether the three heads are attached or not (they arent according to the bible), but as long as you do what it says.


To clarify my stance on this, I personally think that a lot of the JW rules/laws/ideals are good for people as a whole. If everybody was a JW, we truly wouldnt have war. You wont find a single one carrying a weapon or robbing people. But the fact of the matter is they are also very restrictive on some things without any basis, and to me when you overstep the bible's print, you lose my trust. So I try to be a good person, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna do things that I want to do and that generally includes lots of activites we talk about on BL here.
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I feel like this post just shows generally your underlying motive for creating this thread was to justify to yourself why you think it's good and/or ok to be a JW. Regardless, I think it ends up having a net positive effect because more people hear a different perspective from a group that wouldn't otherwise normally be heard on bl (I'm assuming there aren't many practicing, believing, JWs on bluelight, lulz).

That said, I will hold my opinion back before I here a practicing medical practitioner's views on the blood issue. I will say I'm having a very difficult time thinking there isn't an overall positive effect of blood transfusions. I feel like the propaganda JW has told you is at least shining through on this point. :\

Also, it sounds like a lot of things about JW you don't "care about". If the 'leaders' of your church (is that what you call it?) knew this would they have a problem with it? Admittedly, a lot of us do not believe every aspect of our chosen religious-sect's canon but it seems like JWs have a somewhat more drastic effect if you don't follow their beliefs to a T. How much do you really have to follow their beliefs to not get kicked out?

All that said, good for you for posting your views honestly and openly. I'm sure it's not that easy on a random message board, nonetheless a 'liberal' website like bluelight. :)
 
Witnesses are not the only religion going door to door, but they ARE the most consistent of the groups.
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Interesting, I would say Mormons are more vigilant on this front with the two year missionary requirement which may take you across the planet.
 
delsymfan said:
So I try to be a good person, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna do things that I want to do and that generally includes lots of activites we talk about on BL here.
Click to expand...

This is a position that will ultimately be incompatible with your religion of origin. Are you prepared to be disfellowshipped over experimentation with drugs? Fear of being disfellowshipped (or the equivalent in other religions) keeps people coming back to a great extent. I imagine there are many JWs living secret lives, though due to the insularity of the community, I cannot imagine big secrets are kept for very long.

I have a question for you. Do you consider the JW tradition a "religion" or a "cult," and what is the basis for your response?

My own answer is under the NSFW tag. It is work safe; this is intended not to spoil your response.

NSFW:
Yes. See this site for criteria that are not my own, but that make sense to me, as to what constitutes a cult. By this definition, JWs certainly qualify. I know of no major world religion that fits all of these criteria, but the JWs sure do (along with the Church of Scientology and the FLDS, among others).
 
Thanks for replies guys. Let me say, I truly do want to stay in the religion due to the fact I dont want to be disfellowshipped. I believe your family comes first in life for everything. And I dont want to lose them. Simple as that. Sometimes you have to make a few sacrifices to hold things together. I've accepted that.

With the JW religion (more on that later), as soon as you dont believe something you are basically considered apostate. This was documented in the 80's where they kicked out people in the HQ for simply not believing every word spoken. So I keep these things to myself. Save for bluelight. Perhaps thats the reason for my post, I need an outlet. I have very very few people I can confide in on these topics. Like 1-2 at most.

I view this group as a religion, not a cult. A cult in my mind is two things, first it is for profit, and it is secondly focused on one man. Cults that come to mind in my book are Scientology.

The JW organization is Non profit, and from what I can tell is not handing money out even to high end folks. I've known some personally and they dont live lavishly. And they dont put one person at the top. Its a group of people that run it, and that group changes frequently as some die off.


Now I just read your NSFW bit. Personally I dont let some persons definition of "Cult" define my definition. If I call anything blue a cult then the sky is. Its just a word. Words dont make things what they are. I agree with Damien there. Although I dont agree what I'm taught is truly the truth.

Oh and Damien on the Mormons. This 2 year thing may be true, but let me just say that JW people are in more nations than Mormons, and have a very organized structure for the preaching work. I commend them on following that. My whole thing is if you are gonna proclaim the bible as the truth, you better do what it says. And they got that preaching thing nailed down. I've had one pair of mormons ever come to my house. And I personally have knocked on doors with people coming out who have talked to us 2-3 times a year.
 
The Jehovah's Witnesses have a delineated corporate structure (see Wiki) though I do not believe this to be for nefarious purposes - tax exempt status, however, cannot be a criterion for a bona fide religion. That works the other way around - a religion RECEIVES tax exempt status when it petitions, because it is a religion. And it would be Jehovah himself at the top, no? ;)

I am trying to resolve the "cult v. religion" dichotomy for independent reasons and added the list as roughly representative of my take on the matter. I appreciate the opportunity to engage in dialogue with those who are devout practitioners of a set of beliefs that is outside the confines of the major world religions.

