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Harm Reduction IV MDPV -- sudden onset of numbness in extremities during a binge?

C

CapitalSigma

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
7
A friend (genuinely not myself, talking via skype) has, been indulging a touch in the PV lately. We're about 24 hours into the binge so far. As this is a final fling of sorts, I brought up the idea of IVing a touch to see what the difference in the rush is like, sometime before we run out. We are both already IV users, so this was nothing groundbreaking.

He happened to have the gear at his house while separately went off for a night on PV and clonazepam. Last dose of clonazepam on his part was 4mg over the course of 12-4 or so yesterday afternoon. Consumption of the PV was mostly smoked intensely throughout the night, capped off by 1 relatively small dose of PV IV'ly, done half at a time.

About 5 minutes after the shot, he complained of numbness in the extremities so bad that he could barely walk. (This later turned out to be caused mostly by having his laptop sitting on his legs for a few hours, and it went away pretty quickly after he started walking around). Another 1mg of clonazepam couldn't have done his heart any harm at this point, so he took that to cushion any blows.

All this was about an hour ago. He still says that his fingers feel numb and stiff, so there's clearly still quite alot of vasoconstriction going on. He's aiming to lay off the PV for at least the next few hours, until the numbness (hopefully) subsides.

Is there any immediate danger to be worried about here? If he continues taking PV for another 12 hours or so keeping the dose low and primarily insufflated, are there any serious issues to worry about? Gangrene and losing fingers and stuff like that?
 
Large amounts of vasoconstriction can cause permanent damage. Yes, gangrene and losing fingers and legs and stuff like that. Serious issues for sure.

I would tell your friend to stop MDPV now and seek professional medical advice. There's no way for us to tell if they're going to be "just fine" or anything like that, but, either way, they should stop taking MDPV now.
 
How long should the PV be laid off of to be safe? After a night's sleep? After the numbness disappears?

Are there any obvious "alarm bell" symptoms of a vasoconstrictive problem that requires medical attention?


After my first heavy PV use, I had numbness in my toes that didn't completely go away for three months. I thought nothing of it at the time. After stumbling on a PV horror story about gangrene that didn't become evident until weeks later, I counted myself very lucky.
 
Probably for a few weeks, if not longer, just to prevent this from happening again, and so that maybe one day you could still use it recreationally without going overboard.

Maybe you get a week or two away from it and realize it's just not that great of a drug, who knows....

I just think it would be better to not go back to doing this. Harm reduction wise, it would be better not to. There are much safer drugs that could be done instead.
 
I swore off the smoking already as the high seems to be nonexistant, kills grams in a matter of days, and seems to have much worse side effects than insufflation (which lasts longer, and doesn't kill your nose too badly at all). As a drug, it's value is debatable, but to each his own.

No words of wisdom as to signs that vasoconstriction has become a pressing medical issue?

I poked around medical reports of overdoses of meth and cocaine (to make a note of "presented with X symptom.... lost a hand"), but everyone was long dead of a heart attack before vasoconstriction mattered. Any thoughts on what would be a good way to find some info on this, if it's not readily available?
 
I have taken aspirin, and sometimes inhaled a small amount of amyl nitrite in these spots before as both are vaso-dilators. They've certainly helped with any feeling of discomfort. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THIS IS ADVISABLE THOUGH in terms of interactions. I'll give way to my more knowledgeable BlueLighters to comment.
 
I NUK3D U said:
I have taken aspirin, and sometimes inhaled a small amount of amyl nitrite in these spots before as both are vaso-dilators. They've certainly helped with any feeling of discomfort. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THIS IS ADVISABLE THOUGH in terms of interactions. I'll give way to my more knowledgeable BlueLighters to comment.
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I think that taking aspirin as prophylaxis is generally a good idea. However, most of my info is showing that aspirin attenuates vasodilation. In other words, it is not a vasodilator. Nuked...sources on aspirin as vasodilator?
 
