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IV Users.... Do you regret "picking up" the needle?

The question in the thread title doesn't seem to have sense in my opinion. Even if any do, what does that change? Even if you had a time machine, you would do the same thing again. I know I would. I don't inject anymore, there's nothing just about to happen to put me in a situation when I would say "I will never shoot again". I'm aware why I started doing drugs in general, I know why I'm not clean now. This doesn't actually relate to needle usage at all, it's such a ridiculously safe process that I don't know why this "crossing the border" is in some way different than inhaling vapors of brown sugar or smoking meth. No regrets and your life's going to be easier. If I related to every memory of some moments of the past, I'd die from regretting.
 
lev-
That's the thing though, even if there aren't a lot of relatively successful IV opiate users out there (and I'm sure there are way more than most people think-- users with high-profile lives just have more reason to keep their mouths shut), I still don't think that correlation between using IV drugs and fucking up life necessarily means causation. Whether or not someone turns out a fuckup depends on a lot more than their decision to use opiates (even though that decision may be something that fuckups and non-fuckups alike can both regret). People with established jobs/relationships/however you define success are probably a lot less inclined to start using than those with little to lose, but I'll always maintain that those who claim their life was ruined by drugs probably made at least a few other bad decisions in life in addition to the decision to use. Obviously its ridiculous to draw a line that says "this will ruin someone's life and this won't" but that seems to be the excuse I have to listen to most often when I'm waiting in line at the methadone clinic. I guess my point is that people should take more individual responsibility and regret every bad decision they make instead of just placing all the fault on drug use.
 
adder said:
The question in the thread title doesn't seem to have sense in my opinion. Even if any do, what does that change? Even if you had a time machine, you would do the same thing again. I know I would. I don't inject anymore, there's nothing just about to happen to put me in a situation when I would say "I will never shoot again". I'm aware why I started doing drugs in general, I know why I'm not clean now. This doesn't actually relate to needle usage at all, it's such a ridiculously safe process that I don't know why this "crossing the border" is in some way different than inhaling vapors of brown sugar or smoking meth. No regrets and your life's going to be easier. If I related to every memory of some moments of the past, I'd die from regretting.
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Most people don't use safe injecting techniques. Its NOT a ridiculously safe process. Street drugs are not sterile.
 
moogmania said:
lev-
That's the thing though, even if there aren't a lot of relatively successful IV opiate users out there (and I'm sure there are way more than most people think-- users with high-profile lives just have more reason to keep their mouths shut), I still don't think that correlation between using IV drugs and fucking up life necessarily means causation. Whether or not someone turns out a fuckup depends on a lot more than their decision to use opiates (even though that decision may be something that fuckups and non-fuckups alike can both regret). People with established jobs/relationships/however you define success are probably a lot less inclined to start using than those with little to lose, but I'll always maintain that those who claim their life was ruined by drugs probably made at least a few other bad decisions in life in addition to the decision to use. Obviously its ridiculous to draw a line that says "this will ruin someone's life and this won't" but that seems to be the excuse I have to listen to most often when I'm waiting in line at the methadone clinic. I guess my point is that people should take more individual responsibility and regret every bad decision they make instead of just placing all the fault on drug use.
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I don't believe in the successful IV opiate user myth. Sure there are a few people who lead that kind of lifestyle, but they are outliers that do not represent the real picture of IV opiate life. If you want to see the reality of IV opiates, just drive around in some neighbourhoods in some large American cities like Detroit, Philadelphia etc. Can you show me a rich neighbourhood where one in a hundred people would be a successful IV opiate user (I would imagine more than 1 in hundred shoot dope in 'the hood')?

Look I also think that people should take responsibility for their actions - but you're attitude that IV H use is the same thing as eating candy isn't particularly constructive. You can't deny that being physically/mentally addicted to IV H use is going to change your cost benefit analysis with regards to shooting H vs doing everything else in life? Sure, it's the person's responsibility that they got into H in the first place, fair enough. So what next? Opiates are a highly addictive class of substance that will often change how you see the world (I don't give fuck about anything as long as I get my daily shot) and people often have problems with quitting them even if they do want to quit. I am not even going to start about potential medical complications associated with IV use and physical addiction.

You say that we need more personal responsibility - okay let's have more personal responsibility - what next? What's the big deal about this personal responsibility that is going change everything? Is repeating "more personal responsibility" a million times going to magically making the dangerous aspects of IV opiate use magically disappear?

I don't even mind if people shoot up everyday and dedicate their lives to getting high and doing stuff to get $$$ to buy dope. I really don't. I think people often need to able to see the error of their ways on their own in order to have the motivation to make meaning changes in their lives.

