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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

Jan 6 Attack on the Capitol and the aftermath

Alasdair what about having a heresay witness testify where the cross examiners never even attempted to reach out to the actual witnesses of the ‘event‘ that allegedly happened? would you say this is good praxis? Why wouldn’t they do their due diligence with arguably their biggest claim/media sensation? Really makes you wonder.. as a person that notices things I reckon I’ll just keep going on noticing things. I am a noticer by my very nature tbh
 
Alasdair what about having a heresay witness testify where the cross examiners never even attempted to reach out to the actual witnesses of the ‘event‘ that allegedly happened? would you say this is good praxis? Why wouldn’t they do their due diligence with arguably their biggest claim/media sensation? Really makes you wonder.. as a person that notices things I reckon I’ll just keep going on noticing things. I am a noticer by my very nature tbh
If it makes you feel better, Pat Cipollone, Trump's White House counsel, has been subpoenaed by the commission. He was closer to the former POTUS than Hutchinson.

Hutchinson, BTW was Mark Meadows' assistant. Mark Meadows, Trump's Chief of Staff, refused to testify but she was very close to Meadows and therefore Giuliani and others. Don't worry, they are slowly chiseling away at Trump's inner circle.

All that said, it is still clear that you are only getting your take on the hearings as they are filtered through whatever pundits you watch/read/listen to. Until you catch up on all 6 hearings thus far, and continue watching them as they unfold, nothing you can say about it has any merit. Are you a glutton for punishment or something? It's like arguing against a book you've never read or a movie you haven't seen. The least you can do is educate yourself on the matter with first hand knowledge.
 
Okay she can just testify she went into the dining room and they were cleaning up a wall full of ketchup
that good enough for you?
that mr stability threw his happy meal at the wall and then pulled the tablecloth off like an amateur David Coperfield
ty for a great visual sounds like a normal day at oma`s house
 
If it makes you feel better, Pat Cipollone, Trump's White House counsel, has been subpoenaed by the commission. He was closer to the former POTUS than Hutchinson.

Hutchinson, BTW was Mark Meadows' assistant. Mark Meadows, Trump's Chief of Staff, refused to testify but she was very close to Meadows and therefore Giuliani and others. Don't worry, they are slowly chiseling away at Trump's inner circle.

All that said, it is still clear that you are only getting your take on the hearings as they are filtered through whatever pundits you watch/read/listen to. Until you catch up on all 6 hearings thus far, and continue watching them as they unfold, nothing you can say about it has any merit. Are you a glutton for punishment or something? It's like arguing against a book you've never read or a movie you haven't seen. The least you can do is educate yourself on the matter with first hand knowledge.
So hearsay witnesses where they don’t even attempt to reach out and talk to the secret service agents that were there is normal and not at all proof of deception To you? Its amazing y’all still fall for this stuff after three years of them pushing the Russia conspiracy crap.
 
So hearsay witnesses where they don’t even attempt to reach out and talk to the secret service agents that were there is normal and not at all proof of deception To you? Its amazing y’all still fall for this stuff after three years of them pushing the Russia conspiracy crap.
This is NOT a trial! Hearsay isn’t a “thing” here. Incidentally, those focusing on the veracity of the SUV testimony are missing the big picture. First, she openly states that she is recounting a version of events told to her by the secret service agent. If he or the USSS want to answer questions, under oath, they should do so to refute any inaccuracies.

Notice though that no one has pushed back on the most damning testimony, which is that Trump knew the people coming to see him were armed; knew that they weren’t there for him; he demanded that they take down metal detectors to allow more of them in; he knew these armed protesters were going to head to the capitol; he fully planned to take part in the protest, with it becoming clear that he was going to attempt to physically walk into the chamber to disrupt the EV count. He also had knowledge that by sending out the tweet about Pence refusing to go along with the plan, he literally sent the mob after him, hoping that if Pence (or any other senior leaders) were either captured/killed, he’d easily declare martial law and keep himself in power.

The color commentary about the ketchup/plate, grabbing at steering wheel, etc. would not change the narrative if they were thrown out.

More than enough evidence has been put forward to at least indict him on several charges; whether Garland has the balls to do it, I don’t know. Given that J6C will not wrap up until end of this month, the window to make a meaningful move grows smaller.

Sounds like more witnesses are coming forward which has the potential to —depending on what they’re able to corroborate—guarantee Trump’s indictment on the other side of the committee.
 
This is NOT a trial! Hearsay isn’t a “thing” here. Incidentally, those focusing on the veracity of the SUV testimony are missing the big picture. First, she openly states that she is recounting a version of events told to her by the secret service agent. If he or the USSS want to answer questions, under oath, they should do so to refute any inaccuracies.