Rusted Chains said:
I think that taking aspirin as prophylaxis is generally a good idea. However, most of my info is showing that aspirin attenuates vasodilation. In other words, it is not a vasodilator. Nuked...sources on aspirin as vasodilator?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was confusing effects with MOA. Aspirin is known to thin the blood (I believe), which I've found to relieve the tension caused by vasoconstriction. I'm not aware of it being an actual vasodilator.
 
^^ Don't think it thins, or lowers the viscocity, of blood. My understanding is that it mostly inhibits platelett aggregation and clotting. Don't know if it'd be efficatious for the OP in this case though.

Seems that hot pepper powder, or anything containing capsaicin, works as a vasodilator. Fish oil is also a good idea IMO. OP could find these items in the cupboard or local store and are available without prescription:).
 
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Yes, I have gelcaps of cayenne sitting around for just that reason.

I've tried aspirin in the form of Excedrin in the past. It didn't seem to help much, and I get very worried about the stress aspirin puts on the kidneys. Most reports of permanent damage from mdpv use seem to involve renal damage, and there seems to be a great danger of popping large amounts of it during the course of a binge, due to a distorted sense of time.

I bought some poppers for the same reason, a little while back. I think they are a really, really bad idea to combine with MDPV. They expand the area around your heart and put your heart rate THROUGH THE ROOF, even while sober. They are generally not recommended for use alongside your standard stimulants like coke. They can also contribute to damaging your kidneys. I also felt that it placed a lot of stress on the body to have your blood pressure bouncing around in a matter of minutes, though I never really found any evidence to support it.

I've tried most of the recommended combinations on I could find on this forum and a few others and I've mostly given up on them. I stuck with the cayenne for quite a while but it had me popping tums/pepto to get rid of heart burn, and a few mornings I woke up with crippling pains in my stomach after taking too much. It never seemed to make too much of a difference, anyway. The only thing that seemed effective was a low dose of benzos or opiates to chill out the heart a little bit.

I'm aware of whats out there in terms of potential OTC remedies, anyway. I have never been able to find any info about how to know when they've failed and an immediate trip to the hospital is called for. Spots of numbness and lightheadedness are par for the course on stimulant binges, but is there any way to tell when things have seriously gone wrong?
 
That used to happen to me all the time.Aspirin helps a lot, and especially prior to injecting, aspirin seems to prevent chest pains and numbness. But if it's been going on a while...that's not good.Everyone's advice is good, just take a middle ground on goin to the hospital. Definantly go eventually if it doesn't resolve. but I'll tell ya from experience, I have stayed up many a night, with difficulty walking/holding thngs because of numbness, along with chest pain and other shit, but it always turned out fine with home remedies and time.Most importantly, and I cannot stress this enough, DO NOT PANIC OR STRESS YOURSELF OUT! Especially so since your on stimulants, your liable to make things worst for yourself. But it's been a while since you posted, you should be fine by now. But for future reference...
 
CapitalSigma said:
but is there any way to tell when things have seriously gone wrong?
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ye, when you have to ask q's like this on a forum 8)

but seriously MDPV is NOT worth it for these cardiac/vasoconstriction reasons. I binged on this stuff and took a vasodilator (Cialis) and promptly had a serious cardiac event passed out and could not move with HUGE chest pain for 4 hours. I had an ECG test and now have a sinus arrhythmia and need further testing to see if I did have a heart attack or not clearly some cardiac shit happened, be it myocardial infarction, aortic rupture, just angina or a coronary artery spasm.

So, I threw the crap away, mate not worth it. When I know more about causes, ie vasoconstriction and dilation and compensatory blood pressure adjustments, and what happened I may write a thread.
 
and also saying take aspirin is fine won't cause any harm, I agree, but to assume it is a total insulator against problems would be foolish. As would in my opinion seeking OTC vasodilators when you don't really know what is happening and what effect a vasodilator would have when mixed with constriction from MDPV.
 
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