But I do mind, when people get casual about about IV opiate use. It's not just another drug (just like smoking meth or crack)/ROI. It's a serious fucking decision that could result in completely forgetting about your own aims in life.
 
levictus said:
I don't believe in the successful IV opiate user myth. Sure there are a few people who lead that kind of lifestyle, but they are outliers that do not represent the real picture of IV opiate life. If you want to see the reality of IV opiates, just drive around in some neighbourhoods in some large American cities like Detroit, Philadelphia etc. Can you show me a rich neighbourhood where one in a hundred people would be a successful IV opiate user (I would imagine more than 1 in hundred shoot dope in 'the hood')?

Look I also think that people should take responsibility for their actions - but you're attitude that IV H use is the same thing as eating candy isn't particularly constructive. You can't deny that being physically/mentally addicted to IV H use is going to change your cost benefit analysis with regards to shooting H vs doing everything else in life? Sure, it's the person's responsibility that they got into H in the first place, fair enough. So what next? Opiates are a highly addictive class of substance that will often change how you see the world (I don't give fuck about anything as long as I get my daily shot) and people often have problems with quitting them even if they do want to quit. I am not even going to start about potential medical complications associated with IV use and physical addiction.

You say that we need more personal responsibility - okay let's have more personal responsibility - what next? What's the big deal about this personal responsibility that is going change everything? Is repeating "more personal responsibility" a million times going to magically making the dangerous aspects of IV opiate use magically disappear?

I don't even mind if people shoot up everyday and dedicate their lives to getting high and doing stuff to get $$$ to buy dope. I really don't. I think people often need to able to see the error of their ways on their own in order to have the motivation to make meaning changes in their lives.

But I do mind, when people get casual about about IV opiate use. It's not just another drug (just like smoking meth or crack)/ROI. It's a serious fucking decision that could result in completely forgetting about your own aims in life.
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Obviously IV opiates are dangerous, destructive and uncontrollably addictive. Anyone whose tried them should have a pretty good idea of the seriousness of that drug-- if they think its candy (which I never think I even came close to alluding to) then they're straight up delusional.
All I was trying to say is that people need to stop replacing proactive change with their regret for drug use-- the exact thing you said in the second to last paragraph of your last post.
Do I think that the majority of IV users are doctors/lawyers/CEOs etc? Fuck no! But I'm sure there are some. You said 'personal responsibility' 3 times but never even realized how big a deal that idea really is-- The idea that people are 100% powerless over the lives for any reason, including drug use, is fundamentally flawed, and the first step to anyone changing their situation is realizing this. Drugs do influence many peoples decisions, but I'm sure most the people on this board never killed a cancer patient or robbed a pharmacy for their next fix-- people understand the consequences to their actions. Why, then, should drug use be an acceptable excuse for someone dropping out of school? (the original person I was replying to) However, I don't, in any way, see how someone taking their own actions into account could be construed as advocating opiate use as danger-free.
Drugs are dangerous. Drug use can lead people to make bad decisions. If people realize that they, and not just the drugs, are making bad decisions then maybe they'll be inspired to take more positive steps like harm reduction or more responsible use. The alternative seems to be the mindset of fucking up every day with nothing more than the excuse of "I'm on drugs-- I regret it, but what else can I do?"
 
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moogmania said:
Obviously IV opiates are dangerous, destructive and uncontrollably addictive. Anyone whose tried them should have a pretty good idea of the seriousness of that drug-- if they think its candy (which I never think I even came close to alluding to) then they're straight up delusional.
All I was trying to say is that people need to stop replacing proactive change with their regret for drug use-- the exact thing you said in the second to last paragraph of your last post.
Do I think that the majority of IV users are doctors/lawyers/CEOs etc? Fuck no! But I'm sure there are some. You said 'personal responsibility' 3 times but never even realized how big a deal that idea really is-- The idea that people are 100% powerless over the lives for any reason, including drug use, is fundamentally flawed, and the first step to anyone changing their situation is realizing this. Drugs do influence many peoples decisions, but I'm sure most the people on this board never killed a cancer patient or robbed a pharmacy for their next fix-- people understand the consequences to their actions. Why, then, should drug use be an acceptable excuse for someone dropping out of school? (the original person I was replying to) However, I don't, in any way, see how someone taking their own actions into account could be construed as advocating opiate use as danger-free.
Drugs are dangerous. Drug use can lead people to make bad decisions. If people realize that they, and not just the drugs, are making bad decisions then maybe they'll be inspired to take more positive steps like harm reduction or more responsible use. The alternative seems to be the mindset of fucking up every day with nothing more than the excuse of "I'm on drugs-- I regret it, but what else can I do?"
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I think we are largely agree with each other, just we are approaching this issue from different sides. I just don't want people to have their lives ruined by thinking that all it takes is personal responsibility to manage IV opiate use. But yeah, I do agree you shouldn't just blame the drugs alone for your failures...
 