Notice though that no one has pushed back on the most damning testimony, which is that Trump knew the people coming to see him were armed; knew that they weren’t there for him; he demanded that they take down metal detectors to allow more of them in; he knew these armed protesters were going to head to the capitol; he fully planned to take part in the protest, with it becoming clear that he was going to attempt to physically walk into the chamber to disrupt the EV count. He also had knowledge that by sending out the tweet about Pence refusing to go along with the plan, he literally sent the mob after him, hoping that if Pence (or any other senior leaders) were either captured/killed, he’d easily declare martial law and keep himself in power.

The color commentary about the ketchup/plate, grabbing at steering wheel, etc. would not change the narrative if they were thrown out.

More than enough evidence has been put forward to at least indict him on several charges; whether Garland has the balls to do it, I don’t know. Given that J6C will not wrap up until end of this month, the window to make a meaningful move grows smaller.

Sounds like more witnesses are coming forward which has the potential to —depending on what they’re able to corroborate—guarantee Trump’s indictment on the other side of the committee.
Can you at least see how putting a persons testimony, as the feature no less, that is easily proven to be a lie, by those secret service men, might not be super affective at convincing those that are already skeptical of political theater in general? How easy would it have been for a committee with subpoena power, that’s ‘looking for the truth of what happened‘ to simply reach out to those involved. All they did was make a click bait title, that was red meat for the base, but only hurt the very thing they were trying to accomplish. To those of us skeptical of the establishmen/corporations this type of stuff is just bat shit insane tbh
 
dr. j! there's a name i've not seen for a while. hello old timer!

"her testimony is nothing but hearsay" is just a lazy, inaccurate analysis intended to discredit her testimony. it's no better than "the election was stolen" and other massive, over-simplistic generalizations which attempt to sow doubt because, on deeper analysis, the issue can't be discussed, and arguments can't be won, on their merits.

you just have to look at trump's twitter reaction to know that an awful lot of what she said was spot on.

alasdair
 
Wing nuttery lmao, a person that is that easily proven to be lying is the biggest take away from this show trial. Its essentially impeachment number three, ultimately they are just trying to get him to not run, since they feel Biden is the only person they can run against him. And with bidens failing mental faculties, it’s not realistic. Even if they bring back Covid and do the weekend at bernies thing again where they keep him the basement, I still don’t think it’s possible.
 
dr. j! there's a name i've not seen for a while. hello old timer!

"her testimony is nothing but hearsay" is just a lazy, inaccurate analysis intended to discredit her testimony. it's no better than "the election was stolen" and other massive, over-simplistic generalizations which attempt to sow doubt because, on deeper analysis, the issue can't be discussed, and arguments can't be won, on their merits.

you just have to look at trump's twitter reaction to know that an awful lot of what she said was spot on.

alasdair
Greetings and salutations! It’s been a hot minute, hasn’t it? Been lurking and a few posts today I just couldn’t resist stepping in and adding my thoughts.
 
Can you at least see how putting a persons testimony, as the feature no less, that is easily proven to be a lie, by those secret service men, might not be super affective at convincing those that are already skeptical of political theater in general? How easy would it have been for a committee with subpoena power, that’s ‘looking for the truth of what happened‘ to simply reach out to those involved. All they did was make a click bait title, that was red meat for the base, but only hurt the very thing they were trying to accomplish. To those of us skeptical of the establishmen/corporations this type of stuff is just bat shit insane tbh
First, that one piece was not what people were meant to take away from her testimony. The J6C has already interviewed both Ornato and Engel. I’d love for Oranto to come testify, under oath, and explain if he is denying the events as she told them, why would he lie to her? Or, he could testify that he never told her of this exchange, however I suspect she or the committee has some receipts.

Again, Trump and his enablers are masters of distraction. They want to say, “who wouldn’t be angry about a stolen election and throw a plate at the wall.” And, initially the SS asserted Trump couldn’t have reached the front when video shows otherwise. Anonymous sources issuing denials don’t stand up to live, under oath testimony.

That said, even if the story isn’t 100% true, it’s irrelevant. She did not present it as something she witnesses but something that was told to her. Trump’s team is not pushing back on the most serious charges, which is Trump ordering the mags removed/turned off, acknowledging that the crowd was armed, and his knowledge/instruction that these armed insurrectionists would leave the Elipse and head to the Capitol where he planned to lead them.
 
