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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel is under attack

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someguyontheinternet said:
Excellent counter, whataboutism rather than anything tangible
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Oh lord, can you please refer back to the link I posted about whataboutism?

I was directly addressing your point about why I have the gall to question an organization who has more credentials than I do. In doing that, I made reference to another recent situation that illustrated my point. That isn't whataboutism.
 
"Israel has maintained military rule over some portion of the Palestinian population for all but six months of its 73-year history. It did so over the vast majority of Palestinians inside Israel from 1948 and until 1966. From 1967 until the present, it has militarily ruled over Palestinians in the OPT, excluding East Jerusalem. By contrast, it has since its founding governed all Jewish Israelis, including settlers in the OPT since the beginning of the occupation in 1967, under its more rights-respecting civil law."

"For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards."

www.hrw.org

A Threshold Crossed

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and...
www.hrw.org www.hrw.org
 
Yea and that's the entire point. Israel is exerting control over a population that they do not consider citizens of their country, they are exerting control over Gaza and the west bank. Did you genuinely think people were talking about those who are considered Israeli citizens? What do you think this whole thing is about?
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Yea and that's the entire point. Israel is exerting control over a population that they do not consider citizens of their country, they are exerting control over Gaza and the west bank. Did you genuinely think people were talking about those who are considered Israeli citizens? What do you think this whole thing is about?
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Israel would like nothing more than for the Palestinians to get their shit together and elect an actual government. You know, instead of an Islamist death cult. Start using their mountains of aid money to become a legitimate country instead of building terror tunnels and enriching terrorist kingpins.

There are good reasons the security measures are there... obviously. We've been over this a million times.
 
So you think it's acceptable for a government to maintain a database of citizens of a different country and control their borders and the movement of the people? In fact they actually don't consider Palestine to be sovereign which is the basis of the occupation. Is it acceptable for the IDF to be backing up violent settlers in the west bank pushing indigenous Palestinians out of their homes? Selling those stolen homes on the open market? These are all things that prevent Palestinians from, as you put it, "getting their shit together"
 
someguyontheinternet said:
So you think it's acceptable for a government to maintain a database of citizens of a different country and control their borders and the movement of the people?
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When that "country" has terrorists for leaders that relentlessly attack your country , I think that's reasonable yes. They actually used to allow much freer movement and some of those people gathered info to give to Hamas that they then used against Israel on Oct7. That's what I read a while back, don't remember the source right off. They allowed some of them to cross the border to work and they scoped shit out and whatnot.

I mean, what do you expect Israel to do? Just tear down the border and have no security there? Allow Hamas to freely receive weapons from Iran? Suuuure... that sounds rational.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
How about allowing them to have food and not "put them on a diet" as collective punishment?
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We've been over this already. It is reasonable to provide acceptable levels of sustenance to the population when you are at war. You are not obligated to help feed the enemy who brutally attacked you.

If Hamas hordes those rations and their people suffer, well, that is just par for the course right?

Why haven't you ever devoted any of your posts to criticizing Hamas and their role in all of this? Seems like if you aren't using a buzz word like collective punishment, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, etc to slander Israel you have very little to say.

Why not just surrender the hostages? Why haven't they accepted the deal?

Where are your marches and college encampments for that?
 
Snafu in the Void said:
This war is going to be ugly for decades to come, whatever happens.

Is Israel going to have another 20 year "war on terrorism" like three US did? It seems absurd to repeat that.

Why are humans killing each other over religion in 21st century?
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20 years, Israel has been attacked and Jews persecuted for thousands of years.
They are killing because as Nasser said" Push them into the sea". They ( Israel) are surrounded by people who want a second Holocaust.
 
Jnowhere said:
This is just plain antisemitism and all this anti- zionist propaganda is nothing more than jew hating bigots using the turmoil in the middle east as a way to spread their hate. The hatred towards the jews really seems to be on the rise. This is the 21st century and this crap is going on, not good.
Antisemitism is going on with little opposition it appears and this is very disturbing.
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Why would it be a problem that it's difficult to hold an ancient dumb religious belief? There are many beliefs that are socially challenging to express without ppl crying about it. This is obviously entirely because judaism is popular and is a world religion, not because it's a good idea in any concrete sense.

Nobody cries about "anti-[my yellow toothbrush is in fact purple]-ism" and stuff like that. What about anti-alien-remains-on-earth-realism? Anti-flat-earthism?

The right to express stupid or whacky ideas in public without suffering ridicule or condemnation is not generally a strong moral point to make. But insert religion and people seem to feel like they need to pretend to give a shit.
 
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Just imagine "anti-flying-spaghetti-monster-ism". Does it sound like a problem?

We as outsiders should be invested in this conflict simply in the interest of minimizing all violence. Not as faux advocates of a silly faith that isn't ours.

In the interest of minimizing all violence, placing Israel there to begin with was a dumb move. And the muslims keep going with what they know. And here we are.
 
Abraham, Issac, Jacob= Jews
Abraham, Ishmael = Arabs
Also Abraham was the father of many other nations or peoples.
So you Mjall are saying the Arabs are not a people but a religion?
I guess this is over your head
 
Mjäll said:
Why would it be a problem that it's difficult to hold an ancient dumb religious belief? There are many beliefs that are socially challenging to express without ppl crying about it. This is obviously entirely because judaism is popular and is a world religion, not because it's a good idea in any concrete sense.

Nobody cries about "anti-[my yellow toothbrush is in fact purple]-ism" and stuff like that. What about anti-alien-remains-on-earth-realism? Anti-flat-earthism?

The right to express stupid or whacky ideas in public without suffering ridicule or condemnation is not generally a strong moral point to make. But insert religion and people seem to feel like they need to pretend to give a shit.
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Hey, there aren't that many Jews. And they are a people, a nation. Just like Arabs aren't a religion.
Jews, and their religion are tied together, but they are an ethnic group, except for the few converts and fake ones. Abraham, Issac and Jacob?
Plenty of Jews who are atheists, and some who are a part of other religions.
 
Jnowhere said:
Hey, there aren't that many Jews. And they are a people, a nation. Just like Arabs aren't a religion.
Jews, and their religion are tied together, but they are an ethnic group, except for the few converts and fake ones. Abraham, Issac and Jacob?
Plenty of Jews who are atheists, and some who are a part of other religions.
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Antisemitism means anti-judaism. The "not just a religion" thing is a cope. Jewish people are not ethnically homogenous, united instead by creed. Can't have the cake and eat it too. Can't have a protective label for your woo woo religion legitimized as "ethnic" and a biological fact when there is no basis for such a thing.


Why would they care about protecting a religious label if they're atheists?
 
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