sandow said:
I dont' understand how people can sink to using toilet water, gatorade or snow from the side of the road in order to make a shot. I do not understand either poster blaming using a needle for their screwed up choices and methods for using drugs, that is strictly on you, not the drug or the route of administration. To blame your unsanitary usage on being poor and then disparage the "upper middle class" user who actually purchases water to shoot their drugs with is just downright pathetic.

I have been banging dope on and off for a good 15 years. I never got anything from my family and have worked since I was 14 years old. Even during my worst days of addiction, I managed to maintain a job in order to pay for my habit, and when I was unemployed, my dope use would get restricted to a bare minimum and I would sell what I had in order to get what I needed, but I would never maintain a huge habit, unless I had the money to pay for that habit. It would not matter how sick I was, or where I was, I could always find, or wait to find a clean source of water and semi-sterile conditions to shoot up in. I would use a blunt needle, and it would hurt like hell, but I have never ever, and could never be desperate enough to consider some of the things that I have read.
i will never condemn anyone for using any drug and they can use it however they chose. In most countries there are a certain amount of risk that is inherent with any type of drug addiction due to our misguided criminal war on drug users, which treats mental illness as a criminal offense, but that is not the issue. The issue is, all drug users have to engage in some fairly risky behavior simply because the substance is illegal. This however does not provide one a free pass to blame all of their bad decisions and all of their problems on a drug, yes the drug makes some conduct almost impossible to avoid, but others, like using toilet water to shoot up, rest solely on the shoulders of the participant.

Does shooting make the addiction more intense, absolutely. It changes everything about your addiction, there is definitely an urgency present that was never there before and the sickness could have you praying for death rather than live another second with the unbearable pain and misery that WDs bring on. But the addiction does not change who you are at your core, you are always you, drugs just show you what you are capable of becoming. I have known otherwise good people who went to from living a farily decent life to being down and out in about 6 months. i have known other users who have maintained habits for years with no real ill effects, it comes down to who you are and what you are willing to do in order to get high. If you have enough money to cop dope you should have enough money to get a $1 bottle of water, or hey maybe find a public restroom that has a sink? Better yet, wait until you get home, what a novel concept. I hate being all sanctimonious, but I hate people blaming all of their problems on their addiction or the drug, the truth is you probably had a lot of problems with self control long before you started using a needle, so maybe you want to examine your self a bit better and stop blaming the drug.
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You can sit there and say you hate people blaming the drugs but that is the reason I have done some of the things I have. You are one of the lucky few to IV so long and not lose it. But for me its not the same, I already have a very addictive personality and I used to be the one to say I would never do that. I would even give my friends pills if I thought they would shoot. But after I did start I lost control. My life now revolves around getting high, it didn't start that way but was years in the making and why don't I wait to get home and be clean and safe? Because I get so sick sometimes that I will be sitting there in the parking lot vomiting trying not to drop a deuce in my pants and when I get those in my hands I'm not going all the way back home. Now I don't want to sound like I have shot toilet water all the time, I usually go to clean places and hit the handicap stall with a sink. But I have been in certain bathrooms where there was too many people and I had nothing to put water in beside my cooker or my plunger cap and Im not going to fill those and walk past everyone while at the bus station where there is guards and police on site. I would rather take the risk. And sometimes when you are doing whatever you can to score than you just don't have the extra few dollars to go buy new rigs or a $1.50 bottle of water. Just don't act so high and mighty because you were able to maintain well for so long. Talk like that helps people justify what they are doing, when really the chances are that if you start Iving drugs nothing good will come out of it.
 
love2party said:
Most people don't use safe injecting techniques. Its NOT a ridiculously safe process. Street drugs are not sterile.
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And people do choose to pick up a needle for tablets as well which isn't healthy either. Generally speaking, what addicts choose to shoot, isn't sterile but keep in mind not everyone is addicted to something that traveled thousands of kilometers before being sold. Also, sometimes you can choose the lesser of two evils (here it would be shooting brown heroin vs. Polish "kompot").