It’s horrifying to me that there is that core 30% of establishment liberals that completely believes this hogwash. Ever since the Russia conspiracy, it’s just a continuation of that. Red meat for the establishment base, and building their narrative. Even when lied to, directly, without any nuance, there are still ‘butt acksually’ type responses defending the establishments story line. It’s so spooky to folx like me, it’s like the Q anon crap, but the horse shoe. Really believing people under duress are saying some truth where drunpf is finished, it’s so cringe and honesty Freaks me out. But the fact that there are still real liberals like Bob Dylan, brett wienstien, rfk jr etc.. helps me cope.
 
I honestly don't care about the political hoopla happening right now, i.e. the court case. It's clear that on Jan 6th the protestors could just walk into the White House, with minimal resistance. If it were a different administation, say Obama, the capitol would've been blockaded and armed to the teeth. There was plenty of warning.

At the same time... all the current hoopla has nothing to do with justice. It's just about making sure Trump can't successfully run in the next election, because you know he will try and likely win.
 
I honestly don't care about the political hoopla happening right now, i.e. the court case. It's clear that on Jan 6th the protestors could just walk into the White House, with minimal resistance. If it were a different administation, say Obama, the capitol would've been blockaded and armed to the teeth. There was plenty of warning.

At the same time... all the current hoopla has nothing to do with justice. It's just about making sure Trump can't successfully run in the next election, because you know he will try and likely win.
I’m not trying to beat a dead horse, but this isn’t a trial/court case. In fact, once the committee adjourns, nothing can or will happen unless DOJ moves forward with the unprecedented step of indicting a former president.

In addition, the protesters didn’t go anywhere near the White House on January 6. If it were any other administration, there’d be no need for security guards and blockades because no other administration has tried to overturn election results and upend the peaceful transfer of power. Ever. Trump did that.

And the goal from this committee is fact-finding, exposing the true events that lead up to January 6, and what changes can help avoid the possibility of a similar plan from succeeding in the future (e.g. reforming the Electoral Vote Count Act to remove any ambiguity in the process; defining deadlines and processes by which the “keys must be turned over to allow the incoming administration access to funds, offices, resources, etc.).

Personally, I hope that the testimony/evidence presented will be enough to ensure there is justice for those who are guilty of crimes committed; no one is above the law. I’m not attorney but as former Legal Q&A moderator(… LOL …) I suspect there is enough evidence here and, even more likely, in Georgia, to support criminal charges against Trump.

The chances of Trump running and winning are slipping… at least the winning part. And, if that looks to be a losing proposition (as other Republicans with less baggage get ready to enter the field, does he really want to risk being a primary loser??

I suspect he’s more intrigued by the ability to be immune from prosecution for 4 years, hand out more pardons, and further dismantle any remaining norms of our government. As many have said, Republicans included, he poses an existential threat to our country. His Supreme Court appointments alone have already taken a hammer to jurisprudence and have taken away the rights of millions of women. And they’re posed to do even more damage next term. (Did you know Thomas actually cited Dred Scott in his opinion ruling against the a state of New York’s gun restrictions? It’s nuts!)

To those who said the J6C wouldn’t/couldn’t possibly turn up other facts not already known cannot honestly defend this claim. The hearings have been well done, informative, and even compelling. We’ve yet to hear from the documentary team who had unfettered access leading up to and after the insurrection. This was news to almost everyone. Looking forward to those tapes as well as what new witnesses have come forward.
 

Ray epps still has yet to be charged with a crime 🤔. Glowies just doing what they do I reckon. Seems like he would be the perfect person For a show trial and state media to feature in their propaganda reels.
 
As a true believer, and Russia conspiracy theorist, I dont think you are capable of having a sober opinion on the subject. I don’t think many agreed with folx trespassing on the capital, but the whole insurrection narrative is certainly only a concern of those people that watch cable news and read establishment news. Probably around 20% of the population, at best. Most of us only care about the economy, which is in shambles atm

 

Ray epps still has yet to be charged with a crime 🤔. Glowies just doing what they do I reckon. Seems like he would be the perfect person For a show trial and state media to feature in their propaganda reels.
 
You write this entire explanation about how it’s not a trial and then @Dropperneck just follows it up with “Glowies just doing what they do I reckon. Seems like he would be the perfect person For a show trial and state media to feature in their propaganda reels.” 😑
is this kid a troll taking the piss?
This ^

I see him as nothing more than a troll. He has not watched any of the hearings and quotes satire sites like Babylon Bee, hearsay news I would call it, in order to justify his uneducated arguments. He has dug himself in because there have been 6 hearings at 2.5+ hours each and he prolly can't catch up now, his head would explode from the cognitive dissonance of seeing all the truth and evidence.
 
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