I've had JWs and Mormons come to my building in the same day, but then I live in probably one of the most liberal places in the US. I am sure many here can identify with the discomfort of a stranger knocking at the door.

delsymfan, do you believe you will be able to effectively hide your use of drugs from your family and congregation? There are threads on "living a double life" throughout Bluelight, and many of us do this to varying degrees.
 
Sure and so far I've done well enough with it. Personally to me it ends up being a "what they dont know wont hurt em" strategy.

Being a worldwide system the JW folk up top have had to make and modify a wide arrange of companies. And then below those you have regional committees that handle more local things. Its all quite complex. But it gets a lot of work done.

Its nice talkin with you Mari. I enjoy it as well. As far as your cult vs. religion debate let me add to that a bit. I think its an important argument because it can almost very clearly remove a lot of waste from the table. My biggest thing that proves something to be a cult is its source material. If its some guy who claims god gave him books and told him to write them down, and then go out and does it, and then gets followeres to follow HIM because he is a prophet then that is a cult.

Its quite simple to me. The bible flat out said, this was said before jesus death, that many false prophets would arise and would mislead many. I figure thats absolutely right.

God also too, in closing off the old testament covenant, stopped using prophets for us.

And then the only miraculous acts and things were done in the bible with the leftover people from after jesus death. There shouldnt have been any man proclaiming to have new information again.

So now today we have a lot of people saying "I found a new book and I have new info" and these guys are just looking to self promote and make a fast buck.
 
delsymfan, you said that you don't consider it a cult but a religion, but to me it seems it is a bit of both.

A number of people that I have known, their families have been pulled apart the minute one of the members tried to get out of it. One in specifically, she went through a lot of anguish as the religion/cult threatened her family forcing them to ostricise their daughter for wanting out. It took years for her to recover. They had to play games in public pretending to not talk to each other to appease them.

Besides that, when her brother was called in the army which was compulsory, they were not letting him touch a gun and he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in army prison fot obeying Jehovah's witness law so to speak, which extended his time in the army, instead of 3 years into 7 years. If he had failed to do so, they would have ostricised him from his family also.
How could you call it religion, just because they use something similar to the bible. They do bainwash you too!
Another friend, to try and save a fellow from going through all that with the army, he set up the fellow to go into a brother which is not allowed and made a call to one of the elders to come and catch him, so they kicked him out of the cult this way, so he was able this way to go to the army as he was suppose to, and to use the gun and not be forced to spend years in jail like the other fellow for refusing to hold a gun.

Sounds more like a cult to me! They don't leave you alone if you are amidst them, they do hard salesmanship to convert everyone into their "religion" where you feel forced to have an argument as they try to force you relentlessly.
They may have changed now a bit-but not much! There is a lot more! They covertly force your dark side/anger down into repression which has caused many to suffer psychological problems similar to psychosis since they were repressed since children through the cult.

Oh, and this>>Drugs open the mind and can allow wicked spirit forces to enter your mind and can make you more susceptible to their thinking. <<You gave it the wrong interpretation!

>>What they seem to be trying to say is "Drugs will make you think for yourself and leave us" <<<That's not fully it-though it can also be interpreted that way!
I am glad you said "they seem to be trying to say", it is more like premitive thinking made of superstition! A lot of superstition in fact! They use it on their believers!
What it says is that the drugs will open up your unconscious/gates and the aggressive instincts will push through and you will follow these drives to do wicked things! Perhaps right in that respect, and here is also your interpretation of sublimating those instincts to think for yourself-so both right; but when you consider that they repress these instincts in the children and families, of course they will pour out in the open.

I noticed that you seemingly come across as that kind of "preaching" yourself through your posts, by finding logical reasons for their beliefs-which of course there are, but the underlying reasons of what they do is coersion of your will. I can see also your genuiness though!!

There is no freedom of the will in Jehova's Witness, you have to listen to the elders and their law, or you take the highway and that also means away from your family. So please, now that you are older don't try to cover for their preachings. It is a cult, if you are not allowed to use your will and bow your head to them whether you believe them or not!

You speak very eloquent though (as they also do). They are good people because the cult demands it, repression is in action. Everyone who has left them, get the goose bumps when they hear the cult's name! They feel sick at heart and gut just like pillthrill did! I hope you have developed your own freedom!
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delsymfan said:
Thanks for replies guys. Let me say, I truly do want to stay in the religion due to the fact I dont want to be disfellowshipped. I believe your family comes first in life for everything. And I dont want to lose them. Simple as that. Sometimes you have to make a few sacrifices to hold things together. I've accepted that.

.
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You seem like such a genuinely nice person, and I like how you express yourself and share your opinions without even the littlest bit of effrontery or pretension....and are also so quick to acknowledge and really listen to what everybody else has to say here ...I think its great. I just wanted to tell you that. I have nothing else to contribute though so.... Just thought I'd throw in a kind word ....:)
 
I've known a few openly gay men that were raised JW.

One I considered dating, the other I used to chat up a fare bit over drinks at the bar.

They were both troubled men. It seemed that they were having a hard time shaking off the guilt thrust upon them by their upbringing.

...just an observation.
 
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