Concerning that "ridiculously safe process" thing, I mean it's not hard to learn to inject safely. If one can do that, it's safer than i.m. injection but that can be also learned. I also did injections of various drugs in ampules prescribed to a few people having learned to do it properly and they didn't feel any pain associated with it (calling up a nurse and showing a bit of your butt to a stranger isn't great, is it? %)).
 
Im stickin with my guns here. If you use a clean rig, which is entirely possible here (easy to get clean rigs) there is not much wrong with it. Esp in the meth scene. I mean, you can either smoke it and fuck up your and teeth and lungs, or you can inject it with a clean rig and do less damage and get way more high faster.

But with Heroin, its different. Its so easy to overdose once you get onto the needle. Ive noticed I never overdose instantly, I peacefully nod off later and wake up to my friend slapping me.
 
Yes, with heroin it's not instant. It's like you still have time to hide your needle and things and get your belt back in pants... And that's it if you did too much. I remember it once took like 30 minutes to get my consciousness back with pouring water on my head and slapping me. I ended up smoking a cigarette on a bus stop in an infamous position when you're not standing but you're not lying yet either. Anyway, I've been worse during great times of morphine... And you know what? I seriously didn't mind dying any of those times.
 
kev-
I know exactly what you mean. I was prescribed suboxone for 3 months (and bought on the street in desperate situations after that) and it really did make drug use much less stressful. I would still wait it out as long as I could before taking my bupe, but if I knew I wasn't gonna be able to get anything good that day it was such a relief knowing I wouldn't have to deal with the pain of WD as punishment. Around the same time I started bupe therapy my friend started (absolute definition of "suburban" kid) started snorting oxys. Eventually he got a pretty good habit going and whenever he started to detox I always threw him a few subs (always had plenty to spare/trade). One day I realized that this kid went straight to some of the best drugs in the world without ever having to really suffer the pains associated with a real opiate addiction. I knew he would never take it as seriously as he should until he experienced what it was like to be going without and on your own. Of course as soon as I told him about this he told his parents and they got him his own script for subs right away.
I am sure that soon enough he will learn to regret drugs just the same, but I can see what you mean about the dangers of people like that underestimating the awesome power of opiates.
 
Yes, after injecting and feeling an awesome rush, your mind starts to wonder " what else is injectable?" and you keep thinking you can bang everything. My decision to use the needle has lead me to dark places, then made irrational decisions on things I shouldn't inject.

It's lead me to certain drugs, and certain groups of people who also uses the needle, and they have burned me, took advantage of me, ripped me off. Not your typical caring raver who cares about the meaning of peace, love, unity, respect. Those people I've assoicated with who used the needle are the opposite of that.

I could had been much better off had I just stuck with ecstasy and ravers, at least they don't rip me off, burn me etc...
Lucky for me I've gotten off the needle, and away from that lifestyle, and no plans on repeating my needle days.

-PLUR
 
cant say for sure i got serious health problems from IV/SC/IM (ODs, stroke, seizures) but i dont feel like i regret i did it by myself. i believe if u fuck wit ur body u gotta prepare urself for the consequences.
 
@candyraver


So true once that needle taboo is broken theres no going back and you do indeed start the occasional "non opiate" injection, where before you'd have just dropped the powder/pill.
Imo i also think injecting of a drug makes it far more addictive and harder to give up in the end. The ritual involved is just so inticing and is burned into an addicts memory forever. Who after giving up ,has seen a 1ml insulin , or a swab and then had the most intense cravings for a hit?
 
There is a difference between "blaming the drug" for the shit you do, and recognizing that using the drug does, absolutely, physically and psychologically change you in many ways and when you change like that, the type of person u are and the shit u will do and consider doin , is different than the person you used to be.
 
lacey k said:
There is a difference between "blaming the drug" for the shit you do, and recognizing that using the drug does, absolutely, physically and psychologically change you in many ways and when you change like that, the type of person u are and the shit u will do and consider doin , is different than the person you used to be.
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So true...its not the drug's fault. It's the people who use the drugs, alter their mind and perceptions and then make the decisions they do and have to face the consequences of that decision.
 
I have been i.ving for 4 yrs now my skin hides imperfecion though or i wouldn't do it, it does seem to make you conscious what others see and how people look at you and what they may be looking at....meaning marks on the arms but it does by far maximize the whole high, if I had small veins and i wouldnt bother....anyone have a good way to help out a collasped vein..? also with oxy coontin anyone know if besides pure h20 if there is a better liquid to add to make the oxy liquid hit you harder? i heard lemon juice and vinegar with black tar would that amplify my high?
 
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